Taurus Judge ~ Home Defender

[Theophilus]

I used the search function and was surprised that I couldn't find any discussion of the newest "Judge", the "home defender".  I know the Judge line overall has been polarizing, so maybe everyone is tired of the topic haha. Anyway, this is the one that comes with a 13" barrel and rails for red dot/lights. 

I've considered several times following the traditional advice, and getting a shotgun for home defense. The thing is, my home is not large (1800 sq feet, and the longest shot anywhere inside would be 20 feet). A long gun could be unwieldy in this setting, and I haven't practiced enough to feel like racking it would be second nature in a high-adrenalin situation (ranges that allow shotguns are a long way from home).

Enter the "Home Defender". Not nearly the same firepower as a 12 or 20 gauge long gun, but out of a 13" barrel the 410 at least would pack more punch than the other Judge platforms do. Review videos I've watched show reasonably tight groups with defensive loads at 20 feet as well.  Talk me out of (or into) this idea... does the HD version of the Judge start to provide a reasonable compromise between handgun and long gun for defending the interior of an average-sized home?

[bedbugbilly]

IMHO - the choice of what to use fro a HD weapon is entirely up to the individual and their individual situations.

I would like to point out two things though . . .
First, NOBODY knows how they will react when faced sith a SD situation . . . doesn't matter if you are a seasoned LE officer, a combat veteran or "Joe Homeowner" . . . every situation is different . . . . that's where training comes in and even with that, there are no guarantees as to how a person will react.

Second . . . . you mention that you have not practiced enough to know if "racking" (I'm assuming you are tying about a pump shotgun) would be "second nature" in a
SD situation. That's why you "practice". I grew up hunting with double barrel and pump shotguns . . . didn't matter which I had . . . pulling the back trigger on a double or racking a pump shotgun to chamber another round for a second shot just came naturally and without much thought . . . because I was "familiar" with my firearm and "kept" myself familiar with them.

Personally, I've never shot a Judge and they don't really hold much interest for me. I know several who went that route, and to be honest, they were the type of guys who got them for the "cool" factor and who thought that if they could throw out a load of buckshot in a SD situation, then they had all their bases covered because they aren't the type to actually spend time to practice to become good shooters with acceptable accuracy. Another guy I know, went the route of a 12 ga. pump shotgun - another one who won't take the time to practice with and "learn" the firearm, he ended up blowing a hole in the ceiling of their bedroom. My point? Whatever you decide on - practice shooting it at a range or a suitable location.

Personally, my EDC is my primary HD weapon, along with other handguns. I have given thought to something like a 20 gauge pump with a short barrel (legal length of course) as well as one of the Ruger PC9 carbines - primarily because I could utilize Glock mags in it that I can also use in my EDC.

But this is the revolver section - and while I also own a number of revolvers, and I'm fine with a revolver for a HD weapon - I don't think anyone, like myself, can give you an answer in terms of the revolver in question, if they have no experience with one. If you think it is something that might fit your needs - I'd suggest seeing if you can rent one at a range and try it - put a couple boxes of shells through it and see how it shoots as well as how you, yourself, can handle it. Your individual situation is also going to dictate on what is best for you - do you have children in the house? How are you going to secure it, yet have quick access to it if needed? If you have a significant other . . . are both of you going to train with it? If so . . . is it something that they can handle if need be?

Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[Theophilus]

Thanks for the reply, BBB. Yes, I did mean racking a pump shotgun... I didn't grow up with them like you did, and practice ranges/places to shoot them are some distance away, enough so that I'd have to be really committed to get in the practice at the moment. On the other hand, I'm used to revolvers, and obviously can shoot them at the local ranges.

Even with the 13" Judge, I wonder if it's more unwieldy than I'd like in a home defense role. Have to use two hands to shoot it properly, which could be a challenge in a grappling situation. Also, if we get that knock on the door from someone who might be an actual salesman, or might have ill intentions and be looking for entry... I do like answering the door with concealment vs having some long gun held behind my back. My carry gun (and current home defense gun) is a 6-shot LCR... easy peazy.

Anyway, thanks for responding. I'll admit, I am drawn to the "cool factor" a bit with this one (it seems only some of us are), and I can imagine scenarios where it works well with a light on it for checking/clearing the property. I've read your post carefully and will keep thinking this one through.

[44 AMP]

I see a Judge with a 13" barrel, forearm, blast shield and an optics rail.

