Gun show Dealer Sold me a Defective Gun - Now what?

[Little Wolf]

Bought a S&W 49 bodyguard from a gun dealer at the Springfield MA gunshow this weekend. For those who don't know, it is a snub nosed 2" revolver with a shrouded hammer, alluminum frame, and a nickle finish. Upon firing only about 30-40 rounds of standard fmj .38 special ammunition through the gun, it broke. The cylinder will not lock in correctly, and the barrel is twisted so the sights don't even line up now. The front sight is pointing out toward the side of the gun!! I will post pictures once I get a chance to take them so you can all see the damage.

My only question to all of you guys is, what do I do now? I have the business card of the owner, so I know where he is. However, what if he refuses to refund the defective gun he sold me? I expect a full refund, esp. since he was unwilling to haggle on the price. If he refuses to exchange it for a full refund, what should my next course of action be? I have NEVER had this negative an experience while purchasing a gun, and I am VERY upset!!

[joab]

If he want deal with you go to another dealer and ship it to Smith.
Your warrenty is with them not the dealer.
He should help you with the shipping and legalities since you bought it through him, but if not no real big deal.

[HighVelocity]

Are we talking about a used gun or a new gun? A used gun is hit or miss so to speak. Somebody breaks their gun, they patch it so it appears to function properly and then they sell it, trade it, or whavever. I have been burned by this myself.
A dealer takes buys it, takes it on trade blah blah blah, but most likely never fires it himself. He's in business to move product, not take everything that passes through his hands to the range.
A used gun is like a used car. Buyer Beware.

I'd call the guy, since he gave you his card I doubt he knew there was a problem. If he's a decent dealer he'll make it right, although I'd be very surprised if you got a refund. Probably get it fixed or give you credit towards a different gun.

Now if it was new, send it to S&W and be done with it.

[joab]

Are we talking about a used gun or a new gun?

Didn't even think of that.

If it is used and he won't make it right I would still send it to Smith. They are supposed to have excellant customer service

[City Slicker]

Little Wolf:

What they say has fact too it. But let's stop the bull, there's always something that can be done, you have a fight here. First let's contact the dealer. (Is it new or used?) Second try this website http://www.thesqueakywheel.com This is a good-one. No one need negative press & that's what we are going to give him, up the Kazoo. Third, do you have a better buisness Bureau? Wright them after you contact the Bonehead Dealer. If he's a dealer he's probably licensed and should know quality guns. We'll go after his license. Forth, I used this one, contact your states, "Attorney Generals office" Great people and always looking out for the average guy. Because it's a gun doesn't make you a second class citizen.
Fifth, take him to court. Yes win loose or draw he has to hire a lawyer, by law because he's a business and you don't. "DON'T BRING THE GUN TO COURT" illegal. Pictures take a lot a pics, send them to everyone.

Make your name a common word. I've done all these things at one time or another. Believe me, no one needs it. But they'll dump on you if you roll over. Why I'll sell you a bridge.

Sorry to be so long but these things bother me. No body respects a wimp....

[Double Naught Spy]

City Slicker has some really hit or miss information. Some is just plain wrong. City Slicker is of the impression that your problem is about respect and that if you don't take his aggressive approach, you will be seen as a wimp.

It is cute how he refers to these things in the plural, like he is right there with you to help you. He isn't.

Contacting the dealer is fine.

2nd, he wants y'all to post on a web site because nobody needs negative press. I don't know about you, but I have never heard of the web site. If I was the dealer and you posted there, I would never know about it. In other words, that isn't going to do anything.

3rd, he suggests y'all contact BBB after you contact him and as a dealer, he must have a license and that you are going to go after his license. The BBB has no power over licensing, so I don't know what he thinks you will get in the way of a license via the BBB.

4th, he wants to contact the AG. Why?

5th, he wants you to take him to court because it will cost him time and money. It is going to be small claims court and he does not have to have a lawyer for that, at least not in Texas. As the person filing the suit, you will be out money that you will get back, but only if you win. He says not to take the gun to court because it would be illegal. That is just plain wrong. You can check with the court's clerk. If it is critical to your case, the gun can be there. You just may need to make special provisions before hand so that it can be brought into court.

City Slicker says nobody respects a wimp. When it comes to information, nobody respects a source with so many errors. If your gun is new, then it has a warranty and it is with S&W, not the dealer. If the gun was purchased used and with no written or promised warranty, then it is going to be an as-is purchase. You are stuck with it.

