Girlfriend can't pull the trigger on my SP101 more than once - Page 2

jephthai · January 31, 2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

...every guitar player on earth was using those. Many ended up with arthritis or tendonitis.

You're sure this was the grip master and not the guitar playing?

bluetopper · January 31, 2009, 01:16 AM

What's wrong with having her cock it with her thumb and shooting it single action? She should shoot it more accurately that way anyway.

pax · January 31, 2009, 01:29 AM

parisite ~

For a defense gun, that's a dangerous act.

1) It takes time -- time the person may not have to spare when attacked.

2) If she cocks the gun and the attacker immediately surrenders, she cannot righteously shoot him. This leaves a shaky, adrenalized, poorly trained individual holding an attacker at gunpoint with a gun that has a superlight trigger. That's a recipe for an accidental shooting -- one that could put her behind bars for life as a murderer, or cost her family everything they own because of her negligence.

3) If she cocks the gun and doesn't immediately fire, she'll need to find a way to safely lower the hammer. This can be done easily when the shooter isn't under stress. But it's definitely and undoubtedly, no question, a fine-motor skill. Again, after an adrenalin dump is not the time to be performing a fine motor skill like that -- especially if, as in this case, the shooter isn't exactly well trained to begin with.

4) It gives her a superlight trigger, good for shooting -- but it also opens her up to an enthusiastically wrong prosecutor trying to make a name for himself by pursuing charges for manslaughter with the "theory of the case" that the shooter actually lied about defending herself, and instead claimed self-defense after accidentally shooting the "poor misunderstood youth" with her hair trigger gun!!

There are more. Those are some of the biggies.

pax

tmbrcruizr · January 31, 2009, 06:09 AM

I polished the internals on my sp101 357, and did not change any springs. It made a world of difference. I would do that first. I used da wife's sp101 9mm as the control, and could tell a big difference in them. Da wife didn't want me to take her gun apart,said it 'worked' just fine the way it was.

**Tom Servo** · January 31, 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

You're sure this was the grip master and not the guitar playing?

That just hurt the ears

No, I worked with a guy who got what we'd call RSI these days, and the doctors blamed the grip master. Like a few people I knew, however, he went completely overboard with it. Nothing wrong with using it: the trick is not to overdo it to the point of pain.

BlkHawk73 · January 31, 2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

So I picked up this 3" SP101 in the hopes of finally getting my girlfriend a gun she could use to protect herself

Ahh yes, nothing like making the decision for her.

You pick her clothes and stuff too or is she able to choose what make her comfirtbale? Same thing should be done with firearms as well. SHE should have chosen what SHE wanted, what felt comfrtable to HER and what SHE could easily manipulate.
It's such an importnat thing for her to have the tools to protect herself yet SHE can't decide what SHE'LL use.

Let me guess, she'll not get any professional training either? :barf:

**JohnKSa** · January 31, 2009, 08:41 AM

Quote:

The Mall ninjas might not like this tip, but one of Tyler's trigger shoes might help.

Trigger shoes make a trigger FEEL lighter but do nothing to actually lighten the pull weight. If she's actually having her finger give out as a result of pulling the trigger (as opposed to just being unhappy with the feel) then a trigger shoe will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Quote:

Maybe in the old days but now he spring weight is determined by the corporate lawyers. You can easily step down to a spring a couple of pounds below factory weight without any change in reliability on a revolver.

The trigger return spring weight may be lawyer mandated, but the mainspring weight is calculated to insure that every gun off the line will reliably pop any primer currently on the market regardless of manufacturing variations, regardless of whether it's used SA or DA (yes, that does make a difference) and to insure that it will continue to do so even after a reasonable amount of wear to the pistol.

Lightening the trigger return spring is usually a safe thing to do as long as it's not taken too far, but lightening the mainspring always carries some risk of decreased reliability in the form of misfires.

I absolutely refuse to use lighter than factory mainsprings in my self-defense guns although I have been known to play around with such things in my "range toys".

Even lightening the trigger return spring can cause some issues with DA fire, particularly in rapid fire. That's why Miculek has a HEAVIER than normal trigger return spring installed in his revolvers.

Quote:

I suggest shooting some of your defensive ammo and some ammo with hard primers like Magtech. Shoot a couple of cylinders of each with the gun as it is now and then mark them and label them in some fashion. You will use these later to compare the depth of primer strikes after the polish and spring swap.

This is definitely better than nothing, and I'd be satisfied with that sort of "eyeball testing" for a range-only pistol, but it does not begin to approach the amount or sophistication of the testing done by the manufacturer to determine a spring weight that insures that the gun will consistently work properly.

Quote:

Good idea, but be wary of overusing one.

Yup, there can be a fine line between exercise which helps and repetitive stress/strain injuries.

at2000 · January 31, 2009, 08:58 AM

+1 on the gripmaster idea. They come in at least 3 different strengths (blue, red, and black), so start her out on the lightest one (blue).

