brass alert

[georgehwbush]

bought a can of 556 mil reject to plink with, they are stamped "PPU 5.56 x 45 nato" ; they fire ok and accuracy is about average. but i have a few that split the case mouth.

that should not happen with new factory ammo.

[Marco Califo]

You bought rejects.
You determined the cause of rejection.
It was not new factory ammo.

[georgehwbush]

they were on the civilion market, for general consumption. i can only assume they failed accuracy requirements. that seems to be the most common test failure.

[georgehwbush]

just what is "XM193"

mil-reject.

[44 AMP]

just what is "XM193"

In standard US military terminology, "X" designates a prototype. XM193 would be the designation for the prototype M193 round.

That being said, a foreign ammo maker can put any name on anything they want, until/unless they get sued in US court for trademark/patent/intellectual property violations.

Never saw any ammo with the word "nato" stamped on the case, I don't think that stamp actually meets NATO requirements. The stamp I've seen on all ammo that meets (or was made to meet) NATO specs is a cross in a circle.

[georgehwbush]

44amp you are correct, it doesn't say nato . i didn't look closely enough. it says "PPU 5.56x45 mm 0" with the cross in the circle. without my glasses i just assumed i was seeing nato rather than mm o the wrighting is very small on these cases. but that's no excuse. i beg enumerble pardons.


still the case mouth should not be splitting on any of them.

not on a factory load shot from a rifle it was designed for.

[georgehwbush]

if anyone cares it's from lot # "PPU 20004-09 "

[44 AMP]

PPU might care. Then again, they might not. Have you contacted them about it??

and just curious, are they boxer or berdan primed??

There are, generally speaking, two attitudes you find when you have an issue like this. Some companies will be glad to hear they have /had a bad batch so they can figure out what happened and fix it. Some will even give you goodies for being nice enough to report it to them.

The other attitude is essentially blowing you off, because "there is no problem" the ammo worked (once) as it was designed to do.

[stagpanther]

Circle with cross is Nato. I didn't know there was a market for "defective" ammo--sounds like liability looking for a place to happen. I've used PPU ammo and brass for many years, for budget grade stuff I've found it to be really very good performing and their brass tough stuff--I used their 375 H&H brass to make my 7mm STW brass and it will probably outlast the barrel. If you're getting split necks on first firings I would suspect something is definitely wrong with the ammo and would suspend using it.

[georgehwbush]

( ... suspend using it.) well.

i've got near a thousand rounds of it... i don't think i will suspend using it over 2 out of the first 120 splitting the case mouth. it hair lips the case sure but so far it's less than a 2% loss, if it increases i'll do something about it.

[georgehwbush]

(just curious, are they boxer or berdan primed??) sorry, brain misfiring atm. the one with the single flash hole in the center.... boxer i think? anyway yeah i was aimed to reload them.

[Unclenick]

M193 was the US Army load in Vietnam. NATO rejected its adoption because it failed a NATO penetration test requirement. In order to get a version of the cartridge that would pass, the SS109 round was developed. M855 is the US NATO-compatible equivalent to SS109, and it will have both the NATO crosshair and four-leaf-clover markings if it is made to spec. I think the rules will allow the NATO crosshair symbol on M193 if it can function all the NATO weapons SS109 and M855 do, but not the four-leaf-clover, as that symbol indicates a ballistic match to NATO-adopted ammo.

[stagpanther]

it hair lips the case sure but so far it's less than a 2% loss, if it increases i'll do something about it.

You answered your own question...that was easy.

[georgehwbush]

stagpanther ? sorry what question ?

[stagpanther]

stagpanther ? sorry what question ?

Splitting necks. You didn't explicitly pose the issue as a question but said it shouldn't happen--but then said a rate of about 2% was OK as long as long as it doesn't get worse. I used to buy PPU 5.56 "battle packs" frequently, usually 250 or 500 at a time--it might not have been the same stuff you got--I recall it shot better than Federal's bulk stuff and I really liked their brass. I don't recall split necks being an issue. As pointed out by unclenick and others sounds like older "retired" ammo.

