AK or SKS for a newbie?

GunFool · December 27, 2002, 03:33 PM

I am looking for a simpler, rugged alternative to the AR and Mini-14 style rifles. I have been considering the SKS because of its low cost, un-complicated operation and maintenance, and reputation as a tough, reliable rifle. I have no experience with AK style rifles but I have had other friends and shooters reccommend the AK as another possible alternative. I understand that both fire the same 7.62x39 cartridge with the AK having removeable magazines as opposed to a fixed internal. My questions are:

(1) How does the AK compare to the SKS in terms of ease of operation?

(2) How does the AK compare to the SKS in terms of cleaning and maintenance?

(3) In general, is teh AK design as tough and reliable as the SKS?

(4) Where can I find english AK manuals to download online?

Any help would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks!

Zigokubasi · December 27, 2002, 04:21 PM

My vote is for the AK. It's a more modern design than the SKS, and about as reliable and efficient as semiautos get. Accuracy is going to be slightly worse than the SKS, more or less depending on the AK clone you get. In reference to your points:

1) Simpler, IMO. Rock the mag in, drop the safety, pull the charging handle, aim, fire, repeat 29 times.

2) Also simpler IMO, with the AK you just remove the mag, clear the chamber, push the rear tab in, pop off the dust cover, remove the recoil spring a guide rod, slide out the gas piston, bolt and carrier, and scrub away. It's easier than it sounds, actually.

3) *Ahem*...I would have to say it's more reliable than the SKS. AKs can take a serious beating and continue to function. Fill the receiver with dirt, pee on it, run it over, whatever. The only FTF I ever had was a dud round of cheap chinese ammo.

4) Try: http://www.gunmanuals.ch/manuals01.htm

Ziggy

Chipperman · December 27, 2002, 05:17 PM

I think I would agree with zigokubasi on most points.

1. Both are pretty idiot proof designs. The SKS has a bolt hold open that the AK does not. That's one plus for the SKS.

2. Clean an AK.... Why?
Both are pretty easy, actually. The SKS bolt may be SLIGHTLY more complicated than the AK bolt. I think the average 5 year old kid could figure out how to work either design. (Which could be good or bad, depending on your point of view.

)

3. I've never had a failure with either.

GunFool · December 27, 2002, 05:31 PM

Thanks a bunch for the help so far folks!

Are AK magazines and accessories readily available online? If so, where are the reputable sites?

Is there anything that I should *avoid* while shopping for an AK? Such as poor quality manufacturers, countries-of-origin to avoid, good and bad magazines, etc?

Knife_sniper · December 27, 2002, 09:29 PM

Go to

WWW.AK-47.NET

They have many rifle reviews.

When buying an AK, make sure its front sight is NOT "crooked"
This does ont really hurt the rifles accuracy, but a crooked sight is annoying. Also make sure the gas tube is not crooked either, its found above the barrel.

AK's are the best, as an owner of both, I would rather have the AK.

GunFool · December 28, 2002, 09:43 AM

Ok Im sold on the AK.

Now what are the best 30 round magazines. And where can I find them online?

Tropical Z · December 28, 2002, 11:37 AM

If you avoid the Romanian AK's (SAR's) you shouldnt have to worry about crooked sites or the whole gun looking like crap.Don't discount the 10 round Saiga AK's as they are made in THE Kalishnikov factory.I just got my third,and they are unbeatable AK values.If you want a hi-cap go with a VEPR.Its well worth the extra $150 youll spend on it instead of the Romanian garbage.
Saigas in 7.62x39 are at CDNN for $159 1-800-588-9500
www.robarm.com
www.eaacorp.com

Chipperman · December 28, 2002, 08:53 PM

I would not say that you should avoid SAR's altogether, just examine carefully before buying. I have an SAR1 that I am very happy with (after refinishing the stock).

CDNN has AK mags on sale for $6.99 right now. Stock up.

Zigokubasi · December 29, 2002, 04:07 PM

30 rounders are pretty easy to get still, what you should avoid is having to cough up $20-25 apiece from a local dealer. Order them out of Shotgun News or from CDNN and you'll pay the least and get the most. As for quality, to only ones I can speak for are the Chinese and Russian, and both were great. I've heard good and bad about the Bulgarian plastic mags, but the East German steel mags seem ok. Try and pay no more than $10 per mag.

