Do you get strange looks at your range when you exercise while shooting? - Page 2

Mannlicher · December 21, 2007, 01:28 PM

when I shoot up at the Osceola range in lake city, I often run and then shoot, to practice breathing and muscle control. In a time of great social unrest, the confrontations might well be like that, where you have to run to cover, then fight.

Avenger11 · December 21, 2007, 07:20 PM

If you did that at my range, I'd find cover and call 911! Random gyrations like that at a range in Texas could get you either arrested or labeled as one of those "Tip toe thru the tulips" type guys.
Merry Christmas to all.

sethmark · December 21, 2007, 08:27 PM

I might remind those over stress dumbasses that this is america and if you want to swing from the rafters screaming jodies, that's your right.

Avenger11 · December 21, 2007, 08:36 PM

OOOKAY! Can we not resort to name calling from the rafters!!

Harrigan · December 21, 2007, 08:47 PM

Sounds like good excersise to me,as long as you practice safe shooting 1st.

NetJnkie · December 21, 2007, 10:22 PM

Two suggestions:

1. Try competition shooting like USPSA/IPSC or IDPA. It's not uncommon to sprint through a stage and have to shot with your heart rate way up. Plus, that timer adds more stress than you'd think.

2. Try to find a private range. I'm a member of a range here with a private indoor pistol range. During the week at night (it's open 24 hours) I have the place to my self. I doubt most ranges would let me turn off all the lights and practice shooting by tac light.... but I can do it there.

ISC · December 21, 2007, 10:49 PM

wow, this thread really took off.

I can't say that I'm surprised at the derision that some of the responses displayed. I guess I'm taking this stuff seriously because I'm deploying to Afghanistan in 2009 for a combat mission and that's a good motivator. When my unit shoots at the range it is always from a foxhole and prone position. We just recently added the kneeling position to qualification. It was long overdue.

We never shoot pistols because only officers and 240 gunners are issued the M9 and ammo isn't provided for training on non issued weapons. That means that the typical company only gets a few hundred rounds to shoot per year. I will be getting a pistol when I'm over there even if I have to get it in theater and leave it behind when I come home. It's up to me to be prepared to use it.

I do the transition drills I was discussing on the firing line, but do the exercises behind the line.

I am a 11B staff sergeant with over 10 years time in service I have a firearm collection that's bigger and better than most gunshops' inventory. I have competed in local and national competitions and always qualified expert with every weapon I've ever shot for record (SAW, M16, M9, SIG P226).

I only say this to illustrate that I'm not doing this stuff on a lark or that I'm the sort of kid that plays with airsoft and buys throwing stars and big fake knifes and thinks he's a ninja.

I am a warrior and train for war.

I didn't mean to offend any hunters, I hunt too, just not very often or well. I was just trying to show that shooting a deer is a different skill set and mindset than killing a man, and it has implications that many here never seriously consider.

If you haven't done any sort of stressed shooting you have no idea how much that complicates things. It can only be prepared for by training for it. I offered up my method of training for it and asked for other's input. Some of the responses were contemptable.

ssilicon · December 22, 2007, 11:51 AM

I don't exercise at the shooting range. I shoot. I would also probably give someone exercising at the range a strange look, but I wouldn't have anything against such a person.

I can see it now.... "Shootin' to the Oldies"

Denny Hansen · December 22, 2007, 12:30 PM

ISC-
First and above all, a sincere thank you for your service to our country.

If I saw someone exercising at the range I would assume they are doing it for the exact reason you described. Run it by the owner of the range and tell him why your reasoning. Most range owners I know would give you a green light as long as you are being safe. As for others present giving you strange looks? Ignore them.

Denny

capbuster · December 22, 2007, 12:54 PM

A long way back I did some flexing at the range to limber up and proceeded to knock my spotting scope off the bench. No harm done, but I have not repeated the practice.

