Dad-gum-it! It's moron hunting season

[Kcustom45]

Living in Indiana almost my entire life and recently visiting family in California I completely agree with 4V50 Gary.

I also agree with Waterdog. If people want to own guns of any kind they should have to go through training; no training, means no license. And God have mercy on their soul if they are caught with alcohol in their house. If caught with alcohol they should be banned from owning guns. And we the gun owning activists, should be the ones to push for this type of restriction.

Come on now...

[Monkeyleg]

Kcustom45: who would set the standards for testing? The same Fraternal Order of Police who are trying to kill the CCW bill in Ohio by demanding that they be the arbiters of standards?

Alcohol in their house should be a reason to disqualifty someone from owning a gun? In the bloodstream while handling a gun, maybe. But that's a pretty blanket prohibition that you propose.

Think about what you're proposing. It comes very close to what the anti's want right now.

[labgrade]

I think Kcustom45's was his [/sarcasm].

[stickslinger]

I know that we, hunters, have already been articulately defended in some of the above posts, but I have to weigh in.

Drzzt, you're stereotyping hunters much in the same way that anti's stereotype gun owners. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a "responsible, non hunting" gun owner show me his piece or collection and me have to grab a muzzle and push it away from my head! I had a customer show me an admirable collection of assault rifles and handguns only to have him point one of the handguns at me when he went to unload it so that I could handle it. Hmmm! I ran into another non hunter at a practical pistol match with his $5000 race gun that couldn't manage to keep his weapon pointed down range and acted like a spoiled kid when the rangemaster stopped him in the middle of his round.

Incidentally, that customer hadn't been to a range in over a year and looked unfamiliar with the loaded assault rifle that hung on his office wall.

Guess what, I have beer in my hunting camp as well!!!!!!!!!

Do I get drunk and go hunting? Not any more often than YOU get drunk and go to the range!!!!! Do some of you come home from a range outing with your buddies and have a few beers. What's the difference?

And lastly, we're not all plumbers or blue collar low wage earning red necks. I hunt with a yacht broker, a real estate broker married to a lawyer, a salesman in the oil industry, and I myself own a small air conditioning business.

While we all hear of your above described morons, I don't personally know any or hunt with any. The few times I've been in a social setting with someone that wasn't being an ethical or safe hunter, I've politely tried to impart some wisdom on him or her. If that fails, I hunt with others in other places.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but keep it in perspective .

[Kcustom45]

You got it Labgrade.

[KSFreeman]

stick, I don't think anyone would say that ALL hunters are slobs. However, they do exist.

The best way to get rid of them is to end the unfair and outrageous exploitation of shooters who must carry the hunters' water every time they buy a box of .22s. Once government subsidies of the flannels ends, they will be forced to regulate themselves to ensure the continued existance of sport hunting. The flannels will be in position where they must behave themselves which is what we all wish.

[sully]

I grew up in a very rural area in New Hampshire. It was a sportsman's dream. Every year at hunting season, we would get an influx of hunters coming up from MA. The foolishness was truly amazing. We had lost hunters show up once on our doorstep convinced they had walked to Canada. (Sorry guys, takes more than a few hours to make that journey.) There were a number of locals shot in their own yards, mistaken for deer, etc. All the usual stories.

This kind of crap happens, and yes, statistically, there are probably fewer morons with guns in the woods, than there are morons with SUV's on the road, but they are still there. And by being there, they give the antis more ammo.

It's just all the more reason why we need to police ourselves, and practice responsibility with our firearms. We have to clearly demonstrate that these morons are just that, morons and nothing more. They are not representative of the great majority of hunters and sportsmen out there.

[FPrice]

"Dad-gum-it! It's moron hunting season

by Howie Carr"

I listen to Howie just about every afternoon and this is classic Howie Carr.

First off, he DOES support the Second Amendment, although in his own curmudgeonly way he is rather "red-neck" in his methodology and terminology when discussing gun-related issues. I think most TFL'ers could be a bit more accurate in our discussions than Howie is. But bless his Boston metropolitan heart he tries.

He does tend to highlight and use negative examples when he addresses problems in almost any area. That is his style and it seems to be effective, even if it offends some of the defenders of the subject on hand (not just hunting).

But most hunters do not fall into the categories of behaviors he describes, yet these are the examples that most of the non-hunting/gun-owning public sees more often than the safe and respectful hunter. It's too-bad that the slob hunters out there cannot see and recognize themselves in this article. But then, if they could, they probably would not be slobs in the first place.

[M1911]

And lastly, we're not all plumbers or blue collar low wage earning red necks. I hunt with a yacht broker, a real estate broker married to a lawyer, a salesman in the oil industry, and I myself own a small air conditioning business.

I'm a hunter. I'm a software developer for a biotech company (as long as I don't get laid off next week...). My hunting partner is a Lt. Col. in the National Guard. We're both NRA certified instructors. He's also a hunter safety instructor. Are there slob hunters? Yes, there are. And we shouldn't tolerate them. But they are not the majority.

[buzz_knox]

There's one benefit to this. If you have to justify purchasing body armor to yourself or a significant other, you can use the need to be protected while hunting as an excuse.

[Redlg155]

In my view the plight of the hunter closely parallels that of the recreational shooter and gunowner. Both contibute millions of dollars to our economy and both suffer when there is a shooting incident. I've seen stupid actions from both.

As others have said, fortunately they are a minority. Still, they give the sport a black eye.

On the other hand I detest stereotyping of hunters in general as in the articles remarks. Perhaps there would be more of an understanding of guns and hunting if our society wasn't composed of mostly consumers instead of hunter/gatherers. Folks have forgotten how to hunt. Forgotten about firearms ownership and protection. Forgotten how to educate their children. Instead they rely on others for all their needs and let the Govt take responsibility for educating thier children.

