Ugly squib today - Page 2

MLeake · August 20, 2009, 10:05 PM

... but I haven't met nor spoken with the gentleman.

I can say that Ross Botha, one of their sales and service reps, is a good example of the type of person a company should want as their representative.

I'm also impressed with Mike Shovel, even if I think I may have misspelled his name (I've spoken with him over the phone, but have had no email correspondence with him).

**Tom Servo** · August 20, 2009, 10:06 PM

That's wonderful news, and a credit to both companies.

Did CorBon ever divulge the lot numbers for the ammunition that caused the squib?

MLeake · August 20, 2009, 10:10 PM

I don't know; I passed the lot number to them from the box, but I don't know if a recall or anything of the sort was initiated. Maybe some of the dealers in the forum would know the answer to that question.

isanchez2008 · August 20, 2009, 10:17 PM

Was unsure about Corbon. Glad to hear they treated you right! I will send them some buisness when its time to cycle out my carry ammo. Them being an outstanding company for CS I don't expect any problems with their loads.

Sevens · August 20, 2009, 11:00 PM

Terrific story you've got here, I'm eager to see pictures of the new revolver.
This is one of those tales that should, hopefully, make it's way around the 'net.

Really, really cool. Outrageous that S&W was willing & able to just build one at the drop of a hat.

Seems like they could have made it even a little bit better-- call you up one morning and ask you what you'd like for a personalized serial number!
You'd pretty much have to call this new revolver a one off, wouldn't you? Sure would if it had a unique serial number!

Hell, maybe my mind is wandering now, but you should contact Roy Jinks for a factory letter. His research will leave the logs and history of his office and lead him to the factory to talk to the folks that handled the build and processing of it.

What a great story.

MLeake · August 20, 2009, 11:28 PM

It was an initial assessment. They changed their minds, and opted for a better choice all around.

Better for me, because I get a revolver in good working order.

Better for both Cor-Bon and Smith & Wesson, for two reasons:
1) They get much better PR, and deservedly so; and
2) They both minimize liability in the event of malfunctions after I receive the replacement revolver; in fact, Cor-Bon effectively eliminates liability for themselves, because this is a brand new Smith revolver now. Smith and Wesson makes themselves no more liable than they would be for any new S&W revolver. If they had repaired a truly damaged revolver, and sent it back, they'd have potentially exposed themselves to some bad lawsuits down the way if anything had gone wrong.

I'm not the litigious sort, but I'm not the type of person most cost-benefit analysts have in mind when they ponder potential lawsuits.

Like I said, we all benefit.

However, they really didn't have to go to this level of trouble and expense. I'd have accepted whatever they had handy, so long as it had a 4" or 5" barrel (it's a hiking gun, not a primary hunting or silhouette gun, as I use it). The option they chose meant extra time, effort, and cost for both companies. Believe it or not, I think they did this just because they felt it was the right thing to do.

I know I'm impressed.

lomaxanderson · August 21, 2009, 05:16 AM

...glad both companies stepped up...Way to go...I think I'll go buy some corbon ammo as a way of saying thanks....
Pictures of the new gun would be nice...It's "special" you know

MLeake · August 21, 2009, 06:02 AM

... should arrive at my FFL around the middle of next week.

However, I may not be home until Thursday or Friday, so pictures may not be up until next weekend. But I'll definitely post some.

spleify · August 21, 2009, 09:10 AM

Scary story, I'm glad to hear no injuries resulted from this hishap.

Good to know that both companies took such good care of you. I also own a S&W, so its comforting to know there customer service is so good.

MLeake · August 29, 2009, 06:20 PM

... but I had to wait until today to pick it up. Unfortunately, light is a bit dim for good pictures right now. I'll try to get some tomorrow.

It's a beauty, though. They put Ahrend's round butt finger-groove woods on it. Cor-Bon and S&W have given me a better revolver than the one that was destroyed.

It shoots pretty well, too. Recoil with 180gr Remington Magnum and 255gr Keith Buffalo Bore loads was manageable; the flash was more noticeable than the recoil. (Vision momentarily blanked out after each shot; the thing puts out some flames.) After figuring out the sight picture, it was no trouble to keep rounds in the center of the forehead of my Zombie target.

Note: I would definitely prefer one of my .45 or 9mm semi-autos for HD / SD vs humans; my follow-up shot capability with the Mountain Gun leaves a lot to be desired. But for putting one or two hard shots into a 4-legged aggressor, this revolver is just fine by me.

