Ready to hunt exotics?

[LAK]

Or perhaps be discussing "What handgun to carry in lion country".

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...8/ixworld.html
'Rewilding' could mean lions at large in US
By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
(Filed: 18/08/2005)

Cheetahs, lions and even elephants could roam parts of North America in an extraordinary "rewilding" plan outlined today by ecologists and conservationists.

The introduction of creatures, mostly from Africa, that are counterparts of large extinct beasts is suggested as a way of restoring ecosystems to something like the state they were in before man hunted large mammals and "megafauna" to extinction.

Josh Donlan, the lead author of the study published in Nature, said that beavers had been reintroduced to Scandinavia to help restore the local ecosystem.

The ecologists admit that they will be accused of wanting to "play God" but point out that cheetahs, camels and kangaroos already live on Texan ranches.

During the Pleistocene era - between 1.8 million to about 10,000 years ago - ecosystems were much more diverse.

The study says that introducing living counterparts to the extinct Pleistocene-period animals to create "Pleistocene Park" could fill the voids for American plants and animals that co-evolved with large but now extinct mammals.

In America, the team points out that four million years of hunting by the now extinct American cheetah (Acinonyx trumani) was probably why the pronghorn (Antilocapra americana) - an antelope-like animal found throughout the south-west - developed the ability to run at up to 60mph.

Introducing free-ranging African cheetahs back to the south-west could restore the relationship with pronghorns and provide endangered cheetahs with a new habitat.

A pilot study will test a mild version of the rewilding plan by considering the release of the endangered Bolson tortoise on a private ranch in New Mexico. The tortoise, which can weigh up to 100lb and once thrived in Arizona and Mexico, now survives only in a small area of northern Mexico.

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2005

[siotwo]

"OH yes, we'd really like to release 60mph cheetah's, but our grant only allows 1mph giant tortiose....plus they are cheaper and easier to track"



I cant wait until the tortiose reproduces and goes "free range" and then eats some rare plant that blooms once every 29 1/2 years of something crazy.

[Twycross]

Another stupid idea. When will they ever grasp the concept that playing God with the ecosystem always ends up bad?

A few more critters to worry about. I wonder if we will start to hear about 'lion attacks' as well as 'bear attacks'.

[Lance5050]

Personally I hope they keep working on the clonig thing. I believe they have frozen dna from Mastadons, Wooly Mammoths, and Sabre-toothed Tigers. Now THAT would be cool.

Too bad the dinosaur fossils are too old to be of use.

[butch50]

Driving across North Texas and seeing wild elephants, lions, giraffes, tigers, would be too cool.

[CarbineCaleb]

It's interesting, but practically speaking, I think it's never gonna happen - many Americans are panicked and/or outraged by a fairly small number of wolves and grizzlies in the lower 48 (Canadians, meanwhile are fairly calm about having about 100x that number in their country ). Now we're talking about African lions? *lol* I don't think so.

[butch50]

I don't think so either, but it would still be cool. Think of the stories you could tell your grandkids about the time before the elephants.....

[Hamhawk96R]

It would be cool until those same people prevented you from hunting/defending yourself against those animals for fear of "damaging the eco-system." Besides, I don't like the idea of getting ambushed by a large cat while I'm camping or something. Being at the top of the food chain is just fine and dandy with me. I don't want to have to compete for the spot.

[butch50]

Imagine camping out and hearing elephants crashing through nearby brush in the dark - wouldn't that be an eye opening experience?

[CarbineCaleb]

I will be happy if we can bring back (more) the grizzly, wolf and mountain lion to the lower 48. From what I have read, even elk were found all over and in large numbers (many millions) prior to the arrival of Europeans. The US must have looked like the Savannah, teeming with both predators and prey, before we wiped them all off the map.

Farming and ranching and wildlife don't mix real well though. It destroys habitat, and the farmers and ranchers will often shoot, poison and trap anything alive other than their livestock. Maybe we should get used to thinking of sheep, cattle and pigs as the new "wildlife".

[T. O'Heir]

"...hearing elephants crashing through nearby brush in the dark..." An elephant can move absolutely silently when it wants to. Knew a CF Major who had been in a tent some place in Africa. Woke up in the middle of the night to off load some beer. Stepped out of the tent and there was a bull snoozing under the same tree. And African elephants hunt people who annoy them.
This whole thing is idiotic. There isn't any suitable habitat for lions or elephants anywhere in North America.

[22-rimfire]

I also agree the concept is idiotic. Why not introduce cobras in South Florida and the Rio Grande Valley and Anacondas in the Mississippi Delta? That would turn a few heads.

[butch50]

Gee Whiz, don't you guys have any imagination?

[22-rimfire]

The game and fish people have been re-introducing "exotic" North American game that has been previously exterminated in many areas. The best examples are probably the Timber wolves and the Elk. American Bison have been introduced in the park, Indian reservations, and public land areas or raised on farms and ranches. The mountain lion (couger, black panther, etc.) have been sighted in many states these days with many unconfirmed sightings in other states (like UFO's, guess you need a picture or witness to confirm) that have not previously reported them as present in their states. Bobcat populations are increasing. Black Bear populatons are exploding and are becoming a nuisance in many eastern states. Coyotes are truly a nuisance species and are found mostly all over the US these days. As mentioned, Elk populations are increasing nationwide. With controls, the these species are really pretty interesting especially as game animals. But landowners have problems with damage and killing of live stock (in the case of wolves or large bears).

