Shooting the Liberator Pistol - Page 2

Bitmap · February 11, 2009, 09:21 AM

Just take a file to that rear sight. You should be able to get it to zero.

SilentHitz · February 11, 2009, 09:23 AM

I know you were kidding Bitmap...at least I hope you were.

hogdogs · February 11, 2009, 09:35 AM

I bet as many krauts fell to a head shot when the soldier was actually going for COM...

I am guessing the 1 foot at 20 feet would be close to POA/POI with 50 or so feet.
Cool to see the old tin pistol still hacking holes in stuff!
Brent

Sevens · February 11, 2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

The prices ranged from around $1700 to $2250 on five of them, and almost four thousand on the sixth because it had all its original accoutrements; Gun, outer box, inner box, ten rounds of '42 FA factory ammo, cardboard ammo box, instructions, ejector dowel, and spacer block. The spacer block was just a small block of wood that kept things in place inside the box.

This was posted in 2005, I wonder how selling prices on these look today?

History, for sure. You've got to be a hardcore collector to have one of these pieces in your collection. Either you bought it ($$$$$) or you have it, knowing you could sell it for $$$$$$.

I'd definitely shoot one if someone offered it up for a shot. If I found one or was gifted one, I'd have that SOB sold ASAP.

Sevens · February 11, 2009, 10:09 AM

Heh, GB has two current. Cheaper one is $2,000, nicer one is $3,000. Niether has box or goodies. The $3,000 one looks new.

Jbar4Ranch · February 11, 2009, 11:18 AM

It has been fired once more since this write up, by a friend of mine from Michigan, and that will likely be the last shot until it eventually passes on to someone else.

I had a second one, a factory cut down, that was used to show workers and military/government liaisons how it went together and functioned. It was owned by George Hyde after the war, one of the original designers of the gun, and was one of only two confirmed to have been cut down at the factory and used as such. A collector in Indiana made me an offer I couldn't refuse, so it is no longer with me.

I also have thirteen of the original FA42 headstamped .45 acp rounds that were packaged with these, and one original instruction sheet.

bufordtjustice · February 11, 2009, 02:19 PM

Jbar,

Thanks again for the post. I really enjoyed reading it.

SIGSHR · February 11, 2009, 03:42 PM

Thanks for sharing with us. Since these guns were probably designed and assembled by "workers" and not gun people, I suspect they were never even
test fired, hence the fact that the sights are so far off was never really discovered. I note that all of my BP revolvers and pistols shoot high-9-12"-for me, and my Star Model B also shoots about 6" high.

#1 Moses · February 11, 2009, 07:13 PM

When i was young & dumb I was dragged to a small gun show way north of my town of Pittsburgh, Pa my friend was a avid parker, lefever shot gun guy. Would scour the small out of the way gun shows in local fire halls. Me being a pistolero I check out some of the pistols. one table a old timer had the liberators one nice two other with surface rust and pits we chatted about them as a veteran I knew about them from books but had never seen one in person. Im guess this was about 1980 or so. the old fellow eyes lit up when he saw I was intrested. the price tags read the best one $65.00 the other two rusty ones $30.00 and $25.00. I had no idea how rare they were thought about buying the nicest one. then decided no way!! But I was thinkin offer pap $100.00 for all three he might have went for it! Young and Dumb!!

**JohnKSa** · February 12, 2009, 01:32 AM

Interesting writeup. Thanks for taking the time.

vox rationis · February 13, 2009, 11:54 PM

That's really neat...you are like one of those historian investigators that put to test historical technology to gain a better understanding of how things really happened.

But I'm stunned that a rudimentary zip gun, with a smooth bore barrel, displayed such precision and obtained a sub 2" 5 shot group at 20 feet!

saspic · February 14, 2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

originally posted by Dave R
Will it be the prototype for the Kel-Tec P4ty-Five?

Well, on a tangent, the Kahr P45 has been released.
http://kahr.com/PA-1_45acp_p.html
As well as the TP45 CW45, and PM45.
http://kahr.com/PA-1_45acp.html

hduke1982 · March 15, 2011, 04:03 PM

Both guns,Liberator and Deer gun are rare to find these day's. I my self have never fired ether. My grand father Russel James moure past down the liberator pistol and deer gun to me and my brother Bradly moure. When he passed away in 1984. Along with an extensive collection of blue prints and designs. I'm very proud of my grandfather and love the history behind these guns.

PeterC · March 30, 2011, 02:01 PM

As you may have heard, there's an outfit in KY, Vintage Ordnance Company (www.VintageOrdnance.com) that is making a replica of this pistol. Price is $599.50, which is a fraction of what you'd pay for an original. It's made from better materials than the original, and has the BATF-required rifling and discretely marked serial number and manufacturer's name and address, plus exact replicas of the original box, instructions, "ejector" dowel, etc. Given the design's inherent lack of safety, the maker strongly recommends that it not be fired.

Usertag · March 30, 2011, 02:04 PM

I have wanted to shoot a liberator for so long. It's basically a dream of mine. But it's funny how that gun only shoot's .45ACP at 900ft/s.

brickeyee · March 30, 2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

It's interesting to know those Liberators shoot a foot high at 20 feet. I wonder how many resistance fighters missed a close head shot? With the 230-grain ball, it would group even higher wouldn't it?

That is about 40 times (or more) its intended range.

This was a 'put it against the guy and pull the trigger' type weapon.

If you need another shot, pick up HIS gun and use it.

Shooting at contact distance will also help muffle the sound of the shot.

Jbar4Ranch · March 31, 2011, 10:44 AM

I still have it, and my Michigan buddy remains the last person to have shot it.