You mentioned that the dealer sold you a defective gun. That is only 1/3 right. The second 1/3 is that if it is a new gun, it came from the manufacturer that way and the dealer would not know if it was defective or not. The last 1/3 is that you purchased the defective gun and like the dealer, at the time of the transaction, you had no way of knowing if it was defective or not. If new, then this was NOT something the dealer did to you any more than you doing it to yourself. Contrary to City Slicker that the dealer would know quality guns, he is partially correct. The dealer would know quality guns, but not necessary be able to recognize a defect that would not rear its head until after shooting live fire. There could have been a bubble in the metal of one of the internal parts that nobody ever saw, or maybe a microscopic crack that did not become a problem until enduring full stress loads. So, how would you or the dealer know?

Contrary to your closing statement, Little Wolf, you still have not had a negative experience buying a gun. Nothing you have said indicates that the transaction was anything negative. Your negative experience was in shooting a gun that apparently did not function correctly. It is disappointing, but until you speak with the dealer and/or S&W, chill. Having a problematic gun you purchased isn't much different than purchasing any other item from a swap meet that ended up being problematic. Nobody wants it to happen, but sometimes it does. The fact that it was of a gun should not really have any bearing on whether or not you are upset.

[Brian Williams]

Welcome to TFL Lone Wolf and Cityslicker. We follow the Highroad around here and hope most folks will honor good business practices. If this dealer will not help you maybe S&W will.

Couple of ?????
Was it new or Used?
Is the dealer local to you??

Give the dealer a call and see what he says, then start whining and complaining if he does not fix it..

[Majic]

First you have to get the model number right. The M49 Bodyguard has a steel frame. The M38 is the lightweight aluminum frame Bodyguard. Second you have to know how old it is before looking for warranty work (they have been made since 1959). Since the barrel has turned I would imagine it was made after 1982 or the barrel would be pinned in. Look on the side of the frame to see if there is a pin hole where the barrel screws in. If the cylinder won't lock then check to see if the bolt is popping up. Probably the bolt spring broke.
You bought a used gun as they haven't been made in almost 10 years. Dealers sell guns and some don't know if there is a problem or not. Since you bought it at a gunshow do you know where the dealer is located? If he is not local it maybe cheaper to negotiate with him/her to have it repaired locally. Shipping or driving it back to the dealer can get rather expensive. Or you can negotiate a partial refund to cover the repairs. It doesn't sound like much is wrong with the revolver and the repair bill shouldn't be too expensive.

[918sgt]

Apparently you have yet to check with the dealer and are playing the "what if" game. Save yourself a lot of grief and check with the dealer before you start to fret about MAY come to be.

[Eghad]

Always give the dealer a shot at solving the problem in a fair manner. I usually make two or thre attempts then pursue other remedies in an escalating manner.....

[BillCA]

DO contact the dealer and explain the situation calmly and clearly. Then ask him if he can help you. His response may be to send it to S&W for repairs. OR he might know a good gunsmith in your area.

DO Remember, the first person who "cops an attitude" loses.

DO conduct this as a business matter and look for a way to resolve this to your satisfaction. Avoid being overly emotional about it. LISTEN to what the dealer says and evaluate it in terms of being reasonble to BOTH of you.

DON'T resort to threats of legal action or threats to trash the name of his business (no matter how tempting it becomes).

If your dealer can't/won't help you, then contact S&W. There are people there who truely try to make you happy with their products. It's likely that they can provide you the name of a qualified local gunsmith or "service facility". If nothing else, they'll ask you to ship it to them.

Even if it's a used gun, S&W is pretty good about fixing defects that "shouldn't happen". I had a 2nd-hand Model 15 on which "hammer nose bushing" started to work loose. S&W repaired the gun for nothing and all I did was pick up the shipping charges.

[City Slicker]

What makes you think I wouldn't help him. Because you’re not. No one is suggesting he uses this forum for a war. Yes when your money is stolen it is a personal issue. He has my e-mail address and you don't know of any private messages I sent.

You never heard of the Website and probably never heard of a lot of things. Try going their first before you speak or criticize someone’s work. They will try and get your money back.

As for as the BBB not having power over the licensed dealer that is correct, but the department of consumer affairs does have it. In Arizona this is done through the BBB who will get you the proper consul.