KS.45 · December 22, 2007, 09:38 PM

I have an exercise pad that I go prone or kneel on. Any tactical movement will appear odd to some range shooters. The best idea is as previously posted. Find a landowner who has a good area for shooting. You can set up however you want and move the same. As long as you have a good backstop, go for it!

DON'T LEAVE TRASH BEHIND!!

Capt. Charlie · December 23, 2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

I am surprised that Captain Charlie has not shut this one down. Come on, exercising at the range???

I admit that I kinda cocked an eyebrow at the "strange looks" part of this, but the idea of training under physical stress is a viable one. I know of some courses of fire that require the shooter to start at the 100 yard line, run to the twenty five, engage, then run to the fifteen and engage multiple targets.

There is a world of difference between shooting in a calm, relaxed condition and shooting while breathing hard with a pulse rate of 120 or more.

Carry on.

OnTheFly · December 23, 2007, 12:35 AM

I get some similar funny looks at the range. What I do is bring a pillow, blanket, and cot. I set them up about 20 yards from the firing line. I place my firearm under the pillow, strip down to my tighty-whiteys (unless it's summer when I normally sleep in the buff), and then lay down in my typical (fetal) sleeping position. I pretend that I hear a noise in my house, I jump up, grab my firearm, and run to the firing line. Sometimes that gets some funny looks...or kicked off the range if it's in the summer time.

In all seriousness ISC, whatever keeps you alive. If I KNEW I was headed to some serious combat, then your method sure sounds like good training to me.

Thanks for serving your country.

Fly

ISC · December 23, 2007, 02:23 PM

The EIC matchs we shot a couple months ago had us running over 100 M for several of the different shoots. One had us climbing stairs to take positions in a window shooting down into a depression at targets at unknown ranges. I completely blew that one, but I think the biggest problem was shooting at targets at unknown ranges and elevations.

The Patton match was a sprint (200 M I think) followed by a pistol shoot, but we had time to catch our breath after the sprint, so the bigger issue was general physical condition than stressed shooting. By that I mean being in good shape allows your heart rate to return to a normal number in a few minutes after the sprint, which is a different issue than training to shoot while your heart rate is high. The first you can train for at the gym, but shooting with a high heart rate needs to be trained for at a range.

Most shooters without real training have a Bunker hill mentality and envision any action they might see as being where they will hunker down behind cover and take slow aimed shots at an adversary approaching over open ground. They don't have any idea of the elements of manuever and tactical movement that are required to be effective as part of a team or small unit.

Some readers here agree with what I'm saying and see the sense in it.

There is also a sizable percentage of the members here who have no idea about the requirements to be effective in a fluid battlefield. The percentage that doesn't have the physical abilities is even larger, and the percentage that doesn't have the training is even larger than that.

There are some guys that have the knowledge but not the physical abilities. Mostly that's because they got injured, old, or fat. That's life. Do the best you can to get in the best shape you can.

There are some guys that have the athletic abilities but not the knowledge. Find one of the guys described above and train.

Then there are the guys that are content "knowing" that they'll never have to take a shot at another human being, or if they ever do it will be zombie hordes that can be picked off at long range until you run out of ammo, and anyone who prepares by tactival shooting is unrealistic.

kgpcr · December 23, 2007, 08:44 PM

Since i am no longer active duty in the Corps i dont think i will have a need to shoot with a high pulse. I dont see a reason to practice it. and Charlie you are so very right about shooting with a high pulse and being out of breath! Its unreal the affect it has on ones shooting.

allenomics · December 23, 2007, 09:33 PM

If you did this in front of others at the indoor range I frequent, you would probably be stopped and questioned.

The range can be a dangerous place, and anything that is perceived to be strange, would make a lot of people nervous.

I'm not saying anything negative about you. I don't even know you.

I think many of us have heard stories about violence, sometimes shooter-self-inflicted at ranges where others are potential victims.

If I we you I'd brief the range master about your intensions and ask permission first.

