Offensive handguns?

[Blue Duck357]

I know the general response "No such thing, bring a rifle shotgun howitzer etc." But with the "Global War on Terrorism" I'd think there are more than a few good guys wondering about in various corners of the world where you can't get by carrying M-4 all day.

I think the Massod used to use .22's but I've also heard of a few blunders where they did not pentrate the skull. But basically I'm asking what you consider the difference between a defensive and offensive handgun would be, and opinons on what might be best.

[Zundfolge]

I think a gold plated Desert Eagle is pretty offensive




(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

[Jim March]

I think Rohms, and the Davis/Jennings/Bryco types are highly offensive .

OK, 'nuff fun.

The reality, to me, is that if I'm going to pick a fight, I'd practice a whole lot with something VERY accurate and fight at long range. A Savage bolt-action repeater handgun in .308 would be a good start .

[4thHorseman]

Jim, I read your first comment, I laughed my butt off. Jim, you're a "Cold Man" LOL

[Jim March]

Years ago, somebody asked for general opinions on Davis .380s on rec.guns. I replied that the proper defensive use of these is to take a whole bunch of 'em, load 'em in a cannon and use 'em as lumpy grapeshot.

[Blue Duck357]

I think a gold plated Desert Eagle is pretty offensive

We'll sure if you don't have the Pearl grips on it, it's gonna look tacky.

[blades67]

I find HiPoints to be pretty offensive.

[Benjamin]

But basically I'm asking what you consider the difference between a defensive and offensive handgun would be

Attitude of the operator. Several of my friends carry subcompact glocks - these are accurate, reliable, and are in respectable calibers. There is no reason that I can conceive that these would not work well for offensive purposes.


Edited because I can't spell on 2 hours of rest.

[Apeach]

Wasn't the MK23 supposed to be an offensive handgun? More accurate at longer distances, and badass enough to kill anything. Also, it's got the silencer and LAM attachments.

[FPrice]

None of my firearms, pistols, rifles, or shotguns, are offensive. I have trained them well, they are all polite and well-mannered. Why, the other day one of my Glocks volunteered to help an old lady cross the street!

[7th Fleet]

I find post sell out Smith & Wessons to be highly offensive and avoid them at all costs. I find nice used pre sellout Smith & Wessons to be excellent revolvers. The boycott lives...

7th

[Blue Duck357]

Actually I was looking more for apeach's type follow-up but I've learned threads go where they go and no reason to fight it

Didn't Chuck Taylor recently test a Glock that had been buried in Horse Dung for a week or so?... I guess that would be an offensive handgun. At least until cleaned

[Oleg Volk]

I'd think an offensive handgun is something more useful for terminating an opponent than for stopping an attack. Pretty much all hunting pistols would be primarily offensive, and most mouseguns like PSM 5.45 or 22s. However, before some lurker here thinks that it is time to ban them, "offensive" here means "less versatile". Any other handgun can also be used offensively, but also defensively (which is the most common use).

Personally, I'd classify a handgun in posession of an un-Constitutional government agent such as the cat-stompers as offensive, along with everything else about them. But that gets into an emotional and not technical description.

[FPrice]

You want serious? You got it.

One of the problems may be defining "offensive" in terms of this discussion. If you mean a handgun as your primary firearm then your go open two discussions. The one is from those who say that your primary weapon should be more powerful than a handgun and instead be a long gun (rifle/shotgun).

The other becomes which handgun/cartridge can you depend upon to terminate an opponent in the quickest possible time. At that point most people will lean towards the biggest, most powerful cartridge you can carry.

When you throw in the scenario of people being in places where they cannot carry a rifle, you go back to defensive handguns. If you can't carry an obvious weapon (a rifle) you are most likely not in an offensive mode. Then you are back to choosing a defensive firearm.

If I were in a situation where I could carry a handgun openly, and could not carry a rifle, I would probably opt for a Colt M1911 or some such version. Good power, fairly easy to carry, quick to shoot and reload.

Others may choose different firearms. But, what are the parameters? If I were going after Grizzlies, I might go for a .454 Casull. But there is not really sufficient information to pin your choice down any farther.