Hmmm....kinda went off the subject there for a sec, but I think you all understand.

Good Shooting
RED

[Monkeyleg]

Sorry I missed the sarcasm, Kcustom45. I've been pretty dense the last few days, even moreso than usual.

[PaladinVC]

There are a lot of hunters who fire maybe five rounds a year. Two to sight in their rifle, and three to miss animals. They don't clean the guns, don't oil them, don't take care of the various external "furniture", and as a result, have once-decent firarms that are now barely functional, much less pretty. It's a constant source of horror for me to see the condition of some people's rifles and shotguns. You see them at gun shows all the time. Only 100 rounds through it, and there's residue in there from every single one. These guys never practice, they barely even look at the thing unless they're wondering what part of it they sat on. The worst part is knowing that these people teach their kids how to "use" a gun. Just terrible.

However, this is a minority of hunters, in my experience. Most of the guys I know take good care of their various guns and teach their kids to use them responsibly and well for recreation and sport. Sure, stories about idiots are way funnier than stories about responsible people, but that's no reason to think they outnumber us.

P.S. - Hkmp5sd, my money's on Raistlin. Didn't he approach godhood at one point? Of course, he promptly died...

[Pat Bateman]

Yeah, wasn't there a 'study' in the last couple years that said college students who own firearms were more likely to abuse alcohol, or college students who abuse alcohol were more likely to own firearms, or some crap like that...

What I want to know, is when it's debutante season, what's the best equipment to use?

[454c]

The really sad part is most people read or hear one sided stories putting down hunting or hunters and believe it.They don't try to find out if it's true or not and don't read or hear anything says otherwise.
I've been shooting guns and hunting since I was 5.I was finally able to buy land a few years ago and also help my in-laws take care of their farm.We've had fences pushed down,cut,gates destroyed,signs pulled down,etc. and one of the things I've noticed is the majority of the people that do this are people who don't own their own land and don't want to.It boils down to a lack of one thing -RESPECT.No respect for the land owner,for the game they hunt,for others around them,for the weapon they are using,etc.

[M1911]

If you have to justify purchasing body armor to yourself or a significant other, you can use the need to be protected while hunting as an excuse.

Most soft body armor is easily defeated by ANY rifle round.

[Matthew Courtney]

Some folks here are accepting an overbroad definition of a hunter. A hunter obeys all game and other laws while he is hunting. Anyone else is poaching. Hunting without the landowners permission is poaching. Being drunk while hunting is poaching. Not knowing 100% for sure that your target is in season is poaching. Anyone who shoots a pony or goat is just as much a poacher as one who shines deer. Honest hunters and landholders shoud not mistake these criminals for hunters. They are criminals and need to be treated as such

[Justin]

I think that with hunters, as with any other sport/pastime/lifestyle you can break it down into subsets. There are indeed hunters that are safe, sane, and follow the rules (the majority), and there are the idiots (the minority).
But above and beyond that, there is also the same issue with many hunters as there is with, for example, many skeet shooters. Many hunters are only concerned about their little part of the 2nd amendment.
They're happy to support registration, bans on handguns or so-called assault weapons, just so long as no one is trying to legislate their deer rifle out of existence.

The way I look at it can be summed up thusly:
Regardless of your chosen favorite: hunting, skeet, IPSC, IDPA, Bullseye, highpower, 3 gun, or just plain backyard plinking, you either believe in the right to keep and bear arms or you don't.

[KSFreeman]

caliban, yeah, but you could pay your own way regardless. Hunters don't.

[butchb243]

I don't want to ban hunting, but I'd have ZERO problems if they stopped shotgun season in Ohio.

Swingset one of the ways that has worked here is take down the posted signs & no hunting signs . Then put up sings that say Hunters Welcome Leases 1000.00$ a day . Hunt guarenteed .
At the end of the day if they dont have their deer you may have to refund the money but at least you know who they are.
You more than likely wont be asked or bothered again but if you are then take the money & their name & address & let them hunt. You get extra money or no hunters, nobody loses. If they do tresspass anyway let the game warden collect your fees for you.

[butchb243]

KSFreeman

caliban, yeah, but you could pay your own way regardless. Hunters don't.

You may not know this but much of the money you are griping about going to hunters is also being spent to build & maintain public shooting ranges. In Texas almost a third of all Pittman Robinson money spent is for range development.
You are more than likely getting as much use from your money as the hunters but the real free ride goes to the bird watchers who pay nothing to the general fund for wildlife.

[H&K Fan]

Hunting season, heck. Try the shooting range the week before the season opens. People who flat out do not know how the firearm(s) they are shooting operate, people who show up with their children and no hearing/vision protection for any member of their party, etc. Loaned a guy a rest and he sat down with a .300 Winchester magnum. By the second or third shot, it was painful just to watch. I'm not sure he was even hitting the 50 yard (!) target by the fourth or fifth shot. Saw another once a year person unload a .30-30 by cycling the action, followed by pulling the trigger followed immediately by the sound of a round headed somewhere in the sky. He did this while another shooter was downrange checking his targets. Got smart this year and stayed away from the range. Did not miss a bit of it.

[Waterdog]

K45, don't put words in my mouth, not even in jest.

I never said, gunowners should be licensed.

Hunters are already required to be lisenced, so a hunters safety course, wouldn't in any way, place anymore of a burden than the original requirements to hunt.

And for alcohol, I drink occasionally, but not when I am shooting or hunting.

I think you got to be MORON!, to drink and handle firearms at the same time.

Waterdog