Ziggy

BudS · December 29, 2002, 08:35 PM

My SKSs are set up for hunting, but at a moment's notice, I can remove the 5-rd. mag & insert a 30-rd. mag. My AK goes with me 'most everywhere as a SHTF weapon, with eight 30-rd. mags loaded w/25 rds ea., but at a moment's notice, I can insert a 5-rd. mag in it also and take it hunting!

Shop well and get one of each and HAVE FUN!

Destructo6 · December 30, 2002, 12:29 AM

About the only AK mag to avoid is the Chinese 7.62x39 Bakelite magazine. Shouldn't be a big problem, since most of these have asking prices in the $80 neighborhood as collector's pieces (POS, if you ask me).

Otherwise, every steel AK mag I own, European and Chinese, are built like the proverbial brick $#!+ house. You shouldn't have a problem, since finding a bad AK mag is rare.

Check Tapco and Clearview Investments for mag deals, too.

MAKOwner · December 30, 2002, 01:28 AM

Having both I would also opt for the AK. Although for the price the SKS is inviting and is not a bad choice at all. It's just for most people that really want one of these what they really want is a full on AK...

I would straight up get a Romanian SAR1. You cannot beat it for the price (the Saiga is a neutered PC rifle with expensive mags, you can however modify them into decent AKs if you are down with that. Or they're good as is if you really don't care about having a true AK type rifle). The SARs aren't pretty but they work, and can be tinkered with to look great too. I've had several chinese AKs, and currently have a SAR1 and 2 and love them (both are 100% non-"crooked" too). Never going to get rid of them... Go to ak-47.net as someone else suggested. All the info you could ever need. Also be sure to check out this Romanian AK info page: http://linx310.nothingbutguns.com/

Tropical Z · December 30, 2002, 01:48 AM

Saiga mags are $18.99 at CDNN and are as good a mag as i've ever seen.Romanians may work,but they're still cheap and vastly inferior to ANY Russian AK you can find.

Labuyo · December 30, 2002, 02:34 AM

Sorry to jump-in, but can the Saiga use AK mags? If not can it be coverted? Thanks!

Tropical Z · December 30, 2002, 02:46 AM

You CAN convert AK hi-caps to work in a Saiga pretty easily,but ive never done it and it requires you to put some US made parts on the gun or else its illegal according to the Hitler-loving-freedom-hating-dopeheads at BA:barf: TF

MAKOwner · December 30, 2002, 05:28 AM

The Romanian gun could only be considered inferior in cosmetics only, you would be hard pressed to have any malfunctions unless you got a real lemon (and then it would most likely be due to the added US made fire control parts which can be swapped for $30). They are commie mil-spec AKs other than the added US parts.

And a VEPR is more than just your run of the mill russian AK as pictured (and the Romanian either has cosmoline on it still or is the worst condition example someone could find, neither of mine look near that bad...)

As for the Saiga hi-cap conversion, check out the forums at ak-47.net in the build it yourself board. There is a post with pictures/steps to do it by a user by the of W. Should be ablke to find it easily using the search function. Making it take the actual magazine is pretty dirt simple, only a slight bit of filing on the mag catch and you have to add in a feedramp. Which is not too hard. The hardest part of the swap is the conversion to standard AK pistol grip stock setup so you can add enough US parts to be legal. I'm not sure if there is a way to add enough US parts without doing that... It's still not terribly hard at all if you are into tinkering with guns at all. I'm in the process of procurring a Saiga myself to mess around with, should be fun.

ReadyOnTheRight · December 30, 2002, 09:29 AM

Aim Surplus has an SAR1 with a 10-round and high cap magazine for $280.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AIM_Rifles_1.html

They also sell more magazines and ammo.

Destro · May 19, 2004, 11:44 AM

www.ohiorapifire.com:
www.fac.com
I have nothing but good reports onthese modestl(under $500) AKs.

Pesticidal · May 19, 2004, 12:44 PM

You may want to edit your links...

12 Volt Man · May 19, 2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Aim Surplus has an SAR1 with a 10-round and high cap magazine for $280.

Ahhhh..... Those were good days. Almost a hundred bucks more now.

Logistar · May 19, 2004, 02:26 PM

AK! The SKS is fine and costs less. I just think the AK is a lot more "fun". Buying both isn't a bad idea either.