SO, heavy, awkward, and badly balanced, I suppose it would make a decent club to wack someone with.

I have a 14" Contender. It is extremely difficult to shoot accurately offhand, but braced its very accurate. A revolver that size is heavier (and even more so if you add an optic or a flashlight or both).

I have experience with the .45Colt /.410 Contender. I never bought into the hype about the .410 for self defense. I've always felt a .45 caliber bullet that goes where you aim it is superior to 3 .41 caliber balls that go somewhere in a pattern near where you aim it.

TO my way of thinking, Taurus took a poor idea (the Judge) and made it worse.

[jar]

Most ranges won't allow shotgun rounds shot so you wouldn't get to practice with it anyway.

[FrankenMauser]

does the HD version of the Judge start to provide a reasonable compromise between handgun and long gun for defending the interior of an average-sized home?

Nope.
You're still better off with a handgun chambered for a proper cartridge. -Especially a handgun that you know and shoot well.

[rclark]

...chambered for a proper cartridge

.45 Colt is the proper cartridge . But of course, as said above ... up to the individual what 'revolver' and cartridge one will use for home defense.

[Forte S+W]

Okay, so as someone who actually owns a Taurus Judge which was intended for use as a bedside Home Defense firearm, I can actually weigh in on this...

So throughout the years I've gone through a few prospective Home Defense firearms, with the first of which being a 2017 Taurus Judge Magnum Revolver with a 3" Barrel. I originally chose it over other options because it was inexpensive, easily maneuverable in tight spaces being a handgun, and potentially extremely effective being capable of shooting not only .45 Long Colt but also 3" Magnum .410 Shotshells. My choice of defensive ammunition consisted of two rounds of 225gr Barnes VOR-TX .45LC and three Federal Premium .410 Handgun 000 Buck 3" Shotshells, which based on testing videos I had seen on YouTube appeared to be downright devastating in Ballistics Gel Tests conducted by ShootingtheBull410.

By the next year I had decided that I wanted something a bit more powerful which could mount a flashlight, yet could still be deployed quickly under stress and maneuverable in tight spaces, which lead me to purchase a Mossberg 590 Shockwave 12 Gauge Pump Action Scattergun. My defensive ammo choice was five Winchester Military Grade 2-3/4" 00 Buck Shotshells.

Last has year I purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P15X — an AR Pattern Rifle chambered in the typical 5.56 NATO cartridge — which for a short time I was considering getting an Complete .300 Blackout Upper for to potentially use for Home Defense, but ultimately decided against.

Over the past several years, the firearm which I most consistently reached for when I heard a bump in the night has been the Judge, simply because it is easily the fastest to deploy and still offers adequate protection, and can be effortlessly operated one-handed.

If I had plenty of time, then I would always reach for my 590 Shockwave first because I simply feel more confident with a 12 Gauge than a .410, but realistically speaking, 5 pellets of 000 Buck out of a Judge striking a Home Invader center mass is most likely going to stop the threat.

On the subject of the Judge Home Defender in particular, I dunno... It's definitely a valid option, but given its size and weight, isn't likely going to be much faster to deploy than say a Mossberg 590 Shockwave, which as previously stated would be my first choice. Even if you consider recoil a factor, the Shockwave is not only available in .410, but the 12 Gauge model can chamber Mini Shells which offer similar performance, payload, and recoil to .410, but can also fit more shells into a magazine tube.

Regardless, I have no doubt that a Judge Home Defender would work just fine in a Home Defense situation.

[44caliberkid]

Looking at the poll results and remembering past threads on this same subject, there is a definite divide between lovers and haters, with no middle ground. My brother won a Judge at a Pheasants Forever banquet years ago. I have fired it and didn’t particularly like it but his wife liked it and it was what she reached for when strange or unexpected vehicles came down their isolated rural road. I bought her one of those Federal ammo packs with the defense 410 shells and 45 Colt rounds for Christmas several years running.

[44 AMP]

Regarding the Home Defender model, I wouldn't choose a 5 shot revolver with a 13" barrel (and forearm) for home defense, no matter what cartridge(s) it fired.

While the 12 ga is an outstanding stopper, the .410, firing a payload 1/3 as much (or less) simply can't be thought of as in the same class. Yes, its a shotgun, but its the smallest bore shotgun and lacks the mass that makes the bigger bore guns so effective.