[yorec]

Adding to FPrice's deffinition, a gun designed to operate without alerting the target's friends/guardians would also be offensive. So any gun with a working silencer might be offensive - but may very well be used defensively in a variety of situations.


And in keeping with the timbre of this thread, revolvers with silencers are most assuredly offensive!

[Marko Kloos]

If I recall correctly, an Israeli took out a terrorist who was armed with an AK and behind cover...the Israeli was armed with a .25ACP Beretta Jetfire. He had to sprint across open tarmac to get to the terrorist, and killed him deader 'n Elvis. Would that make the Jetfire an offensive handgun?

"Offensive" is in the use, not the tool...you can have an "offensive" letter opener if you employ it in a decisive and aggressive fashion.

[faraway]

Quite a thread. Ironic that the handguns that are used in many incidents for offensive needs,(attack) in our society, tend to be the odious junk guns. Lorcins, Ravens, Davis, etc. The 'good guns' tend to be the weapons used defensively by civilians (whether LE,or otherwise and whether auto or rev.) So from a pragmatic and statistical sense- the nee plus ultra of offensive handguns would be a faux gold plated, zinc (or another metal whose mix is best kept secret), nasty pocket auto. Got to Junk the Taurus etc and get some junk, so's I can get a serious offensive handgun.

[WESHOOT2]

You might think "STI hi-cap" kinda set up like a race gun..............entry/house-clearing.....

[Cal4D4]

How's this:

Defense with handgun means you were caught out without a better weapon/option. Bring on anything reliable, powerful enough to take out possibly lightly armored soft targets and able to quickly engage multiple targets. Accurate and not excessively recoiling. Since you are not able to protect your hearing I would avoid anything operating over low +P pressure levels. No .454's, no big muzzle flash.

Offensive action with a handgun means you are picking the fight. The objective may be in a fortified position or have backup immediately available. Two different senarios. 1. Something discreet and quiet - probably short ranged and low powered. Your life may be considered forfeit to achieve valuable objective. 2. Some thing very powerful, accurate and long range to penetrate cover considered safe and achieve objective.

Solution? 10mm Glock with threaded barrel available - takes only moments to switch. Scope mount available, suppressor available. Ammo can range from subsonic to hypersonic, hollowpoints to bronze penetrators. The rest is up to the skill of the operator.

I don't think a .45acp based system can do the longer range penetration.

[Chris Pinkleton]

I think the Mk23 can handle ".45 Super" level loads -- which brings it into the hot 10 mm category. I think it's subsonic loads could be more powerful than the 10mm due to heavier bullet weight.

That being said, the Glock 20 would probably be my choice as well.

[Cal4D4]

Good call on .45 Super. Anything the 10mm is +50 grains of projectile weight and a greater choice of platforms. Blow both into the weeds with a .460 Ruhland I guess. How good is a .45 cal bronze penetrator vs. a 10mm bronze penetrator either at 1200 fps at a practical limit of say 125 yards max?

[MeekAndMild]

Purely IMHO,and it has been over 20 years since I seriously studied the subject, in a military sense infantry handguns are all primarily offensive in use, or to keep order among the troops and as a signal device. OTOH Air Force handguns are all defensive in use unless used as a signal device.

So one has to look at the mission before assigning offenseive versus defensive versus signal versus disciplinary purpose.

[krept]

I agree with a suppressed .45. Lethal and quiet at short ranges.

Sig 220
G21
HK USP fullsized/tactical (SOCOM tad too big)
1911

Ideally, USP Tac with a CCFA suppressor and full capacity magazines would be my choice.

Purely hypothetical, but interesting question.

[kalibear45]

I find it quite offensive that gangstas who do not know how to properly hold a gun actually hit their targets during one of their "drive-bys"...

[Ceol Mhor]

I'd say that most any full-size handgun is primarily an offesive weapon, although they can be used defensively. Guns like the 1911, Hi-Power, Glock, Luger, Broomhandle Mauser, and Beretta 92 (to name a few) are most at home on a battlefield, not a CCW holster.