[44 AMP]

Ammo that just barely fails to meet military spec is technically "reject" ammo, it can be good ammo, but there is no guarantee. Often it gets put on the civilian market, along with "Contract overrun" ammo. There are many possibilities, ranging from good stuff all the way to total crap.

Possible cause for split case mouths on firing is "brittle" brass and there are several possible reasons. Age can be one. Cases not made without just the right temper can "age harden" over time. Extreme cases are called "season cracking" and the case can crack in the box without being fired. Pretty rare these days but something to be aware of if you are dealing with very old ammo.

Another thing that can cause it is degradation of the brass due to decomposition of the powder. This is also usually an age related issue, but not always, it can be the result of improper storage.

As the powder decomposes, it releases nitric acid fumes, which attack the brass. There is a point where this can be happening but the rounds will still fire, but some of the brass will crack. As that process continues, you reach a point where some of the will not fire and some will, and, as time goes on the percentage of failures increases until all the ammo goes bad.

Again, this can be caused by less than the best manufacture (of the powder) or it can be the result of storage under conditions that cause the powder to degrade.

I've personally experienced two instances of this kind of thing.
One was with some .45ACP ammo, back in the 70s, and the other with a batch of 7.62 Nato "surplus" ammo back around 2010 or so.

My Dad got some "surplus" .45 ammo back in the 70s no idea who actually made it, it was in GI cardboard boxes, but the cases were Rem-UMC nickel brass, bullets were 230gr RN FMJ, but there was some discoloring of the tips.

That stuff was crap. 1-3 rnds of each magazine would fail to fire, and of those that did many cracked, and cracked severely, many cracked half way to the case head. The ones that didn't crack were fine, and I've still got some of them in my brass stash, having reloaded them numerous times over the years.

The other time, a friend bought some surplus ammo, and as he puts it, "the only time he didn't open and inspect the ammo before taking it home".
7.62 NATO, the headstamp seemed to match Israeli make (not positive about that) dates of 99, 00, and 01 on the case heads. Came in a cardboard box, loose packed inside a plastic bag. The bag was brittle and crumbled to the touch. There was SAND inside with the ammo...(should have been a giveaway right there...)

He had gotten 500 rnds. We test fired 100. 11 failed to fire. 17 fired but cracked, often right above the head. We tossed that all that brass, and I pulled down the remaining 400 rnds.

Several of the bullets had clumps of powder stuck to the base, with whitish and some bluish discoloration. Definitely degraded powder. Tossed the powder, and the cases, kept the bullets, which once cleaned up were fine.
I think that stuff had been "stored" buried in the desert somewhere, then later dug up and boxed for "surplus" sale. Total crap, other than the bullets.

You might consider pulling the bullets from a few rounds and checking the visual appearance of the powder. Something might be going on there, but there's no guarantee it is to the point you can see it.

If it looks bad, it IS bad, but it can look ok and still be on the way to going bad. If you have all the info (lot#, box markings, etc) you can contact PPU and let them know what is going on. IF they ask for it back, send it, and expect a replacement. If they don't give a rip, live with it and stop buying their stuff is about the only option.

If they offer a replacement, take it. If not, shoot it up (its blaster grade stuff, isn't it?) and use the surviving brass for reloading. Might want to anneal the case necks before reloading, though.

[Black wallnut]

Two points about age hardening
#1

#2
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...y3OPgSwxRqb9L_

Seems to me not likely the cause. Degraded powder, much more likely. Brass perhaps not properly annealed during manufacture is also possible but since 2% is bad, not really buying that either.

If it were me, I would shoot it up and consider the whole lot of brass as disposable or recycle the brass as brass scrap. With the plethora of discarded newly manufactured .223 and 5.56 brass out there why hassle with junk. 2% to me is excessive. I have far less than that over many firings of every single cartridge I reload. Furthermore until a project a bit more than a year ago I had never annealed a case. Buy good brass or buy good ammo with good brass.
Don't over work it or over pressure it and live a long and happy life.

[FITASC]

bought a can of 556 mil reject

And you're wondering why you have some issues?