I prefer to get my mags at gun shows as I will try them out for proper fit. Some mags tend to be a but tight and some a bit loose. It's no big deal but I started "testing" all the mags I buy after I had already bought several without doing so. (They all function fine.)

I went to a gun show a while back. The building was next to a hotel. I parked in a lot between them. There was a group of people exiting the hotel to go to their vehicles. I opened my trunk and pulled out the AK to take into the show to look for mags. The looks on the faces of those leaving the hotel was priceless!

Logistar

Chipperman · May 19, 2004, 03:13 PM

Wow, it's wierd to look at stuff you wrote a year and a half ago. ...

I agree that the AK is more fun, but the SKS is a great rifle. Esp for a newbie.

Marko Kloos · May 19, 2004, 08:14 PM

Y'know, I think I actually *prefer* the SKS over the AK, for several reasons.

The fixed internal magazine is just as quick to top off as an AK mag is replaced, and you don't have to worry about carrying mags or storing your empties.

In addition, the shorter fixed mag of the SKS lets you get much lower in the prone position, and it makes a dandy hand rest for off-hand shooting.

The SKS has four inches more barrel and sight radius, giving the 7.62x39 some added punch. SKS rifles also tend to be a little more accurate than AK-47s.

Lastly, you can get two good SKS rifles for the price of one AK-47, even if you consider a mediocre AK variant like a Romak.

Moparmike · May 19, 2004, 08:31 PM

No offense Trop, but I just had to note the irony of:

Quote:

If you avoid the Romanian AK's (SAR's) you shouldnt have to worry about crooked sites or the whole gun looking like crap

coming from a man who touts the virtues of Hi-points.

LOL!!!!

Dead · May 19, 2004, 09:24 PM

I always have trouble with failure to fire for my AK's, BUT it only happens when I run out of ammo to shoot... Damn it!

December 27, 2002, 03:33 PM	#1
GunFool Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Posts: 157	AK or SKS for a newbie? I am looking for a simpler, rugged alternative to the AR and Mini-14 style rifles. I have been considering the SKS because of its low cost, un-complicated operation and maintenance, and reputation as a tough, reliable rifle. I have no experience with AK style rifles but I have had other friends and shooters reccommend the AK as another possible alternative. I understand that both fire the same 7.62x39 cartridge with the AK having removeable magazines as opposed to a fixed internal. My questions are: (1) How does the AK compare to the SKS in terms of ease of operation? (2) How does the AK compare to the SKS in terms of cleaning and maintenance? (3) In general, is teh AK design as tough and reliable as the SKS? (4) Where can I find english AK manuals to download online? Any help would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks! __________________ It is US against THEM. Whoever they are.

December 27, 2002, 05:31 PM	#4
GunFool Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Posts: 157	Thanks a bunch for the help so far folks! Are AK magazines and accessories readily available online? If so, where are the reputable sites? Is there anything that I should avoid while shopping for an AK? Such as poor quality manufacturers, countries-of-origin to avoid, good and bad magazines, etc? __________________ It is US against THEM. Whoever they are.

December 27, 2002, 09:29 PM	#5
Knife_sniper Member Join Date: October 15, 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 59	Go to WWW.AK-47.NET They have many rifle reviews. When buying an AK, make sure its front sight is NOT "crooked" This does ont really hurt the rifles accuracy, but a crooked sight is annoying. Also make sure the gas tube is not crooked either, its found above the barrel. AK's are the best, as an owner of both, I would rather have the AK. __________________ Blah

December 28, 2002, 09:43 AM	#6
GunFool Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2000 Posts: 157	Ok Im sold on the AK. Now what are the best 30 round magazines. And where can I find them online? __________________ It is US against THEM. Whoever they are.

December 28, 2002, 11:37 AM	#7
Tropical Z Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Location: Atlantis Posts: 1,683	If you avoid the Romanian AK's (SAR's) you shouldnt have to worry about crooked sites or the whole gun looking like crap.Don't discount the 10 round Saiga AK's as they are made in THE Kalishnikov factory.I just got my third,and they are unbeatable AK values.If you want a hi-cap go with a VEPR.Its well worth the extra $150 youll spend on it instead of the Romanian garbage. Saigas in 7.62x39 are at CDNN for $159 1-800-588-9500 www.robarm.com www.eaacorp.com __________________ FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE!!!!!!!