As a side note, the Vintage Ordnance copies, as received, are NON-FIRING replicas, as the hole in the breech plate for the firing pin is not drilled at the factory. They do, however, tell you exactly where and how to drill the hole... while recommending NOT to do it... and state that it is not meant to be fired...

CYA! I suppose a person could be in violation of Federal law by drilling said hole... ATF might construe this as being a manufacturer... I dunno.

These guns, even Vintage Ordnance repros, won't hold up to more than about 50 standard pressure rounds before the breech plate and its support guides are bent to the point of being inoperable or possibly even structural failure. The loads I used had just enough powder to poot the projectile out the barrel and bounce off the plywood backstop, barely leaving a dent in the wood.

mavracer · March 31, 2011, 11:16 AM

Thanks for sharing this with us

February 11, 2009, 10:09 AM	#30
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Heh, GB has two current. Cheaper one is $2,000, nicer one is $3,000. Niether has box or goodies. The $3,000 one looks new. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 11, 2009, 11:18 AM	#31
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	It has been fired once more since this write up, by a friend of mine from Michigan, and that will likely be the last shot until it eventually passes on to someone else. I had a second one, a factory cut down, that was used to show workers and military/government liaisons how it went together and functioned. It was owned by George Hyde after the war, one of the original designers of the gun, and was one of only two confirmed to have been cut down at the factory and used as such. A collector in Indiana made me an offer I couldn't refuse, so it is no longer with me. I also have thirteen of the original FA42 headstamped .45 acp rounds that were packaged with these, and one original instruction sheet. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

February 12, 2009, 01:32 AM	#35
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	Interesting writeup. Thanks for taking the time. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

March 30, 2011, 02:01 PM	#39
PeterC Junior Member Join Date: October 29, 2009 Location: Green Valley, AZ Posts: 2	Shooting the Liberator Pistol As you may have heard, there's an outfit in KY, Vintage Ordnance Company (www.VintageOrdnance.com) that is making a replica of this pistol. Price is $599.50, which is a fraction of what you'd pay for an original. It's made from better materials than the original, and has the BATF-required rifling and discretely marked serial number and manufacturer's name and address, plus exact replicas of the original box, instructions, "ejector" dowel, etc. Given the design's inherent lack of safety, the maker strongly recommends that it not be fired.

March 31, 2011, 10:44 AM	#42
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	I still have it, and my Michigan buddy remains the last person to have shot it. As a side note, the Vintage Ordnance copies, as received, are NON-FIRING replicas, as the hole in the breech plate for the firing pin is not drilled at the factory. They do, however, tell you exactly where and how to drill the hole... while recommending NOT to do it... and state that it is not meant to be fired... CYA! I suppose a person could be in violation of Federal law by drilling said hole... ATF might construe this as being a manufacturer... I dunno. These guns, even Vintage Ordnance repros, won't hold up to more than about 50 standard pressure rounds before the breech plate and its support guides are bent to the point of being inoperable or possibly even structural failure. The loads I used had just enough powder to poot the projectile out the barrel and bounce off the plywood backstop, barely leaving a dent in the wood. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

February 11, 2009, 09:21 AM	#26
Bitmap Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Posts: 388	Just take a file to that rear sight. You should be able to get it to zero.

February 11, 2009, 09:23 AM	#27
SilentHitz Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Ms. Posts: 1,984	I know you were kidding Bitmap...at least I hope you were.

February 11, 2009, 09:35 AM	#28
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I bet as many krauts fell to a head shot when the soldier was actually going for COM... I am guessing the 1 foot at 20 feet would be close to POA/POI with 50 or so feet. Cool to see the old tin pistol still hacking holes in stuff! Brent

February 11, 2009, 02:19 PM	#32
bufordtjustice Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Posts: 279	Jbar, Thanks again for the post. I really enjoyed reading it.

February 11, 2009, 03:42 PM	#33
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Thanks for sharing with us. Since these guns were probably designed and assembled by "workers" and not gun people, I suspect they were never even test fired, hence the fact that the sights are so far off was never really discovered. I note that all of my BP revolvers and pistols shoot high-9-12"-for me, and my Star Model B also shoots about 6" high.

February 11, 2009, 07:13 PM	#34
#1 Moses Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2008 Posts: 114	When i was young & dumb I was dragged to a small gun show way north of my town of Pittsburgh, Pa my friend was a avid parker, lefever shot gun guy. Would scour the small out of the way gun shows in local fire halls. Me being a pistolero I check out some of the pistols. one table a old timer had the liberators one nice two other with surface rust and pits we chatted about them as a veteran I knew about them from books but had never seen one in person. Im guess this was about 1980 or so. the old fellow eyes lit up when he saw I was intrested. the price tags read the best one $65.00 the other two rusty ones $30.00 and $25.00. I had no idea how rare they were thought about buying the nicest one. then decided no way!! But I was thinkin offer pap $100.00 for all three he might have went for it! Young and Dumb!!

February 13, 2009, 11:54 PM	#36
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	That's really neat...you are like one of those historian investigators that put to test historical technology to gain a better understanding of how things really happened. But I'm stunned that a rudimentary zip gun, with a smooth bore barrel, displayed such precision and obtained a sub 2" 5 shot group at 20 feet!

March 15, 2011, 04:03 PM	#38
hduke1982 Junior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Posts: 1	Both guns,Liberator and Deer gun are rare to find these day's. I my self have never fired ether. My grand father Russel James moure past down the liberator pistol and deer gun to me and my brother Bradly moure. When he passed away in 1984. Along with an extensive collection of blue prints and designs. I'm very proud of my grandfather and love the history behind these guns.

March 30, 2011, 02:04 PM	#40
Usertag Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: Louisville Posts: 261	I have wanted to shoot a liberator for so long. It's basically a dream of mine. But it's funny how that gun only shoot's .45ACP at 900ft/s.