Would you shoot the people who come to your door after your guns?

[Double Naught Spy]

Tamara, guns are NOT my home. Check the definitions.

The Tennesee police spokesman was referring to working within the confines of the law, not outside of the law. His reply was to the suggestion that the shooting had been illegal because somebody had taken the law into their own hands which was something implied that was not legal.

You know, if said laws are passed that will allow that crap to go on, then I don't need to be at my home. I will be finding a new country to live in. I won't like it, but I am not going to commit murder against folks operating in what is within the jurisdiction of the law at the time it happens. Yes, I know all the parameters and recent findings regarding the Second Amendment. After 100 years or so, it is coming back in vogue to interpret the Second as pertaining to the individual. That is great and that is how I believe the forfathers intended. However, should laws be passed in conflict with the Second Amendment, they may not be ruled unconstitutional for some time. Until that time, they are appropriately legal laws. It sucks, but that is the way it is.

I really like reading all the macho chest beating stuff here and on other forums. Unfortunately what a lot of the chest beaters forget about is that most people who end up in standoff positions with the government and involve lethal force, regardless of whether the circumstances are later deemed appropriate or not, seem to lose out. Sure, a few of the legal folks get killed as well, but that only matters to the families of those folks. It seems that people bunkered never have enough people or provisions to outlast the government. And gosh you have events like Ruby Ridge where a couple of the kills by the government officers (sorry, I don't recall the particular branches involved or who pulled the triggers) were deemed wrong, years after the fact, that just don't bring back those lives, now does it. Do you think Weaver is happy to know that the shootings of his family were in fact illegal? I am sure he is thrilled to know that. It doesn't bring them back, however. Have you seen him interviewed and talking about his dead family members? It sucks to be him.

[coz]

Lots of tough talk.

I'm guessing it would not be a surprise, so neither me nor my guns would be there waiting.

If it's a surprise?

Who knows? God help us all if it comes to that.

What is sad is the unregistered guns would NOT be confiscated.
Do you think criminals will give up their unregistered firearms?

Will they show up with a list?

Gosh Mr. Gee Man, I sold my weapons for food money cause I worked in one of the business areas that the government did not bail out like they did the airlines. So, I went to the bar down the street and sold them all for cash.
A 4371? What the heck is that? Oh that yeller form I filled out when I bought em....no, I don't have none of them.

I think one guy's name was Ronnie and the other Brett. Ronnie liked handguns and Brett wanted the rifles and shotguns.

Have a nice day JBT!

[Porter-Glockwell]

Remember Double Naught Spy, the Holocaust was legal too.

If the government passed a law that you had to turn your wife/daugters in for rape by public officials would you submit as well?

This practice of Prima Noctae (sp?) was legal under fuedal British law.

When WOULD you fight for anything? Are you a man or a coward that would give up any of your rights if the law said so?

The founding fathers started killing british thugs over a much smaller tax than we endure today.

You say that you would leave the country... to go where? Practically everywhere else is WORSE than America. What if it was ILLEGAL to leave the country?

Are all your morals so flexible or do you have a line in the sand about anything at all?

There comes a time in every man's life where he must decide where he stands or submit to others who have already decided.

Grow a farking backbone.

Porter

[ballistic gelatin]

There is a problem with "attacking" them before they "attack" you. The minute you do anything forceful/violent against the government, you will be labeled a "Domestic Terrorist" and they will be justified in catching you, holding you, and killing you.

[Ron Ankeny]

Would I murder another human being for knocking on my door to enforce a law that I don't like. That'a a dumb ass question if I ever heard one.

[Shotgun364]

Dumb ass question? Are the people coming to your home to confiscate your gun/s thinking that way? No. Gun control is the effort to disarm lawful americans by the abuse of law and excessive force. Sen. Charles Schumers "relentless legislative strategy" in action.They get paid to inforce whatever law, regardless to how unjust and unconstitutional it is. If they had any conscience they would protest these laws by noncompliance. Like someone said earlier, call in sick. But thats not whats happening across the country now is it?
It is an extremely valid question.

[Porter-Glockwell]

Self defense is NOT murder. We are not talking about a simple little law that you don't like. We are talking about the right to self defense. Without the ability to defend yourself you are as good as dead. Taking away guns is like taking away oxygen. Eventually the results are the same. Defending your guns is self defense, nothing more. Especially if the penalty for not giving them up is being burned to death.

Porter

[Edward429451]

Ron Ankeny, Well, would you? You never really answered it. What you did say could be taken either way...

Porter-Glockwell, Excellant post. That was the readers digest condensed version of 'Lendsringers Declaration'.

[nsf003]

Amen Porter!! Amen!! You have some great points. Coz, your post sounds like something that I would do.


nsf003

[TheeBadOne]

I'd vote for E. Guns? What guns...?