**JohnKSa** · January 31, 2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

...start her out on the lightest one...

Even at the lightest level, care should still be exercised. Repetitive stress/strain issues can arise from situations where there is very little effort involved. Computer keyboards, for example, are a common culprit.

jephthai · January 31, 2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Repetitive stress/strain issues can arise from situations where there is very little effort involved. Computer keyboards, for example, are a common culprit.

I'm not sure why I am defending the gripmaster so much, but here goes. I'm an IT professional, so I end up typing for about 10 hours a day. I've grown very sensitive to keyboard design, layout, and workspace positioning. I sometimes find myself on the edge of soreness and need to make adjustments to my environment.

But squeezing the gripmaster a few times a day is something very different from keyboarding 10 hours every day. RSI is less about effort involved (I'm guessing you mean calories expended?), and more with the fine motor activity. Fine motor activity a gripmaster is not. My grandfather "gripmastered" every day of his life, and RSI in his hands is not his problem... it's the muscles he never exercised (knees, hips).

You are certainly correct that one can over-stress, but there are as many problems with weak muscles as with those that are overworked. I am concerned about my wife's physical strength for many more reasons than trigger control. I suppose some caution makes sense, but I doubt that excessive workout would be the problem for the OP's girlfriend.

-Jephthai-

nate45 · January 31, 2009, 11:10 AM

Hybra Port ™ Porting (™ Weigand Combat)
Complete Action Tuning (9, 10 or 11 #, double action only)
Crown Barrel
Chamfer Cylinder Throats
Recontour & Polish Trigger
"Bob" Hammer
Dehorn for Carry
Eliminate Cylinder Endshake
Replace all Springs
Polish all Plungers and Pins
Hard Chrome entire Revolver
Test Fire
Electro-Chemical etch with Gemini Customs logo
Does not include shipping costs
$595.95

http://www.geminicustoms.com/Revolve...20Services.htm

David the Gnome · January 31, 2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlkHawk73

Ahh yes, nothing like making the decision for her. You pick her clothes and stuff too or is she able to choose what make her comfirtbale? Same thing should be done with firearms as well. SHE should have chosen what SHE wanted, what felt comfrtable to HER and what SHE could easily manipulate.
It's such an importnat thing for her to have the tools to protect herself yet SHE can't decide what SHE'LL use. Let me guess, she'll not get any professional training either?

BlkHawk, I don't know where the hostility came from but I'll just let that pass. I perhaps could have been more specific in stating that I bought the gun because it was a good deal and I was out looking for a new revolver (I started another thread about it just a few threads down the page), when I got home she handled the gun and liked it, therefore it is now her gun since she doesn't like any of my other guns. If she likes the gun and she's willing to learn how to use it, I will do whatever I can to make it comfortable for her to use. No one is forcing her to use this gun, she wants and likes the gun. We're talking about a person who I couldn't drag into a gun store, let alone get her to try out different makes/models of guns. Don't assume you can judge without understanding the full situation. This is her decision, I'm just trying to make it work for her.

Thanks for all the other advice guys, I appreciate it.

David the Gnome · January 31, 2009, 11:19 AM

Haha Nate45, that is one sweet looking gun but that's quite a bit more than she wants I think. She likes the gun as-is, she even prefers the factory grips to the Hogues I got for it, she just wants the trigger a little easier to pull. I would very much like to get a set of those stocks however, if you happen to know which model those are.

Btw, what's the point in hard-chroming a stainless steel gun? Other than it looking darn sexy of course.

nate45 · January 31, 2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Btw, what's the point in hard-chroming a stainless steel gun? Other than it looking darn sexy of course.

I don't know why either, I have an 2 1/2 inch SP-101 and stock is just fine me, I'm too chea... ur frugal, to get $600 + shipping of custom work done to it.

I thought it would look neat with your Sig 210 though.

**JohnKSa** · January 31, 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

But squeezing the gripmaster a few times a day is something very different from keyboarding 10 hours every day. RSI is less about effort involved (I'm guessing you mean calories expended?), and more with the fine motor activity.

RSI is less about effort involved and more about "repetitive".

Squeezing the gripmaster a few times a day should be perfectly safe. I didn't say not to use it, I said to be careful about it. The lighter Gripmasters are easy to squeeze and it's easy to use one for hours a day while watching TV, driving, reading, etc. That's not such a good idea.

Quote:

Btw, what's the point in hard-chroming a stainless steel gun?