December 27, 2002, 04:21 PM	#2
Zigokubasi Member Join Date: April 24, 2001 Location: NM Posts: 91	My vote is for the AK. It's a more modern design than the SKS, and about as reliable and efficient as semiautos get. Accuracy is going to be slightly worse than the SKS, more or less depending on the AK clone you get. In reference to your points: 1) Simpler, IMO. Rock the mag in, drop the safety, pull the charging handle, aim, fire, repeat 29 times. 2) Also simpler IMO, with the AK you just remove the mag, clear the chamber, push the rear tab in, pop off the dust cover, remove the recoil spring a guide rod, slide out the gas piston, bolt and carrier, and scrub away. It's easier than it sounds, actually. 3) Ahem...I would have to say it's more reliable than the SKS. AKs can take a serious beating and continue to function. Fill the receiver with dirt, pee on it, run it over, whatever. The only FTF I ever had was a dud round of cheap chinese ammo. 4) Try: http://www.gunmanuals.ch/manuals01.htm Ziggy

December 27, 2002, 05:17 PM	#3
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	I think I would agree with zigokubasi on most points. 1. Both are pretty idiot proof designs. The SKS has a bolt hold open that the AK does not. That's one plus for the SKS. 2. Clean an AK.... Why? Both are pretty easy, actually. The SKS bolt may be SLIGHTLY more complicated than the AK bolt. I think the average 5 year old kid could figure out how to work either design. (Which could be good or bad, depending on your point of view. ) 3. I've never had a failure with either.

December 28, 2002, 08:53 PM	#8
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	I would not say that you should avoid SAR's altogether, just examine carefully before buying. I have an SAR1 that I am very happy with (after refinishing the stock). CDNN has AK mags on sale for $6.99 right now. Stock up.

December 29, 2002, 04:07 PM	#9
Zigokubasi Member Join Date: April 24, 2001 Location: NM Posts: 91	30 rounders are pretty easy to get still, what you should avoid is having to cough up $20-25 apiece from a local dealer. Order them out of Shotgun News or from CDNN and you'll pay the least and get the most. As for quality, to only ones I can speak for are the Chinese and Russian, and both were great. I've heard good and bad about the Bulgarian plastic mags, but the East German steel mags seem ok. Try and pay no more than $10 per mag. Ziggy

December 29, 2002, 08:35 PM	#10
BudS Member Join Date: September 25, 2002 Location: AL Posts: 54	I have both! My SKSs are set up for hunting, but at a moment's notice, I can remove the 5-rd. mag & insert a 30-rd. mag. My AK goes with me 'most everywhere as a SHTF weapon, with eight 30-rd. mags loaded w/25 rds ea., but at a moment's notice, I can insert a 5-rd. mag in it also and take it hunting! Shop well and get one of each and HAVE FUN! __________________ "Refusing To Be A Victim."

December 30, 2002, 12:29 AM	#11
Destructo6 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: Nogales, AZ USA Posts: 4,000	About the only AK mag to avoid is the Chinese 7.62x39 Bakelite magazine. Shouldn't be a big problem, since most of these have asking prices in the $80 neighborhood as collector's pieces (POS, if you ask me). Otherwise, every steel AK mag I own, European and Chinese, are built like the proverbial brick $#!+ house. You shouldn't have a problem, since finding a bad AK mag is rare. Check Tapco and Clearview Investments for mag deals, too. __________________ God gave you a soul. Your parents, a body. Your country, a rifle. Keep all of them clean.

December 30, 2002, 01:28 AM	#12
MAKOwner Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2001 Posts: 315	Having both I would also opt for the AK. Although for the price the SKS is inviting and is not a bad choice at all. It's just for most people that really want one of these what they really want is a full on AK... I would straight up get a Romanian SAR1. You cannot beat it for the price (the Saiga is a neutered PC rifle with expensive mags, you can however modify them into decent AKs if you are down with that. Or they're good as is if you really don't care about having a true AK type rifle). The SARs aren't pretty but they work, and can be tinkered with to look great too. I've had several chinese AKs, and currently have a SAR1 and 2 and love them (both are 100% non-"crooked" too). Never going to get rid of them... Go to ak-47.net as someone else suggested. All the info you could ever need. Also be sure to check out this Romanian AK info page: http://linx310.nothingbutguns.com/ __________________ MAKOwner

December 30, 2002, 02:34 AM	#14
Labuyo Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: somewhere in occupied Il. Posts: 223	Sorry to jump-in, but can the Saiga use AK mags? If not can it be coverted? Thanks!