I do think that if I were going to shoot magnum loads as a routine thing, I'd either change the grips or start using a glove. I like the Ahrend's grips a lot, and will leave them on, but between the recoil and the exposed backstrap, I noticed after shooting a box of 180's and 5 rounds of BB that I'd torn the skin off a whitewater paddling callus on my right thumb. Minimal blood, but the new skin underneath was a bit sensitive, so I called it a day at that point.

Once I acquire some reloading equipment and some skill in its use, I plan to take my .44 magnum brass and make some hot .44 special loads. I'll use the Keith loads in the woods, and the hot specials for range and HD.

I am extremely impressed with Cor-Bon's customer service and S&W's ingenuity in the handling of this situation. They did far more than I could have reasonably expected, and quite frankly they did a lot more than I had asked them to do.

Gun 4 Fun · August 29, 2009, 07:04 PM

That's great that you are happy. It makes me like Cor Bon and Smith even better now to.

shortwave · August 30, 2009, 02:37 AM

MLeake,glad you posted of your good outcome. Sometimes we hear only the bad and we fail to report the good. Congrats on your new and improved 29

Rich Miranda · August 30, 2009, 07:04 AM

I just found this thread, but as a loyal Cor-Bon customer, I am happy to hear the good news and will buy even more of their products now that I know they are a stand-up company!

Sevens · August 30, 2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Once I acquire some reloading equipment and some skill in its use, I plan to take my .44 magnum brass and make some hot .44 special loads. I'll use the Keith loads in the woods, and the hot specials for range and HD.

We look forward to seeing you over in the H&R forum! Make sure you include a link to this story when you show up to pick some brains. (just because I love this story!)

MLeake · August 30, 2009, 01:18 PM

First, one of me and the new revolver, for scale. I'm about 6ft, 220.

And, the 5-shot test group of Buffalo Bore 255gr HC Keith loads.

Right after this group was fired, I noticed I'd mildly shredded my thumb (callus from previous week's whitewater paddling was hanging off by one piece of bleeding, healthy skin...), so I called it quits.

Like I said, for full-house magnum loads, if I keep these grips on it, I will practice with a glove. Pretty sure I tore myself up on the Remington 180gr JSP's, and simply didn't notice until after I fired the Keiths.

But I like these grips, both for aesthetics, and also because with a Simply Rugged pancake and an overshirt, they allow N-Frame CCW. (Wore this today while out shopping with the lady at a nearby mall, didn't get a second glance.)

Rich Miranda · August 30, 2009, 02:01 PM

MLeake, if I were you, I would cut and paste this thread into an MS Word doc then print it so you can save it for posterity. Also save any correspondence between yourself, Corbon, and Smith & Wesson, along with the photos you posted. This is a great story of how S&W custom-built a gun just for you that you can tell forever. Your descendants, with the documentation noted, will be able to do the same. A bona fide treasure.

fightingbard · August 30, 2009, 02:02 PM

+1 on that...
Wonderful thread....

All the best

Cold Steel · August 30, 2009, 03:14 PM

It's a great looking piece, and a fascinating story.

I wonder, though, at how the squib happened. Doesn't Corbon have a device that weighs each finished round to determine that all the components are there? I suppose a primer could have failed to fully ignite, not fully burning the powder. Just shows that nothing's perfect.

Our local range has a rogue's gallery of guns that have been destroyed on their range through faulty hand loading. It's fairly interesting to look at them.

MLeake · August 30, 2009, 03:34 PM

... along with a couple other guys at the shop. (They are neighbors of mine, at least if you count a half hour drive as neighborly).

The consensus was that while factory ammo squibs are supposedly a 1:1,000,000 occurrence, the gun shop guys estimate that 2 out of 10 shooters they know has encountered an issue with factory ammunition at some point.

Anecdotal, vs statistical, to be sure. I suspect they aren't too far off, though.

MLeake · August 30, 2009, 03:36 PM

... I still haven't tried out the revolver in SA mode.

I'll have to do that later this week, when it stops raining up here.

Cheers,

M

gun nut · August 30, 2009, 03:43 PM

Glad to hear everything worked out so well. Its nice to know s&w and corbon went the extra distance.

JWT · August 30, 2009, 03:50 PM

Great job on keeping everyone informed on the 'event'. Corbon and S&W are certainly commended on their cutsomer service. MLeake is equally commended on posting an outstanding thread that kept readers completely updated on a fascinating tale.