ISC · December 25, 2007, 06:07 AM

At the range I belong to, anyone can be the range master. We have a orange vest that hangs on the line and whoever is there first is the rangemaster.

There is a range caretaker who is basically a pudgy self important security guard on some sort of power trip, and he tends to hassle anyone that happens to be around, regardless of what they're doing.

Membership is $200/year, I think fo that I deserve to get some training value for my range time.

Avenger11 · December 26, 2007, 05:56 PM

I have an orange hunting vest. Can I be RANGEMASTER. PLEASE!!!!!!

johnnymenudo · December 27, 2007, 01:17 PM

You claim not to be a mall ninja or a kid playing airsoft, yet you come to a public firearm forum looking for approval from a bunch of strangers regarding your training regimen.

If you are being deployed in 2008, work on your PT at a gym and work on your shooting at a range. You will get plenty of chance to integrate the two with a group of professionals in an appropriate environment. If you absolutely cannot stand to wait, try to do it when the place is empty. Why draw attention to yourself? If you insist on following your training regimen, then go ahead and do it but don't be surprised if you are treated like a jerk. You paid for the range membership, as long as you don't violate the rules, then do whatever makes you happiest.

jhansman · December 27, 2007, 02:01 PM

I stretch my back, legs, arms and hands before any range session. I learned long ago that an unstretched body performs more poorly than a stretched one in almost every activity where precision is required. Yes, I get some strange looks, but I just ignore the lookers.

musher · December 27, 2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

You claim not to be a mall ninja or a kid playing airsoft, yet you come to a public firearm forum looking for approval from a bunch of strangers regarding your training regim

I don't remember him asking for approval. He asked for advice for addressing the discomfort other shooters sometimes showed with his program, and he asked what other stress simulation techniques folks here used. Seems like a gun forum is a good place to ask both questions.

I'd take a hard look at someone who was doing such a program at the range, but my concern would be limited to making sure the safety rules were being followed (muzzle control esp). As long as I thought the routine was safe, I'd either ignore it or continue to watch to see if I could learn something.

I've done similar exercises to simulate stress, but never at a public range. I'm lucky in that we have a lot of empty land here where you can go shoot by yourself. If you can find a shooting spot on a hill, you can try hill sprints to the firing point combined with a timed exercise on the targets.

TexasSeaRay · December 27, 2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISC

I was hoping to get an "amen brother" and some ideas about other exercises and stuff to work into my training program. I've thought about carrying a peice of pipe or a weighted axe handle when I run to simulate carrying my rifle, but that's not that big of a concern for me.

As an old vet who's been there and done that as well as done a lot of action competition shooting, I think you're both over-doing it and I think you need to step back and re-examine your attitude.

There are a lot of ways you can practice precision during physical stress/exhaustion. Try throwing darts. It's eye to hand coordination and try doing that after having whipped out four or five dozen pushups or running in place for fifteen minutes.

You can also dry fire--holding a sight picture when breathing and sweating heavily is a lot different than under relaxed, controlled situations.

Lot of things you can do to reach your goal without annoying or disturbing other shooters.

I'm not in the military anymore. Haven't been in a long while. I respect and appreciate those who are, but if I saw you at my range doing what you describe and if it bothered me or my wife, I'd ask you to tone it down. If you didn't, I'd be raising hell with the owner.

You're in the military. You're there to protect and defend your fellow citizens' rights--not use your service as an excuse to do what you want or train how you want at a general public firing range.

Many ranges I've shot at around the country have areas, bays or stalls that you can get that are either segregated from other shooters or are far enough away that your stress-training will not be a distraction. Try asking the rangemaster to assign you to one of those areas.

Or, find out when the range is least busy and try to shoot then.

Lot of things someone who's been around as long as a ssgt should know/be able to do to where this isn't an issue.