Between the length of the action (3 in shell cylinder) and 13" of barrel, you've got a very long, fairly heavy and poorly balanced PISTOL, and. to my mind, that does not compensate for being able to fire .410 shells, and is a fairly serious drawback in terms of handling compared to more conventional pistols.

[Mike Irwin]

I just now became aware of the "home defender."

Taurus needs to go out of business.

[Wilson154]

I think the long barrel would be a problem for home defense. Years ago I had a judge with a 4 in. barrel and I found that at least with the one I owned the accuracy was poor. Since it has a rifled barrel for slugs & 45 long colt it didn't hold any pattern at longer distance with buckshot. I found that it also didn't shoot the 45 long colt well either but held ok accuracy with slugs. I think it might have had something to do with the type of rifling they used but I am not sure. If the longest shot you would be taking is 20 ft. then you should be fine with buckshot but that restricts the use of that firearm to your home and not practical for use anywhere else. Now if you are ok with that then it may be great for you. I will say it was fun to shoot. I actually thought about getting another one a year ago but after weighing the pros and cons I went with the Taurus 44 magnum with a 6 in. barrel instead because I take it with me when I am hunting.

[44 AMP]

The accuracy problems with .45 Colt /.410 guns has been known for a long time, and is twofold.

First the rifled bore required by federal law means the shot charge is getting spun, some. The fact that the shot cup does form a gas seal means that the rifling will have some effect. Not as much, I would think with a .45 bore compared to a rifled .410 bore, but still some spin.

The other problem is the long bullet jump to the rifling for the .45 Colt bullet.
Now, this does not mean every single gun won't be accurate enough, but generally they aren't as accurate as a .45 Colt only gun.

Now, at across the room or down the hall ranges inside most houses, its not a major concern, and that's why the Judge "works" as a defense gun. It would be a fine "snake gun" since one only needs to shoot snakes at very close ranges,

GO beyond that and general accuracy and also patterning gets progressively worse.

This has been my personal experience shooting .45 Colt /.410 Contender barrels and a .45 Colt (only) barrel.

[stinkeypete]

Mike's post #11 and more.

I would not shoot a PHEASANT with proper .410 shotgun (3" shell), let alone a raccoon.

That's not quite true. As I reload tungsten shot, 40% greater than lead, a .410 load of #9 tungsten is now a solid turkey load at 50 yards.

So if you say "hey, I am going to put #4 tungsten buckshot in this goofball Taurus thing" then maybe we need to meet at the range and see what it does to some plywood.

If you say "But Pete! Ten bucks a shell, since I don't reload? That's too much!"

Then I will mock you and say "What, $60 is ammo is too expensive when your life is on the line?"

Sorry, I stand by my statement- I would not hunt pheasant with a .410 or shoot a raccoon with it. The raccoon would not be killed.

[jetinteriorguy]

Interesting about shooting a pheasant with a .410. Back home growing up in NoDak that’s what we learned to hunt upland game with. I first started when I was 12 years old and getting game with the.410 meant you had to be quick on the draw and right on the money with your shot. By the time I was 14 I could get just as much game as my brothers with their 12 gauges, mostly partridge and occasionally grouse and I even shot a pheasant once. Then when I turned 15 I bought a Stevens double barrel 16 gauge and that’s the only shotgun I’ve had my whole life. I bagged a ton of game with it from partridge up to Magnum Canada geese, also jack rabbits, some fox, raccoon, and even a coyote once. About the only thing I never bagged with the 16 gauge was a deer, but I did shoot at one once with a slug but I missed.

[44 AMP]

I would not shoot a PHEASANT with proper .410 shotgun (3" shell), let alone a raccoon.

IT is good that you recognize your limitations and won't shoot what you can't hit properly. Because that is the only reason a .410 won't perform within its limitations.

The only thing that keeps a .410 from being an effective bird and pest gun is the judgement and skill of the shooter. The judgement to choose the correct ammunition and to only take shots within the effective range of the ammo, and the skill to actually put the shot where it needs to go.

This is true with all cartridges, but the smaller you go, the more critical these factors become. While often used as a "beginner shotgun" because of its low recoil, it is a poor choice for that. It is actually more of an expert's gun compared to larger bore shotguns.

Power? Pellet for pellet the .410 is as powerful as larger shotguns, but there are fewer pellets and it is more difficult to get them "on target" at range. You have to be very precise, and that is something difficult for many people when wingshooting. And for ground bound pests, simply choose the right ammo, and hit them were it matters.