Why I want to contact the "AG" is because if this guy is selling dangerous weapons. Filing a folder is a great start. How many people did he fraud or who should get hurt next. “The barrel bent. ”Tell me Double Naught do you own a gun store or do you deal. You’re awfully defensive about going after this dealer.

I was a Court Clerk, Criminal Court NYC, in New York they don't charge you, but maybe Double Naught is right, different states do it in a different manner. You walk into that court w/ a handgun and your going to have more people on top of you then you could count. Again Double Naught has a point check with the proper authorities on the manner for doing this. You CAN'T BRING A GUN INTO A FEDERAL OR STATE BUILDING and there's a 100 more areas your can't bring it.

Always remember this fact that the gun could blow you face off. It’s no different then buying a used car that doesn't work properly. I think your priorities have to be checked.

Why don't you check your facts before hurting mine. I was a Court Clerk and a Police Officer for over 20 years. You loose credibility when you make up facts. Maybe Double Naught Spies is right, I see fraud when there isn’t. I’ve only given you ideas of just what was available to you. One item at a time.

Double Naught Spy I’m sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent but don’t come down on me so hard when you don’t have full knowledge of my facts. Maybe I didn’t explain them properly.

[Little Wolf]

It was a used gun, I am not sure what model it was because he did not know what model it was. He had the gun's serial number listed under the "model" section of the price tag. The serial number is AFB319x.

It is a S&W 2" bodyguard model (shrouded hammer) .38 special with a nickel finish.

Now, the dealer told me that it was an aluminum gun. That is why I said it was, he could be lying or he could be mistaken, I don't know. I asked him about the firearm's condition, and the condition of the bore. He said he wouldn't accept a firearm if it was in poor condition and everything was sound.

I thank all of you for the advice, don't worry, I plan on seeing him tomorrow. He isn't "Local" but he is an hour and a quarter drive away so I can still pop in. Hopefully we will be able to work this out, how he reacts tomorrow will dictate my next move.

No pictures yet as my camera is out of batteries, and there are none around at the moment. I'll be sure to give an update tomorrow on what transpired.

[BillCA]

Wolf,

Open the cylinder of your gun and look on the frame below the barrel, where the cylinder yoke closes. You should either see the model number or your serial number. A 2" Bodyguard, Airweight is a Model 38 if it was made after 1957 and should have something like "Mod 38" or "38-1" or similar. If all you see is your serial number (or a 4-6 digit number) it was likely made before 1957 and is simply known as a "Bodyguard".

[XavierBreath]

Bought a S&W 49 bodyguard from a gun dealer at the Springfield MA gunshow this weekend. For those who don't know, it is a snub nosed 2" revolver with a shrouded hammer, alluminum frame, and a nickle finish.

The Model 49 is a blued steel framed Bodyguard.
The Model 38 is an aluminum framed Bodyguard.
The Model 649 is a stainless steel framed Bodyguard.
I could be wrong, but I don't think S&W put out a nickel Bodyguard.

If a barrel becomes loose in the frame, it can turn from the torque from the bullet. If your pistol is indeed a Model 38 (check inside the yoke for the model number) then I think it is likely that it was used with +P ammo, not by you, but at some point in it's life. If so, then the frame could also be stretched, causing the lock-up problems as well as the loose barrel. If you can get your hands on a Kuhnhausen book, check the dimensions.

If it is a M38, it's my understanding S&W cannot repair or replace the frame. They can replace the frame with a steel Model 49 frame. These revolvers generally go for about $200-250. Hopefully you did not pay more. The nickel finish placed it more in the $150 range. I hope the dealer will do right by you. Speaking with him is your first line of recourse. Next, I would contact the gunshow's promoter. Then, finally, S&W. S&W may be able to help you, but it might cost you on shipping and such.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but that is why these forums are so important. Here's a link on how to check out a revolver prior to purchase.

Jim March's Revolver Checkout

[XavierBreath]

The cylinder will not lock in correctly, and the barrel is twisted so the sights don't even line up now.

If what you mean is the ejector lug on the barrel is turned, therefore the ejector rod has no support, then you may be in luck. Does the lockwork of the gun still function? That is, does the cylinder still lock up? Everything else works like advertised?