You stated yourself that you came here "looking for an amen brother." I'll give you an "amen brother" for serving your country and working to be a better shot, but I'm not going to give you an "amen brother" for thinking that because you're taking shooting more serious that somehow you're entitled to disturb or annoy other shooters.

Jeff

johnnymenudo · December 27, 2007, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by musher

Quote:

I don't remember him asking for approval. He asked for advice for addressing the discomfort other shooters sometimes showed with his program, and he asked what other stress simulation techniques folks here used. Seems like a gun forum is a good place to ask both questions.

I think asking for an "amen brother" is asking for approval, but that's just my take on it. You can certainly learn a lot from the internet including the gun forums, but I find it odd that a "professional warrior" is here looking for information and advice. I would hope that my doctor learns from other doctors and from professional journals and continuing medical education seminars, vs. the "health information" internet forums, but maybe that is just me.

Nothing wrong with limbering up or stretching out before shooting, but doing PT and trying to simulate shooting under stress at a range with general shooting going on is pretty goofy.

Originally Posted by ISC

Quote:

I was hoping to get an "amen brother" and some ideas about other exercises and stuff to work into my training program. I've thought about carrying a peice of pipe or a weighted axe handle when I run to simulate carrying my rifle, but that's not that big of a concern for me.

TexasSeaRay · December 27, 2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethmark

I might remind those over stress dumbasses that this is america and if you want to swing from the rafters screaming jodies, that's your right.

Not in my house it's not.

Jeff

Vermont · December 27, 2007, 03:45 PM

A guy running and doing push ups disturbs people? You'd think the range was a ritzy golf course from the way some of the people in this thread are talking. If you need complete silence and no movement behind you then you are probably doing it wrong, or at least in the wrong place.

ISC, you get an "amen brother" from me. If people want to look at you strange, then let them. They are probably just curious, and not upset by it. If they want to ask you about it, tell them the truth. Or tell them you are training for a biathlon.

December 21, 2007, 01:28 PM	#26
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,209	when I shoot up at the Osceola range in lake city, I often run and then shoot, to practice breathing and muscle control. In a time of great social unrest, the confrontations might well be like that, where you have to run to cover, then fight. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

December 22, 2007, 12:30 PM	#34
Denny Hansen Staff Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,422	ISC- First and above all, a sincere thank you for your service to our country. If I saw someone exercising at the range I would assume they are doing it for the exact reason you described. Run it by the owner of the range and tell him why your reasoning. Most range owners I know would give you a green light as long as you are being safe. As for others present giving you strange looks? Ignore them. Denny __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

December 22, 2007, 12:54 PM	#35
capbuster Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 1999 Location: Bessemer,Alabama Posts: 302	A long way back I did some flexing at the range to limber up and proceeded to knock my spotting scope off the bench. No harm done, but I have not repeated the practice. __________________ cliff

December 22, 2007, 09:38 PM	#36
KS.45 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Posts: 105	I have an exercise pad that I go prone or kneel on. Any tactical movement will appear odd to some range shooters. The best idea is as previously posted. Find a landowner who has a good area for shooting. You can set up however you want and move the same. As long as you have a good backstop, go for it! DON'T LEAVE TRASH BEHIND!! __________________ Self defense is nature's first law. - John Dryden A Laser dot on the chest magically transcends all language barriers. KS.45

December 23, 2007, 12:35 AM	#38
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	I get some similar funny looks at the range. What I do is bring a pillow, blanket, and cot. I set them up about 20 yards from the firing line. I place my firearm under the pillow, strip down to my tighty-whiteys (unless it's summer when I normally sleep in the buff), and then lay down in my typical (fetal) sleeping position. I pretend that I hear a noise in my house, I jump up, grab my firearm, and run to the firing line. Sometimes that gets some funny looks...or kicked off the range if it's in the summer time. In all seriousness ISC, whatever keeps you alive. If I KNEW I was headed to some serious combat, then your method sure sounds like good training to me. Thanks for serving your country. Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

December 21, 2007, 07:20 PM	#27
Avenger11 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 311	If you did that at my range, I'd find cover and call 911! Random gyrations like that at a range in Texas could get you either arrested or labeled as one of those "Tip toe thru the tulips" type guys. Merry Christmas to all.