Don't shoot skunks, coons feral dogs etc. with dove shot and expect DRT. It's unlikely to happen. Don't shoot them in the wrong place, either.

I once saw a fellow fail to dispatch a skunk using a .357 carbine. Range was short (maybe 20 feet) but he was a poor shot, using a poor choice of ammo for small game and he hit the skunk TWICE, behind the boiler room (gutshots) before he lost his confidence, and asked me to put the skunk down. I was less than impressed with his ability. One round to the head, from the .45 Colt I was wearing did the job cleanly. (I only used the .45 because that's what I had on me. A .410 or even a .22 would have worked just as well.)

If you think the .410 lacks the power to be effective, I suggest you look at some slugs. I have some Win 3" slugs that are about 110gr and doing 1800fps according to the info on the box. Even allowing for some inflated claims, that still more than a 9mm or .357 from a handgun.

[Forte S+W]

I can't help but feel like this is the wrong forum to post such a question on considering that the staff members themselves are so comically biased against the Judge that there have actually been threads locked on the subject for seemingly no other reason than gaining too many positive responses, not to mention proclaiming that Taurus needs to go out of business for offering the firearm in question.

Honestly, if such sentiments were expressed elsewhere by the same exact users, even those who don't like the Judge and think it was a novelty would be exasperated by such petulant pettiness.

Seriously, dial it down it a bit. Staff members ought to be more professional, more responsible, more mature, and above all else more conscientious about setting an example for the community to follow.

[TruthTellers]

It's basically a Circuit Judge with a shorter barrel and no stock, but even for home defense this still comes off as a poor idea because why buy this over the Circuit Judge? Since it doesn't have a stock, it's a pistol and in some states that makes it more difficult to buy.

I like the Public Defender because there's no benefits to a longer barrel or grip and the 3" .410's only shoot one more pellet of 000; not worth the extra size and weight. The Circuit Judge I think has something going for it and maybe the 6 inch barreled Judges, but this new one screams to me worst Judge and when it came out I honestly thought it was Taurus doing their version of the Lady's Home Companion Cobray once made.

This topic is turning into more a bash the Judge as a whole instead of focusing on the Home Defender. I won't say the Judge is perfect, but it offers something not many other guns do in a useful package, as does the Circuit Judge. The Home Defender offers nothing and isn't something I would buy.

[Mike Irwin]

"I can't help but feel like this is the wrong forum to post such a question on considering that the staff members themselves are so comically biased against the Judge that there have actually been threads locked on the subject for seemingly no other reason than gaining too many positive responses, not to mention proclaiming that Taurus needs to go out of business for offering the firearm in question."

Yep, that's us, on the super secret payroll of companies that aren't peddling a highly questionable concept to potential customers who don't know enough to understand just how questionable a concept these guns are.

The ThunderFive introduced this questionable concept some 30 years ago now.

It was stupid then, it remains, in its many new iterations, stupid.

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, and just for everyone's edification, staff here is apparently SO horribly biased against the Judge that the last two threads that were locked on the subject were...

SIX YEARS AGO.

One was locked because people started sniping at each other, and the other one was locked because it was largely a duplicate of a thread that had been going on for some time (and which was NEVER locked).

You weren't even a member here at TFL when the last Taurus Judge thread was locked.


Your claim is... specious.

[44 AMP]

Yep, that's us, on the super secret payroll of companies that aren't peddling a highly questionable concept to potential customers who don't know enough to understand just how questionable a concept these guns are.

Wait..what.,, we get PAID?????

Sarcasm and humor aside (for now), the concept of a powerful handgun that can also fire shot as a hiking, fishing, camp companion does have merit. Shot loads for pistols have been around for some time, though not in all calibers, and often not commonly stocked on shelves, and some are a bit pricy. Handloaders can make their own shot loads if they choose.

For the non-reloader or in a caliber the factories don't load shot shells, the Judge concept allows the use of .410 shells in a .45 Colt caliber pistol. Its a niche market, but if it fills your niche, I'm fine with that. I fill that particular niche (snake gun also able to fire bullets) with a .45Colt/.410 barrel on a Contender frame.

What I always thought was wrong was marketing it as a somehow superior home defense (or even a carry) gun.

It was a brilliant marketing idea, in that by playing to the un and under informed people's belief in the MYTH of not needing to aim a shotgun, and the power of a shotgun (12ga is the only thing that even slows down the Terminator, you know ) they are selling their product to those people, and that's what marketing is all about. Not what's best. but selling what you make.