If so, then you are just dealing with a turned barrel, right? I wonder if it could just be turned back into place and pinned? If you have a good revolver 'smith in your town, this might not be such a big problem.

[Boss Spearman]

In Indiana I can ship the gun directly to the manufacturer, and they will ship it directly back to me. I don't have to go through a dealer to ship one I own to the manufacturer.

[Edward429451]

My vote is to skip the frustration and ship it to Smith. Hopefully they wont charge you but if so bite the bullet and at least you'll have your good gun. You'll know better next time (maybe) after having read Jim March's check out guide.

Thats what I'd do.

[Sir William]

Common sense approach. Wait until you, the revolver and the dealer are all three together Monday. Be polite. Based on the results of the face to face meeting then, start the process of talking with the show organizer/sponsor first. I dare say that you and the dealer are remarkably unaware of which S&W revolver you purchased. I would have walked away and not looked back. Caveat Emptor.

[caz223]

If the address on the card he gave you is local, and you're not against visiting him, and seeing what he will do for you then go ahead.
If you're not willing to make the drive, then don't even bother calling him.
Call smith and wesson.
They made the product that you have a problem with.

[Double Naught Spy]

City Slicker, what makes me think you won't help him? While you may think that you are helping him because of your good intentions of protecting him from the supposed evil gun dealer, so much of what you said is threatening, inflammatory, and generally unbalanced that you will be doing more harm than good.

From your two posts, it is obvious that you have some serious issues. In your initial post, you basically are describing a slander campaign. The person you are claiming to help may end up at the end of a successful civil suit for such unsubtantiated claims.

You said that his money was stolen and that makes it a personal issue. I doubt Little Wolf needs help from a guy who does not understand the difference between buying a product that has broken and an act of theft. You said Little Wolf's money was stolen. That means you have already decided that the dealer has intentionally been dishonest. Little Wolf hasn't even contacted the dealer yet and you have the dealer as the bad guy. At this point, for all you know, the dealer may be 100% helpful, but you have him as a criminal.

No, I don't know what messages you have sent him privately, but if your understanding of the law, dealing in matters of broken used product, and attitude are any indication of your abilities to help Little Wolf, he will do better without your help.

By the way, I really appreciated it when you changed your tune on several points that I pointed out as incorrect in your original post pertaining to gov't agencies and the law. For a person with the claimed legal experience you have, these mistakes are significant.

Yes, you are seeing fraud where there may not be any fraud. In fact, you don't even know the conditions of the sale. As for the gun potentially blowing off Little Wolf's face, now you are just being crazy. As a person so familiar with the law, then you should know that "could haves" mean zilch. Since it didn't happen, that aspect isn't relevant.

FYI, I am not defending the gun dealer. I am simply stating that the well-intentioned help and legal advice you offered was and is wrong on several levels, that you didn't know the terms of the deal and could not give reasonable advice even though you have already decided the dealer is a crook and stated as much be saying that Little Wolf's money was stolen from him.

How can somebody with your vast legal experience not know the difference between theft and a problem product about which the buyer has yet to contact the seller?

[Handy]

A used gun that worked in the past is likely not "defective". It is simply "broken", because an old part finally failed.

The dealer couldn't have known that the part was going to fail. You didn't know it while firing the first 60 rounds, either.

Some gun dealers will take a gun like that back just to be nice, but they don't have to. The gun was sold "as is". Ask, but don't be shocked if they tell you to talk to S&W.

On the plus side, S&W will probably fall all over themselves to fix your gun. Their warranty service is terrific.



This is part of the danger of buying used. You saved some bucks, but THIS TIME had a problem. Have YOUR gun fixed and move on.

(I hope I'm not on some BBB list because of one of my old used guns I've sold off. )

[dev_null]

The words "as is" ring a bell?

[Jack Bauer]

I could be wrong, but I don't think S&W put out a nickel Bodyguard.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but yes, Smith (at least once, anyway ) made a nickel bodyguard in the regular steel frame, 'cuz I had one. Very nice gun.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread. Sorry for the interruption.

[Zekewolf]

No sense in making what could be a simple problem with a simple solution more complex than necessary. Why not give him a call and tell him what happened. If he's willing to take the gun back, then problem solved. Why waste a trip when a quick phone call might work?

As others have said, if you don't get any satisfaction from the dealer, go to Smith & Wesson. All the talk about lawyers, etc., is juvenile.