[Cosmoline]

I'm getting sick of this nonsense about shooting cops coming to enforce a law. I strongly suspect that 99% of the people writing it would not do it, thankfully. However, this sort of talk does encourage the real nutcases out there. I'm sworn to uphold the laws, whether I like them or not. But even if I weren't, I would find the notion of shooting a cop in the gut because he's enforcing some stupid law VILE BEYOND WORDS. The answer does not lie in violence, but in voting. The NRA is powerful not because it threatens to kill anti-gun politicos, but because it beats them soundly at the ballot box. That's the way we do things in this country the last time I checked.

If you really see no option but revolution, at least have the spine to do it in the open. Declare yourself, just as the founding fathers did. Sign your name to a petition and send it to the existing government, just as they did. Announce your intentions, and if there's an armed conflict, follow the conventions of civilized warfare by adopting proper military organization, uniforms, leadership structure, discipline and so on. If you do otherwise you will not be patriots but terrorists, and will deserve to be burned down and forgotten along with all the McVeighs of the world.

[nsf003]

It is not only our right, but our duty, to disobay unjust laws -- Martin Luther King

Wht do you think about them disobaying the supreme law of the land, being the Constitution. You also should be sworn to uphold this law. You have to make a choice if the Constitution and the current laws contradict. The Nazis were just obeying the law too, and look what happened.


nsf003

[Scott Conklin]

So, Cosmo, you come to my home to steal from me and I am supposed to submit because you're "just following orders" and I haven't gone out and announced to all the world "Here I am, I'm going to disobey the tyrants"?

Seems there were some trials in Nuremburg over that defense. You lost. Fact is that at some point LEO, soldier, whomever, has to decide that doing something simply isn't right. If you enforce an unconstitutional law then not only is that not right but you have effectively ceased to be LEO and become a terrorist yourself.

Will I shoot them if they come to my house? If I haven't already managed to disappear and become the hunter, yes, with pleasure.

[snubby]

Cosmoline:
Agree with you in part. You have expressed the exact purpose of the 2nd Amendment, the right of the people to organize in militias to ensure the security of a free state. Perhaps the answer to this poll is for the law-abiding to organize (at the county level, perhaps under the sheriff?) into militias (NOT the National Guard, which is a part of the Army Reserve system). These militias provide a Constitutional cover and the numbers to be an effective deterrent to the imposition of tyranny in our country. However, the 2nd amendment could be superseded by an international treaty that disarmed civilians (signed by the President and ratified by the Senate, no vote by representatives necessary). [According to the Constitution, treaties become the law of the land, other provisions in the Constitution to the contrary notwithstanding.] What to do then? I'd expect a UN force would be the executors of such a treaty, since foreigners would have less compunction about shooting Americans over guns (we do it to them all the time under UN mandates in third world countries).

[WilderBill]

Cosmo,
I think 2nd Amendment pretty much nailed it.
If you choose to enforce a law that is in direct conflict with the constitution that makes YOU the criminal.
If you choose your job over what you know to be right, then remember the the Nueremburg defense didn't work very well.
If you choose to come to the home of most of those responding to this poll I would consider that an act of suicide!

[fix]

...good to know which side you'll be on.

2nd,

Ditto.

[Ron Ankeny]

Let's go guys. How do you all really feel?

[ballistic gelatin]

it has been written..."kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. Sounds pretty harsh doesn't it?

[nsf003]

Good post 2nd Amendment. I agree.


nsf003

[Rebeldon]

What guns? Do you mean the guns I sold yesterday?

[Porter-Glockwell]

Remember, when it's time to bury your guns it's time to dig them up. Hiding them away and trying to lie about it will do you no good and only get you caught a little slower. The ONLY appropriate response to someone who demands you give up your guns is a double tap COM.



Confronting a confiscation team goes something like this.

"We are from the confiscation squad, our records show that you are a gun owner, surrender your weapons immedia..."

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!... (reload another 30rnd mag into your AK and repeat as necessary)

No way in hell am I handing them over with a sniveling whimper. Even if the confiscators were members of my own family.

Porter

[Ankeny]

....good grief.

[geegee]

I say we all keep an eye on Canada. If such a scenario could happen, I'd see it happening there first. I loved my six years up there, but how do you explain a country that while having much in common with the U.S., still counts many British monarchists and French Quebecois separatists? As a group of inhabitants of a country, they seem to prefer being subjects to being citizens-apologies to the Canadian TFL'ers on the board. BTW, if you're Canadian and agree with me, would you try to move to the U.S. if that did happen?

Their gun laws have been a very instructive study in incremental gun control:the frog being boiled in a pot. geegee

[Hutch]

My reaction would be based on the circumstances and the environment. If there's CNN coverage every day about violent resistance, G-men being met at the door with hot lead etc., then that's probably the time to go to the mattresses. Get the non-combatants out of the house, and prepare to make headlines if/when They arrive. If I'm the sole target of a single raid, I'll go meekly, and they'll have to cut open the safe. I'll be videotaping if I can, and I'll certainly be trying to memorize names, badge numbers and faces. That'll come in handy, because if that happens, it'll be time to go Bowman.

Question: how much protection from federal or foreign goons do you think the local gendarmerie will be? I'm sure Sheriff Mack's response would be different than, say the D.C. police. Still, what do you think?

[Ollie Krag]

No choice we harvest blueberries