I believe that the Home Defender is aimed at people who buy guns for their "cool looks" and not for how well they can be used or actually work. A 13" barrel revolver does not have anywhere near the real world field utility of the same gun with a shorter barrel. Not even close. A 6" or shorter barrel is much more manageable, and better balanced.

So, I think its barking stupid, and even less efficient than the smaller versions. Just my personal opinion. If you love it, buy it, its your $ and your personal butt on the line, if it comes to that.

I have other and better guns for want I want and need.

[Forte S+W]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

"I can't help but feel like this is the wrong forum to post such a question on considering that the staff members themselves are so comically biased against the Judge that there have actually been threads locked on the subject for seemingly no other reason than gaining too many positive responses, not to mention proclaiming that Taurus needs to go out of business for offering the firearm in question."

Yep, that's us, on the super secret payroll of companies that aren't peddling a highly questionable concept to potential customers who don't know enough to understand just how questionable a concept these guns are.

The ThunderFive introduced this questionable concept some 30 years ago now.

It was stupid then, it remains, in its many new iterations, stupid.

I don't recall saying anything about being on a payroll, I specifically said that such persistent mockery and hatred for a firearm was petulant, petty, unprofessional, and sets a bad example for the community to follow.

If you disagree, then by all means, explain to me how your criticism is mature, objective, professional, and doesn't encourage users to make similar posts whenever someone posts a thread in regards to a firearm which they dislike.

Somehow I doubt that if an ordinary user went around, never missing an opportunity to make denigrating comments in regards to brands/firearms that you like, then eventually they'd get warned, instructed that if they don't like the brand/firearm in question, then they ought to stay out of threads on the subject, because such posts are disruptive and contribute nothing to the discussion whatsoever save to annoy/offend other users, thus classifying such behavior as a form of trolling.
Of course, that would be the response of a responsible, mature, moderator/administrator, so perhaps I'm setting my expectations too high...

Honestly, I don't intend to bash you here, I'm literally attempting to provide you with constructive criticism by informing you that such behavior doesn't reflect well upon you nor the community you represent because it indirectly encourages drive-by troll posts by spreading the message that such behavior is permitted here. If it is, then carry on, but otherwise, you may want to consider your behavior, how it makes you appear to others, and whether you wish to change it.

Try looking at yourself objectively and consider whether your behavior seems like that of a responsible moderator/administrator or that of a schoolyard heckler.

[Mike Irwin]

So, what you're apparently claiming, is that anything other than celebratory lauding of the .410 revolver concept is... something.

Whatever.

I've been on this site for over 20 years, as has 44AMP.

Why don't you do some searching and reading of the MANY discussions we've participated in regarding these ridiculous "solutions" in search of a purpose.

Being a staff member doesn't mean that we either have to surrender our own opinions OR suck up the corporate Koolaide in an effort to make people who have been duped into buying one of these ludicrous creations feel good about a poor choice.

No matter what, though, your claim that we on staff go our of our way to close, out of hand, threads on this topic is crap with absolutely no basis in reality.

[44 AMP]

"Lighten up, Francis!" -Sgt Hulke in Stripes....

Congratulations, you have successfully baited us into taking the thread off topic, but, no more.

IF the Staff were behaving the way you accuse us of doing, you'd already have a warning, if not actual infraction points for posting off topic. And, this may yet happen.

Your opinion of how the moderators should express their personal opinions when participating in a thread is not the topic of this thread.

IF you think this is a valid topic for discussion, start a thread about it. Do keep in mind ALL the forum rules when doing so.

The topic is the Taurus Judge Home Defender.

[5whiskey]

Back on topic... I voted gimmick. I could see value in a 45colt/.410 revolver as a snake/barnyard/trail gun. But I have enough experience to know that rifling opens shot patterns up. A LOT. On top of the fact that shot patterns from a pistol length barrel won't exactly be "tight." As to the 45 Colt, I've shot enough C&B revolver to know that projectiles that require a significant jump from the cylinder chamber to the forcing con4 just aren't as accurate. This is literally one reason why over powder felt wads in various thicknesses exist. And dacron or cornstarch fillers are used when shooting light BP loads. That long jump the 45 Colt has to male will affect accuracy.

Concur with others. It's marketed as "The Premier" SD and HD gun, but it has serious drawbacks.