Chrome is a good deal harder than stainless steel and is also even more rust-resistant.

lagavulin62 · January 31, 2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

BlkHawk, I don't know where the hostility came from but I'll just let that pass. I perhaps could have been more specific in stating that I bought the gun because it was a good deal and I was out looking for a new revolver (I started another thread about it just a few threads down the page), when I got home she handled the gun and liked it, therefore it is now her gun since she doesn't like any of my other guns. If she likes the gun and she's willing to learn how to use it, I will do whatever I can to make it comfortable for her to use. No one is forcing her to use this gun, she wants and likes the gun. We're talking about a person who I couldn't drag into a gun store, let alone get her to try out different makes/models of guns. Don't assume you can judge without understanding the full situation. This is her decision, I'm just trying to make it work for her.

Thanks for all the other advice guys, I appreciate it.

david I know exactly the feeling. last spring I took my first basic handgun class at the local range. before I had never seriously considered owning a handgun but I decided to look into this because my wife felt that we needed some protection around the house. fast forward and here we are today and I own five handguns and make it to the range about twice a month. however not once has my wife accompanied me or followed through on my offer to buy her first handgun. she need only research the guns she is interested in and try them out for size and I will buy whatever she desires. but I'm beginning to feel this will never happen and so as a result I will continue to buy for myself. what are we to do in this situation? I had a friend tell me the best thing might be to buy a shotgun and teach her to use it. but I would still have to find a way to get her to the range. what to do?

orchidhunter · January 31, 2009, 09:48 PM

"In Teaching ladies defensive pistolcraft I find that quicker progress is made in the thumb_cocking mode." Col. Jeff Cooper. The quote came from Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol.3, No. 10, Dog Days,1995. orchidhunter

January 31, 2009, 01:29 AM	#28
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	parisite ~ For a defense gun, that's a dangerous act. 1) It takes time -- time the person may not have to spare when attacked. 2) If she cocks the gun and the attacker immediately surrenders, she cannot righteously shoot him. This leaves a shaky, adrenalized, poorly trained individual holding an attacker at gunpoint with a gun that has a superlight trigger. That's a recipe for an accidental shooting -- one that could put her behind bars for life as a murderer, or cost her family everything they own because of her negligence. 3) If she cocks the gun and doesn't immediately fire, she'll need to find a way to safely lower the hammer. This can be done easily when the shooter isn't under stress. But it's definitely and undoubtedly, no question, a fine-motor skill. Again, after an adrenalin dump is not the time to be performing a fine motor skill like that -- especially if, as in this case, the shooter isn't exactly well trained to begin with. 4) It gives her a superlight trigger, good for shooting -- but it also opens her up to an enthusiastically wrong prosecutor trying to make a name for himself by pursuing charges for manslaughter with the "theory of the case" that the shooter actually lied about defending herself, and instead claimed self-defense after accidentally shooting the "poor misunderstood youth" with her hair trigger gun!! There are more. Those are some of the biggies. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

January 31, 2009, 06:09 AM	#29
tmbrcruizr Junior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Posts: 13	Iowegan's guide I polished the internals on my sp101 357, and did not change any springs. It made a world of difference. I would do that first. I used da wife's sp101 9mm as the control, and could tell a big difference in them. Da wife didn't want me to take her gun apart,said it 'worked' just fine the way it was.

January 31, 2009, 11:10 AM	#36
nate45 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 3,746	Here you go this will fix it Hybra Port ™ Porting (™ Weigand Combat) Complete Action Tuning (9, 10 or 11 #, double action only) Crown Barrel Chamfer Cylinder Throats Recontour & Polish Trigger "Bob" Hammer Dehorn for Carry Eliminate Cylinder Endshake Replace all Springs Polish all Plungers and Pins Hard Chrome entire Revolver Test Fire Electro-Chemical etch with Gemini Customs logo Does not include shipping costs $595.95 http://www.geminicustoms.com/Revolve...20Services.htm __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<)

January 31, 2009, 11:19 AM	#38
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	Haha Nate45, that is one sweet looking gun but that's quite a bit more than she wants I think. She likes the gun as-is, she even prefers the factory grips to the Hogues I got for it, she just wants the trigger a little easier to pull. I would very much like to get a set of those stocks however, if you happen to know which model those are. Btw, what's the point in hard-chroming a stainless steel gun? Other than it looking darn sexy of course. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

January 31, 2009, 09:48 PM	#42
orchidhunter Junior member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Posts: 320	"In Teaching ladies defensive pistolcraft I find that quicker progress is made in the thumb_cocking mode." Col. Jeff Cooper. The quote came from Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol.3, No. 10, Dog Days,1995. orchidhunter Last edited by orchidhunter; January 31, 2009 at 10:08 PM.

January 31, 2009, 01:16 AM	#27
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	What's wrong with having her cock it with her thumb and shooting it single action? She should shoot it more accurately that way anyway.

January 31, 2009, 08:58 AM	#33
at2000 Senior Member Join Date: February 29, 2000 Posts: 133	+1 on the gripmaster idea. They come in at least 3 different strengths (blue, red, and black), so start her out on the lightest one (blue).