August 20, 2009, 10:05 PM	#26
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I've heard good things about Peter Pi... ... but I haven't met nor spoken with the gentleman. I can say that Ross Botha, one of their sales and service reps, is a good example of the type of person a company should want as their representative. I'm also impressed with Mike Shovel, even if I think I may have misspelled his name (I've spoken with him over the phone, but have had no email correspondence with him).

August 20, 2009, 10:06 PM	#27
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	That's wonderful news, and a credit to both companies. Did CorBon ever divulge the lot numbers for the ammunition that caused the squib? __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

August 20, 2009, 10:10 PM	#28
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Lot numbers I don't know; I passed the lot number to them from the box, but I don't know if a recall or anything of the sort was initiated. Maybe some of the dealers in the forum would know the answer to that question.

August 20, 2009, 11:00 PM	#30
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Terrific story you've got here, I'm eager to see pictures of the new revolver. This is one of those tales that should, hopefully, make it's way around the 'net. Really, really cool. Outrageous that S&W was willing & able to just build one at the drop of a hat. Seems like they could have made it even a little bit better-- call you up one morning and ask you what you'd like for a personalized serial number! You'd pretty much have to call this new revolver a one off, wouldn't you? Sure would if it had a unique serial number! Hell, maybe my mind is wandering now, but you should contact Roy Jinks for a factory letter. His research will leave the logs and history of his office and lead him to the factory to talk to the folks that handled the build and processing of it. What a great story. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

August 20, 2009, 11:28 PM	#31
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	It wasn't an assurance, obviously It was an initial assessment. They changed their minds, and opted for a better choice all around. Better for me, because I get a revolver in good working order. Better for both Cor-Bon and Smith & Wesson, for two reasons: 1) They get much better PR, and deservedly so; and 2) They both minimize liability in the event of malfunctions after I receive the replacement revolver; in fact, Cor-Bon effectively eliminates liability for themselves, because this is a brand new Smith revolver now. Smith and Wesson makes themselves no more liable than they would be for any new S&W revolver. If they had repaired a truly damaged revolver, and sent it back, they'd have potentially exposed themselves to some bad lawsuits down the way if anything had gone wrong. I'm not the litigious sort, but I'm not the type of person most cost-benefit analysts have in mind when they ponder potential lawsuits. Like I said, we all benefit. However, they really didn't have to go to this level of trouble and expense. I'd have accepted whatever they had handy, so long as it had a 4" or 5" barrel (it's a hiking gun, not a primary hunting or silhouette gun, as I use it). The option they chose meant extra time, effort, and cost for both companies. Believe it or not, I think they did this just because they felt it was the right thing to do. I know I'm impressed.

August 20, 2009, 10:17 PM	#29
isanchez2008 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2008 Location: WA Posts: 344	Was unsure about Corbon. Glad to hear they treated you right! I will send them some buisness when its time to cycle out my carry ammo. Them being an outstanding company for CS I don't expect any problems with their loads.

August 21, 2009, 05:16 AM	#32
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: La. Posts: 349	Good Deal ...glad both companies stepped up...Way to go...I think I'll go buy some corbon ammo as a way of saying thanks.... Pictures of the new gun would be nice...It's "special" you know __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die STOLEN COLT NIGHT DEFENDER sn NDF0311 Mason Rhea Gsd

August 21, 2009, 06:02 AM	#33
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	The new gun... ... should arrive at my FFL around the middle of next week. However, I may not be home until Thursday or Friday, so pictures may not be up until next weekend. But I'll definitely post some.

August 21, 2009, 09:10 AM	#34
spleify Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 151	Scary story, I'm glad to hear no injuries resulted from this hishap. Good to know that both companies took such good care of you. I also own a S&W, so its comforting to know there customer service is so good.

August 29, 2009, 06:20 PM	#35
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	It came in yesterday... ... but I had to wait until today to pick it up. Unfortunately, light is a bit dim for good pictures right now. I'll try to get some tomorrow. It's a beauty, though. They put Ahrend's round butt finger-groove woods on it. Cor-Bon and S&W have given me a better revolver than the one that was destroyed. It shoots pretty well, too. Recoil with 180gr Remington Magnum and 255gr Keith Buffalo Bore loads was manageable; the flash was more noticeable than the recoil. (Vision momentarily blanked out after each shot; the thing puts out some flames.) After figuring out the sight picture, it was no trouble to keep rounds in the center of the forehead of my Zombie target. Note: I would definitely prefer one of my .45 or 9mm semi-autos for HD / SD vs humans; my follow-up shot capability with the Mountain Gun leaves a lot to be desired. But for putting one or two hard shots into a 4-legged aggressor, this revolver is just fine by me. I do think that if I were going to shoot magnum loads as a routine thing, I'd either change the grips or start using a glove. I like the Ahrend's grips a lot, and will leave them on, but between the recoil and the exposed backstrap, I noticed after shooting a box of 180's and 5 rounds of BB that I'd torn the skin off a whitewater paddling callus on my right thumb. Minimal blood, but the new skin underneath was a bit sensitive, so I called it a day at that point. Once I acquire some reloading equipment and some skill in its use, I plan to take my .44 magnum brass and make some hot .44 special loads. I'll use the Keith loads in the woods, and the hot specials for range and HD. I am extremely impressed with Cor-Bon's customer service and S&W's ingenuity in the handling of this situation. They did far more than I could have reasonably expected, and quite frankly they did a lot more than I had asked them to do.