December 21, 2007, 08:27 PM	#28
sethmark Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2007 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 10	I might remind those over stress dumbasses that this is america and if you want to swing from the rafters screaming jodies, that's your right.

December 21, 2007, 08:36 PM	#29
Avenger11 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 311	OOOKAY! Can we not resort to name calling from the rafters!!

December 21, 2007, 08:47 PM	#30
Harrigan Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2007 Posts: 115	Sounds like good excersise to me,as long as you practice safe shooting 1st.

December 21, 2007, 10:22 PM	#31
NetJnkie Member Join Date: August 25, 2007 Posts: 60	Two suggestions: 1. Try competition shooting like USPSA/IPSC or IDPA. It's not uncommon to sprint through a stage and have to shot with your heart rate way up. Plus, that timer adds more stress than you'd think. 2. Try to find a private range. I'm a member of a range here with a private indoor pistol range. During the week at night (it's open 24 hours) I have the place to my self. I doubt most ranges would let me turn off all the lights and practice shooting by tac light.... but I can do it there.

December 21, 2007, 10:49 PM	#32
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	wow, this thread really took off. I can't say that I'm surprised at the derision that some of the responses displayed. I guess I'm taking this stuff seriously because I'm deploying to Afghanistan in 2009 for a combat mission and that's a good motivator. When my unit shoots at the range it is always from a foxhole and prone position. We just recently added the kneeling position to qualification. It was long overdue. We never shoot pistols because only officers and 240 gunners are issued the M9 and ammo isn't provided for training on non issued weapons. That means that the typical company only gets a few hundred rounds to shoot per year. I will be getting a pistol when I'm over there even if I have to get it in theater and leave it behind when I come home. It's up to me to be prepared to use it. I do the transition drills I was discussing on the firing line, but do the exercises behind the line. I am a 11B staff sergeant with over 10 years time in service I have a firearm collection that's bigger and better than most gunshops' inventory. I have competed in local and national competitions and always qualified expert with every weapon I've ever shot for record (SAW, M16, M9, SIG P226). I only say this to illustrate that I'm not doing this stuff on a lark or that I'm the sort of kid that plays with airsoft and buys throwing stars and big fake knifes and thinks he's a ninja. I am a warrior and train for war. I didn't mean to offend any hunters, I hunt too, just not very often or well. I was just trying to show that shooting a deer is a different skill set and mindset than killing a man, and it has implications that many here never seriously consider. If you haven't done any sort of stressed shooting you have no idea how much that complicates things. It can only be prepared for by training for it. I offered up my method of training for it and asked for other's input. Some of the responses were contemptable.

December 22, 2007, 11:51 AM	#33
ssilicon Senior Member Join Date: May 5, 2005 Posts: 459	I don't exercise at the shooting range. I shoot. I would also probably give someone exercising at the range a strange look, but I wouldn't have anything against such a person. I can see it now.... "Shootin' to the Oldies"