December 30, 2002, 02:46 AM	#15
Tropical Z Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Location: Atlantis Posts: 1,683	You CAN convert AK hi-caps to work in a Saiga pretty easily,but ive never done it and it requires you to put some US made parts on the gun or else its illegal according to the Hitler-loving-freedom-hating-dopeheads at BA:barf: TF __________________ FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE!!!!!!!

December 30, 2002, 05:28 AM	#16
MAKOwner Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2001 Posts: 315	The Romanian gun could only be considered inferior in cosmetics only, you would be hard pressed to have any malfunctions unless you got a real lemon (and then it would most likely be due to the added US made fire control parts which can be swapped for $30). They are commie mil-spec AKs other than the added US parts. And a VEPR is more than just your run of the mill russian AK as pictured (and the Romanian either has cosmoline on it still or is the worst condition example someone could find, neither of mine look near that bad...) As for the Saiga hi-cap conversion, check out the forums at ak-47.net in the build it yourself board. There is a post with pictures/steps to do it by a user by the of W. Should be ablke to find it easily using the search function. Making it take the actual magazine is pretty dirt simple, only a slight bit of filing on the mag catch and you have to add in a feedramp. Which is not too hard. The hardest part of the swap is the conversion to standard AK pistol grip stock setup so you can add enough US parts to be legal. I'm not sure if there is a way to add enough US parts without doing that... It's still not terribly hard at all if you are into tinkering with guns at all. I'm in the process of procurring a Saiga myself to mess around with, should be fun. __________________ MAKOwner

December 30, 2002, 09:29 AM	#17
ReadyOnTheRight Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 377	Aim Surplus has an SAR1 with a 10-round and high cap magazine for $280. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/AIM_Rifles_1.html They also sell more magazines and ammo. __________________ "Personal weapons are what raised mankind out of the mud, and the rifle is the queen of personal weapons. The possession of a good rifle, as well as the skill to use it well, truly makes a man the monarch of all he surveys." -Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle-

May 19, 2004, 11:44 AM	#18
Destro Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 18	Try this: www.ohiorapifire.com: www.fac.com I have nothing but good reports onthese modestl(under $500) AKs. __________________ Blaming guns for crime is like blaming cars for drunken driving. Got Jesus? Got .45 acp? Got FAL? Got Rotty?

May 19, 2004, 12:44 PM	#19
Pesticidal Junior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Frigid north, south of Canada Posts: 7	You may want to edit your links...

May 19, 2004, 02:26 PM	#21
Logistar Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2001 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 298	AK! The SKS is fine and costs less. I just think the AK is a lot more "fun". Buying both isn't a bad idea either. I prefer to get my mags at gun shows as I will try them out for proper fit. Some mags tend to be a but tight and some a bit loose. It's no big deal but I started "testing" all the mags I buy after I had already bought several without doing so. (They all function fine.) I went to a gun show a while back. The building was next to a hotel. I parked in a lot between them. There was a group of people exiting the hotel to go to their vehicles. I opened my trunk and pulled out the AK to take into the show to look for mags. The looks on the faces of those leaving the hotel was priceless! Logistar

May 19, 2004, 03:13 PM	#22
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	Wow, it's wierd to look at stuff you wrote a year and a half ago. ... I agree that the AK is more fun, but the SKS is a great rifle. Esp for a newbie.

May 19, 2004, 08:14 PM	#23
Marko Kloos Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Enfield, NH Posts: 5,521	Y'know, I think I actually prefer the SKS over the AK, for several reasons. The fixed internal magazine is just as quick to top off as an AK mag is replaced, and you don't have to worry about carrying mags or storing your empties. In addition, the shorter fixed mag of the SKS lets you get much lower in the prone position, and it makes a dandy hand rest for off-hand shooting. The SKS has four inches more barrel and sight radius, giving the 7.62x39 some added punch. SKS rifles also tend to be a little more accurate than AK-47s. Lastly, you can get two good SKS rifles for the price of one AK-47, even if you consider a mediocre AK variant like a Romak. __________________ "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." --A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher the munchkin wrangler.

May 19, 2004, 09:24 PM	#25
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	I always have trouble with failure to fire for my AK's, BUT it only happens when I run out of ammo to shoot... Damn it! __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org