Throwaway Guns

[Mark IV Series 80]

What is the "Junkiest" of all the "Junk Guns"?

By this, I mean which brand of gun is more likely not to fire when the trigger is pulled, and if it does fire, it will soon break.

I would like to tap my fellow TFL'ers knowledge on this question.

Thanks for voting!

-Mk.IV

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Mark IV,

I voted for Hi-Point firearms, cuz they are
big, butt ugly and unreliable. Purchase one
of these, and you just threw $79.00 up a wild
hog's rear end.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[PzGren]

You forgot to mention Roehm.

Years ago I bought many through a police auction. While they worked, most never shot twice at the same spot.

There were also two .25 Ravens among it and they were surprisingly accurate, never a hick-up.

[45King]

PzGren wrote:

There were also two .25 Ravens among it and they were surprisingly accurate, never a hick-up.

Y'know, I have heard that enough times from enough reliable sources to wonder whther or not the Raven truly belongs on the "junk gun" list.

When we look for a defensive weapon, the first quality we look for is reliability. If it goes "bang" when it's supposed to, and you can put the bullets where you wan't 'em, I just can't see it as a "junk" gun. It may be inexpensive, but who's against saving a buck if you get true value in doing so?

Well my vote just brought Hi-Point up to a tie with Lorcin.

[Rusty S]

A Smith and Wesson model 59 that took about a thousand bucks of smithing ( by successive owners ) before it would feed ball.

Two 9mm Colt Combat Commanders ( years apart ) that wouldn't feed half a mag of ball without stoppage.

A Thomas DAO 45 with a cam lock that quit working and never unlocked again, except manually racking the slide.

Throwaway is not the appropriate term. Some suggestions:

1) Bury packed in a box of dynamite and set the dynamite off.

2) Forge into a steel cow patty.

3) Etc., ( be creative ).

[The Observer]

Why did you not include China made Norinco 1911A1. It has a very rough finish, to sum up very inferior 1911A compared to the other 1911 manufacturer. That is just my own feel to this particular gun when one of my neighbor let me hold of his China made Norinco 1911A1 45. None could really surpass USA and German made 1911's.

[355sigfan]

The Norinco 1911 I owned was 100 % reliable and a better fun than the colts I have owned.
PAT

[presspics]

You forgot Glocks in the list. I vote for Glock....

[riverdog]

Couldn't be Bryco or Phoenix Arms, they made the California DOJ-Certified Handgun list My vote brought Lorcin to a tie with Hi-Point

[Johnny Guest]

Lorcin or Jennings-Bryco

I won't let one on the range when doing firearms proficiency checkout with my CHL students. Triee several times. Too many false starts. Some WOULD go a full mag of .380 without a stoppage, some wouldn't. I don't think I ever saw one that would run TWO consecutive magazines without a problem.

And, are you familiar with the Stallard? Huge, clunky, mostly cast something-or-other--Possibly zinc. A blowback 9 x 19, if I recall correctly, which makes up for lack of locking system by extreme weight of slide and heavy recoil spring. I've also seen 'em in .45 ACP. An abomination!

The Tec-9 is awfully bad, too.

The Observer:
I was also put off by the rough exterior of the Norinco 1911 when they first appeared. Turned out they had some decent metal and was a sound investment. Many good competetion pieces have been made up on this platform. Let's face it: Most will work one over entirely, so why not start with something rough but sound?

Years ago, the really bad handguns were the Rohm RG-10 and RG-12. Then, here was the RG-14 "Presidential Model," used to shoot President Reagan.

For a while, "Clerke 1st" was the trash gun. Usually seen in .32 S&W, sometimes in .22 rinfire, I think always Nickle plated. Crud, certainly, but a work of art compared to the RG series.

Best,
Johnny

[Kermit]

Where is the "All of the above" option?

[GLOCKT]

Bersa's

[355sigfan]

presspics

Ha ha. Glocks are simply the BEST handgun design currently going.
PAT

[presspics]

I beg to differ. To me they are a disposable gun. And hardly the best design available. But we all have different opinions..No offense intended I just consider them cheaply made disposable guns..

[denfoote]

As for quality, I chose the Hi-Point, because it is the only one on the list that I have had any experience with. However, it also depends on how you define throwaway gun. If you only intend to use it once, like in a gang punk hit, then any gun could be considered a throwaway.

[355sigfan]

presspics

No offence taken but if a pistol is still going strong after 140000 rounds it is not disposable. A 1911 with an aluminum frame is disposable after a few thousand rounds. As to the best design over 70% of leo's are not wrong as well as the militarys of the world that use them.
PAT

[Rusty S]

If you want to get semantic about it the term "throwaway gun" was responsible for delaying the acceptance of a back-up or hideaway gun.

Joseph Wambaugh's non-fiction book "The Onion Field" describes the turning point of an era in transformation. At that time, there was an unwritten contract in effect. Don't shoot a cop, cause if you do you will be shot down. The cops will not bring you in alive. Period, end of story.

Prior to that time, discretionary justice on the officer's part was the rule. Many if not most considered themselves Officers of the Peace, rather than LEO's. Thus, the simplest effective means of handling things was acceptable.

A drunk ineffectively going for a gun got clobbered with a nightstick, woke up with a headache that lasted a week, and his gun ( almost never registered ) disappeared rather than him being charged with carrying. He lived, learned painfully, and didn't do it again.

Some cops kept such a gun to "plant" in case they shot at a threatening movement and found out the guy was unarmed. Hence, the "throwaway" term of the 40's, 50's, and in some places, into the 60's and later.

The back-up or hideout gun became acceptable as the era of the throwaway ended. These were registered to the officer, carried on duty as well as off duty, and qualified with.

"The Onion Field" where the officers turned over their duty weapons and were then shot was the turning point. Remember we are talking what... 40 years, almost half a century ago? It was a different era -

[don't shoot it's me]

Sig 210

[P99]

Another vote for Hi-point. Ugly dang guns.

[Tropical Z]

I am APPALLED that Hi-Point is even on the list! Lorcin-YES,Hi-Point -NOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Johnny Guest]

Good explanation. Not correct in all particulars for THIS area, but certainly close enough.

In North Texas, you would HEAR OF what was called "a throwdown piece" occasionally. I'm glad to say, during the time I was breaking in as a new peace officer in the mid-sixties, the concept was rapidly fading away. There were a couple of "old timers" who bragged of being ready for anything, even a leeetle error in judgement which might leave them with an unarmed deceased person. But most of my contemporaries felt that such a practice was abhorrent, and discussion of such was tantamount to a criminal conspiracy, like tampering with evidence, or worse.

Other terms I've heard, from other areas, included "alibi gun" and "drop gun." One hears tales, certainly. I can declare, though, that I've never even been in the vicinity of an incident which had such an odor about it. The only two times I know when there was a questionable shooting, and the deceased turned out to NOT have a gun, there was never even any discussion of making up a story or planting a weapon.

The type firearms which are the subject of the current topic, I would usually term "trash guns," because of the association you raise, Rusty. No argument with the originator, though--the same phrase can have different shades of meaning to different individuals.

Best,
Johnny

[dntorbert]

although they are not currently produced I have to add fie derringers to the list. I have purchased 3 very cheaply and worn out 2 so far. They work...for a timeThen the pot metal frames stretch and the firing pin holes don't line up anymore.

[CWL]

What about Intratecs?

I know that some of them work, but none that I've ever seen!

[Rusty S]

Johnny G: thank you for a courteous and tactful reply. Obviously well thought out and worth paying attention to.