December 23, 2007, 02:23 PM	#39
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	The EIC matchs we shot a couple months ago had us running over 100 M for several of the different shoots. One had us climbing stairs to take positions in a window shooting down into a depression at targets at unknown ranges. I completely blew that one, but I think the biggest problem was shooting at targets at unknown ranges and elevations. The Patton match was a sprint (200 M I think) followed by a pistol shoot, but we had time to catch our breath after the sprint, so the bigger issue was general physical condition than stressed shooting. By that I mean being in good shape allows your heart rate to return to a normal number in a few minutes after the sprint, which is a different issue than training to shoot while your heart rate is high. The first you can train for at the gym, but shooting with a high heart rate needs to be trained for at a range. Most shooters without real training have a Bunker hill mentality and envision any action they might see as being where they will hunker down behind cover and take slow aimed shots at an adversary approaching over open ground. They don't have any idea of the elements of manuever and tactical movement that are required to be effective as part of a team or small unit. Some readers here agree with what I'm saying and see the sense in it. There is also a sizable percentage of the members here who have no idea about the requirements to be effective in a fluid battlefield. The percentage that doesn't have the physical abilities is even larger, and the percentage that doesn't have the training is even larger than that. There are some guys that have the knowledge but not the physical abilities. Mostly that's because they got injured, old, or fat. That's life. Do the best you can to get in the best shape you can. There are some guys that have the athletic abilities but not the knowledge. Find one of the guys described above and train. Then there are the guys that are content "knowing" that they'll never have to take a shot at another human being, or if they ever do it will be zombie hordes that can be picked off at long range until you run out of ammo, and anyone who prepares by tactival shooting is unrealistic. Last edited by ISC; December 24, 2007 at 01:02 AM.

December 23, 2007, 08:44 PM	#40
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	Since i am no longer active duty in the Corps i dont think i will have a need to shoot with a high pulse. I dont see a reason to practice it. and Charlie you are so very right about shooting with a high pulse and being out of breath! Its unreal the affect it has on ones shooting. __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

December 23, 2007, 09:33 PM	#41
allenomics Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 1,536	If you did this in front of others at the indoor range I frequent, you would probably be stopped and questioned. The range can be a dangerous place, and anything that is perceived to be strange, would make a lot of people nervous. I'm not saying anything negative about you. I don't even know you. I think many of us have heard stories about violence, sometimes shooter-self-inflicted at ranges where others are potential victims. If I we you I'd brief the range master about your intensions and ask permission first. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power!

December 25, 2007, 06:07 AM	#42
ISC Junior member Join Date: August 5, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,982	At the range I belong to, anyone can be the range master. We have a orange vest that hangs on the line and whoever is there first is the rangemaster. There is a range caretaker who is basically a pudgy self important security guard on some sort of power trip, and he tends to hassle anyone that happens to be around, regardless of what they're doing. Membership is $200/year, I think fo that I deserve to get some training value for my range time.

December 26, 2007, 05:56 PM	#43
Avenger11 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 311	I have an orange hunting vest. Can I be RANGEMASTER. PLEASE!!!!!!

December 27, 2007, 01:17 PM	#44
johnnymenudo Member Join Date: September 9, 2001 Posts: 30	You claim not to be a mall ninja or a kid playing airsoft, yet you come to a public firearm forum looking for approval from a bunch of strangers regarding your training regimen. If you are being deployed in 2008, work on your PT at a gym and work on your shooting at a range. You will get plenty of chance to integrate the two with a group of professionals in an appropriate environment. If you absolutely cannot stand to wait, try to do it when the place is empty. Why draw attention to yourself? If you insist on following your training regimen, then go ahead and do it but don't be surprised if you are treated like a jerk. You paid for the range membership, as long as you don't violate the rules, then do whatever makes you happiest.

December 27, 2007, 02:01 PM	#45
jhansman Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2007 Posts: 680	I stretch my back, legs, arms and hands before any range session. I learned long ago that an unstretched body performs more poorly than a stretched one in almost every activity where precision is required. Yes, I get some strange looks, but I just ignore the lookers.

December 27, 2007, 03:45 PM	#50
Vermont Member Join Date: December 11, 2007 Location: Vermont Posts: 84	A guy running and doing push ups disturbs people? You'd think the range was a ritzy golf course from the way some of the people in this thread are talking. If you need complete silence and no movement behind you then you are probably doing it wrong, or at least in the wrong place. ISC, you get an "amen brother" from me. If people want to look at you strange, then let them. They are probably just curious, and not upset by it. If they want to ask you about it, tell them the truth. Or tell them you are training for a biathlon.