BATFE goes postal in Richmond VA - Page 6

jrklaus · August 29, 2005, 06:48 AM

Yes, organizationally the President should have control. "Iron triangles," however, are often resistent to Presidential influence. Iron triangles are formed by the agency, the congressional committee that oversees the agency, and the special interest groups who are affected by the agency's regulations. Unfortunately for shooters, right now the special interest groups the BATFE is listening to are the gun-control groups.

publius42 · August 29, 2005, 07:46 AM

Lying and setting up cameras should be illegal, if it is not.

Wildcard and butch:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...4&page=1&pp=25

AmericanFreeBird · August 29, 2005, 02:11 PM

I'm not sure I actually believe this. If true it does show that dubya isn't reeling in these renegades very well.

In any event simply refuse to answer questions without legal counsel present and then shut up and smile.

LAK · August 30, 2005, 03:57 AM

jrklaus

Quote:

Yes, organizationally the President should have control. "Iron triangles," however, are often resistent to Presidential influence. Iron triangles are formed by the agency, the congressional committee that oversees the agency, and the special interest groups who are affected by the agency's regulations. Unfortunately for shooters, right now the special interest groups the BATFE is listening to are the gun-control groups.

Yes, that is how it is playing.

But the President has the power to issue clear and decisive directives to the head of any Federal agency and require compliance via Executive Order.

For that matter the BATFE could be dissolved with an EO altogether. Transferring all BATmen to collecting alcohol and tobacco taxes - call it BAT. And leaving crimes committed within the jurisdiction of the Federal government (whether with explosives or not) to the FBI, who historically have more experience than anyone else anyway.
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smokinggun · August 30, 2005, 07:04 AM

I just recieved this from VCDL:

One of VCDL's members did a Freedom of Information Act request to the Virginia State Police on the BATFE 'residency check' scheme that was being run on purchasers at the last Richmond gun show.

The resulting document, which gives important insight into the scheme, is now on VCDL's site for you to view:

http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/gunshow.pdf

The first three pages talk about the last gun show. The fourth page was created sometime before March of this year.

Notice on page four that 'residency checks' have been going on for at least a year! I'm surprised that we didn't learn about it earlier. I would guess that many people either didn't know who to notify or, more likely, were too intimidated.

Page three discusses the language one BATFE agent had on his t-shirt. That language wasn't necessary for a **police officer** to wear at a gun show, which is really a family event. A t-shirt saying something like 'Guns Save Lives' wouldn't have been so inappropriately offensive. ;-)

BTW, I learned that after complaints about the t-shirt, the officer was force to turn the shirt inside out.

Also it is noted on the third page that "Twenty-one individuals were deterred from making purchases due to questioning by Task Force members." It doesn't say that those were all criminals buying guns. It is very likely that it spooked off mostly legitimate gun purchasers who didn't want to purchase a gun in an oppressive environment where the police were hanging around and appeared to be chomping at the bit to bust someone.

Finally, it is noted on page three that the BATFE is only suspending the 'residency check' scheme, not terminating it. Thus, it could rear its ugly head in a more covert manner in the future. Any bets?

Let's keep our eyes and ears open, VCDL!

August 29, 2005, 02:11 PM	#128
AmericanFreeBird Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: Northeast US Posts: 40	I'm not sure I actually believe this. If true it does show that dubya isn't reeling in these renegades very well. In any event simply refuse to answer questions without legal counsel present and then shut up and smile. __________________ Sis pacis , instruo pro bellum – If you want peace, prepare for war… Author Unknown It is not for honor or glory or wealth that we fight, but for freedom alone, which no good man gives up except with his life. -- Declaration of Arbroath, Scottland, 1320ad "With great power comes great responsibility." "...but as for me, give me liberty or give me Death!"

August 29, 2005, 06:48 AM	#126
jrklaus Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 520	Yes, organizationally the President should have control. "Iron triangles," however, are often resistent to Presidential influence. Iron triangles are formed by the agency, the congressional committee that oversees the agency, and the special interest groups who are affected by the agency's regulations. Unfortunately for shooters, right now the special interest groups the BATFE is listening to are the gun-control groups.

August 29, 2005, 07:46 AM	#127
publius42 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Posts: 1,936	Lying and setting up cameras should be illegal, if it is not. Wildcard and butch: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...4&page=1&pp=25

August 30, 2005, 07:04 AM	#130
smokinggun Member Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: Chesterfield, Virginia Posts: 27	I just recieved this from VCDL: One of VCDL's members did a Freedom of Information Act request to the Virginia State Police on the BATFE 'residency check' scheme that was being run on purchasers at the last Richmond gun show. The resulting document, which gives important insight into the scheme, is now on VCDL's site for you to view: http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/gunshow.pdf The first three pages talk about the last gun show. The fourth page was created sometime before March of this year. Notice on page four that 'residency checks' have been going on for at least a year! I'm surprised that we didn't learn about it earlier. I would guess that many people either didn't know who to notify or, more likely, were too intimidated. Page three discusses the language one BATFE agent had on his t-shirt. That language wasn't necessary for a police officer to wear at a gun show, which is really a family event. A t-shirt saying something like 'Guns Save Lives' wouldn't have been so inappropriately offensive. ;-) BTW, I learned that after complaints about the t-shirt, the officer was force to turn the shirt inside out. Also it is noted on the third page that "Twenty-one individuals were deterred from making purchases due to questioning by Task Force members." It doesn't say that those were all criminals buying guns. It is very likely that it spooked off mostly legitimate gun purchasers who didn't want to purchase a gun in an oppressive environment where the police were hanging around and appeared to be chomping at the bit to bust someone. Finally, it is noted on page three that the BATFE is only suspending the 'residency check' scheme, not terminating it. Thus, it could rear its ugly head in a more covert manner in the future. Any bets? Let's keep our eyes and ears open, VCDL!