August 29, 2009, 07:04 PM	#36
Gun 4 Fun Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 956	That's great that you are happy. It makes me like Cor Bon and Smith even better now to. __________________ S&WCA member NRA member NAHC Life member

August 30, 2009, 02:37 AM	#37
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	MLeake,glad you posted of your good outcome. Sometimes we hear only the bad and we fail to report the good. Congrats on your new and improved 29

August 30, 2009, 07:04 AM	#38
Rich Miranda Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2008 Location: San Antonio, not San Antone... Posts: 1,203	I just found this thread, but as a loyal Cor-Bon customer, I am happy to hear the good news and will buy even more of their products now that I know they are a stand-up company! __________________ Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it.

August 30, 2009, 01:18 PM	#40
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Pictures, a couple anyway... First, one of me and the new revolver, for scale. I'm about 6ft, 220. And, the 5-shot test group of Buffalo Bore 255gr HC Keith loads. Right after this group was fired, I noticed I'd mildly shredded my thumb (callus from previous week's whitewater paddling was hanging off by one piece of bleeding, healthy skin...), so I called it quits. Like I said, for full-house magnum loads, if I keep these grips on it, I will practice with a glove. Pretty sure I tore myself up on the Remington 180gr JSP's, and simply didn't notice until after I fired the Keiths. But I like these grips, both for aesthetics, and also because with a Simply Rugged pancake and an overshirt, they allow N-Frame CCW. (Wore this today while out shopping with the lady at a nearby mall, didn't get a second glance.)

August 30, 2009, 02:01 PM	#41
Rich Miranda Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2008 Location: San Antonio, not San Antone... Posts: 1,203	MLeake, if I were you, I would cut and paste this thread into an MS Word doc then print it so you can save it for posterity. Also save any correspondence between yourself, Corbon, and Smith & Wesson, along with the photos you posted. This is a great story of how S&W custom-built a gun just for you that you can tell forever. Your descendants, with the documentation noted, will be able to do the same. A bona fide treasure. __________________ Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me. Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it.

August 30, 2009, 02:02 PM	#42
fightingbard Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2009 Posts: 169	+1 on that... Wonderful thread.... All the best __________________ I like blades even more...

August 30, 2009, 03:14 PM	#43
Cold Steel Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2006 Posts: 100	It's a great looking piece, and a fascinating story. I wonder, though, at how the squib happened. Doesn't Corbon have a device that weighs each finished round to determine that all the components are there? I suppose a primer could have failed to fully ignite, not fully burning the powder. Just shows that nothing's perfect. Our local range has a rogue's gallery of guns that have been destroyed on their range through faulty hand loading. It's fairly interesting to look at them.

August 30, 2009, 03:34 PM	#44
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	I had a discussion about this with Tom Servo, yesterday... ... along with a couple other guys at the shop. (They are neighbors of mine, at least if you count a half hour drive as neighborly). The consensus was that while factory ammo squibs are supposedly a 1:1,000,000 occurrence, the gun shop guys estimate that 2 out of 10 shooters they know has encountered an issue with factory ammunition at some point. Anecdotal, vs statistical, to be sure. I suspect they aren't too far off, though.

August 30, 2009, 03:36 PM	#45
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	It just occurred to me... ... I still haven't tried out the revolver in SA mode. I'll have to do that later this week, when it stops raining up here. Cheers, M

August 30, 2009, 03:43 PM	#46
gun nut Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 303	Glad to hear everything worked out so well. Its nice to know s&w and corbon went the extra distance. __________________ The only stupid question is the one not asked! (Unknown)

August 30, 2009, 03:50 PM	#47
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Great job on keeping everyone informed on the 'event'. Corbon and S&W are certainly commended on their cutsomer service. MLeake is equally commended on posting an outstanding thread that kept readers completely updated on a fascinating tale.