Texas is famous for its exotic game on many of the ranches and are selectively hunted. Texas will be the first place where the true exotics will become "wild animals". Cool, but I don't really want to find an elephant in my backyard checking out my shrubs or garden.

The snake thing I mentioned as a joke..... I think about Cottonmouths and how much people don't like them (for good reason, I might add) and would hence think that exotic poisonous repiles would be a true no no.

[CarbineCaleb]

Well, I love nature... and for that reason I will say that I am skeptical about the introduction of exotics into the US. The very same thing has been responsible for many problems, due to animals that thrive a little too well, and outcompete native species. I would like to see how the authors would ensure this wouldn't happen.

With regard to the animals that were so numerous and widespread when the Europeans arrived though, I think it'd be great if they could be brought back. I realize that it can't be like it was then (what with all the sprawling suburbs, farms and ranches), but a little closer anyway would be a beautiful thing.

[CarbineCaleb]

Well, I love nature... and for that reason I will say that I am skeptical about the introduction of exotics into the US. The very same thing has been responsible for many problems, due to animals that thrive a little too well, and outcompete native species. I would like to see how the authors would ensure this wouldn't happen.

With regard to the animals that were so numerous and widespread when the Europeans arrived though, I think it'd be great if they could be brought back. I realize that it can't be like it was then (what with all the sprawling suburbs, farms and ranches), but a little closer anyway would be a beautiful thing.

[pt111gr]

That link isn't credible at all. I use to work in this industry and there has never been any serious talk of such a thing, that I'm aware of. The only species that has been relocated in attempt to re-populate are tigers in africa(which would later be used to re-populate asia), but that is only in an enclosed area and it is still in it's infancy.

[CarbineCaleb]

Well, I don't think there is any significant funding being set aside or government approval. At this point, it's just a proposal that was published in the Journal Nature. It's called "Re-wilding North America" and is on page 913 of the current issue. I don't have the subscription, but I have read about this elsewhere, and it's out there alright. It's making a lot of waves because it's a radical proposal. But the attention doesn't mean the idea has a lot of support.

It will no doubt be controversial in the scientific community, as even aside from public fears, one needs also to think about the impact on the current ecosystem and the current native species. I don't think this is going anywhere fast.

[DucksOnThePond]

at first I thought it would be a great idea as I read the earlier posts, but then I got to thinking. in the southern US they have introduced neutrarats, armadillos and kudzu (plant) which are all nuisances that are hard to control. I have also heard about killer bees introduced from Africa that have spread out in the southwest and apparently can be quite dangerous.

[CarbineCaleb]

DucksOnThePond: Yep, the axis deer that was introduced in Hawaii for amusement hunting that is overgrazing rare plants (no natural predators for it there), and the Aussies had/have a big problem with rabbits overgrazing that were introduced, and because they had killed off all the dingos and Tasmanian devils, there was nothing to keep the new bunnies in check. Also a lot of problems with plants (some weed from an aquarium is choking the Mediterranean) and aquatic animals (like zebra mussels, lampreys) - often fisherman buy bait species which are nonnative, and then at end of day, the boneheads throw the unused ones alive into the lake! This is a big problem, and with improvements in transportation and the growth of the global economy (the organisms have to physically relocate somehow with people's help), it just keeps getting bigger.

[butch50]

Sure, fire ants and killer bees and armadillos came into the US from Mexico and are problematic.

But Elephants! Wouldn't you love to see wild elephants roaming around the great plains? Giraffes and wild elephants roaming around would be something to see!

[Mannlicher]

"hunting" exotics, on a fenced ranch, guided to the kill, is NOT hunting. Collecting maybe, but not hunting.

[Jack O'Conner]

Zoos have saved a few species from extinction, but after one generation in captivity they lose all their wildness. In contrast, the high fence game ranches preserve both the animal and its wildness.

FACTS: 15,000 axis deer roam Texas. Almost as many found in their native habitat of Ceylon and Nepal. Addax and symitar horned oryx are nearly extinct in their native lands of North Africa. Yet thriving at Texas game ranches. Pere David deer and Eld's deer are extinct in their native lands, yet thriving on American game ranches.

No animal rights activists are involved with saving these animals. No sir. These animals are thriving because ranchers imported them for paying sportsman to hunt. Profit is elusive for the first several years for these ranchers but eventually their herds become large enough for hunting.

Thank you to all exotic ranchers!
Jack

[beenthere]

I was googling "Axis Deer" yesterday and ran into a site that said there are over 37,000 in "Texas" with some running free on state lands. I think they are a warmer weather species so I don't expect we'll ever see them in the central and northern states but they could eventually spread to the southern tier. Of course even if there are a thousand or so on open range it will tale a "long" time for them to appear in hunting quantities.

I wonder if the Antelopes, Sable, Kudu, Ibex, Thompsons etc will find their way into the open range too.

[Capt. Charlie]

The snake thing I mentioned as a joke..... I think about Cottonmouths and how much people don't like them (for good reason, I might add) and would hence think that exotic poisonous repiles would be a true no no.

Uh, not as crazy as you might think. Truth is, Florida is loaded with exotic snake collectors, and snakes are escape artists. There really are cobras (and others) slithering around S. Florida, and there's real concern that there's enough of them to establish breeding populations. Conditions are perfect for it.