Cold Weather Rifle Trouble

aprubio · November 28, 2006, 12:26 PM

Although most of my hunting is done near home in South Florida, I take a trip to the northern Wisconsin woods once a year. This past seasson, I had a problem with my rifle I had once before, about 2 years ago.

I'm shooting a Marlin 336 .35 caliber - great gun that has put down a lot of deer over the years. The problem is that when it gets to about 20 degrees, the rifle jams. Specifically, when the lever is pulled down, the mechanism inside freezes and it takes a good couple minutes with a small screwdriver (and plenty of noise) to get it unstuck. As long as the temperature stays above 30, not a single problem with the rifle.

I'm considering getting a Browning BLR or BAR in either 30-06 or .300 and keeping the .35 in warmer weather. I hate to do it, but missed a good sized doe this year and don't want a repeat next.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

rgitzlaff · November 28, 2006, 01:21 PM

It's because of the lubricant inside your mechanisms freezing. To remedy, you'll need to clean out any lubricant with a solvent like break cleaner and make sure it is all throughly dried. Relubricate with some type of dry lube. Or you could just leave it plain unlubricated for hunting, but you'll want to lubricate it again after you are out of the cold, it's never good to leave moving parts unlubricated for long.

oldbillthundercheif · November 28, 2006, 01:50 PM

This stuff is the best. When I'm freezing my tail off in an Indiana cornfield, this stuff keeps my firearms functional. If it gets well below freezing, there is no substitute. Pretty much any liquid lube quickly forms into frozen chunks or a gooey tar under these conditions. Hornady "One Shot" Graphite:

MacGille · November 28, 2006, 03:00 PM

In the Army, we were told not to oil our M-1's because the lubicant can cause the rifle to jam. I have followed the same procedure with all of my guns when i go into the field, I clean them and DO NOT lubricate. It would be a rare rifle that had tolerances so tight that it wouldn't function without lubing. After the hunt clean and lubricate. Lubrication in a rifle is more for rust prevention than function.

BUSTER51 · November 28, 2006, 05:29 PM

YOU CAN USE FP10 AND never have a problem even at 8 below.

Ruger4570 · November 28, 2006, 07:47 PM

I am sure there are lots of lubes that will work at cold temps,, I still to run my guns completly dry. For the few shots you will get, there is no way you are going to damage them or wear parts down.

aprubio · November 29, 2006, 01:43 PM

Thanks for the advice! Not having too much experience in cold weather, didn't know what the problem was. I thought that the metal had expanded.

UniversalFrost · November 29, 2006, 01:52 PM

CLP, lithium grease, or graphite powder (like the one already mentioned or the stuff remington sells for fishing reels).

I am in south dakota and have hunted all over the midwest (ND, NE, MN, MT, IA, KS) and have never had a problem with my guns freezing up. Some do get a little stiff below freezing, but that is the nature of things. Sounds like you may have a seriously gummed up action that has old grease in it. A thorough cleaning is in order. If you use break cleaner it will strip off the varnish from the stock and take off the blueing. Get a good cleaner/degreaser like hoppes or butch's and you won't have a problem.

FirstFreedom · November 29, 2006, 02:07 PM

I agree that that particular cold-weather gun problem sounds like frozen lube. BUT, another problem to watch for and steer cleer of in very cold weather, which will make your gun not work, is frozen condensation. This happens when you keep your rifle in your warm tent/camper/cabin overnight, then get up and take off to hunt in the early AM - going from warm to very cold creates condensation, which can then instantly freeze, resulting in such things as firing pins not going forward in the bolt when released. Solution: In very cold weather, always store your gun *OUTSIDE* overnight.

Trip20 · November 29, 2006, 02:27 PM

You sure it's not something else going wrong in the action? I don't doubt it's possible you had frozen parts, but considering the temps (even the lows) it didn't seem cold enough to freeze parts to the point of them not working... I wonder if there's not another issue.

In Athens, WI I experienced temps in the 40's through the mid-50's through out the 9-day gun deer season. Opening day was a bit chilly, but it quickly got warmer through out the week.

If I have an opportunity, I'll take a look at my 336 in .35remington when I get home and see what could be causing the problem. Otherwise, some of the lubes suggested above might solve the problem if the parts are actually freezing.

Hope you didn't spoil any good opportunities fixin' your weapon.

aprubio · December 5, 2006, 03:46 PM

Thanks again for the help.

I was up in the Ladysmith area and it got pretty cold Sunday and Monday mornings - in the teens. Saturday was warmer and had no issues whatsoever with the rifle.

rhino · December 5, 2006, 07:00 PM

There are a variety of lubricants (like FP-10) that will be fine when used properly in any temperatures you can tolerate, whether low or high.

If the problem is at 20F, it might be the choice of lube. It might also be condensation (water) that freezes in there.

I don't hesitate to lube my guns exactly the same way in all types of weather, but I use lubes that are relatively unaffected by cold or hot.

FP-10
TW25B (both the grease and the oil)
TetraLube

There are plenty of others, but those are the lubes I've used down to -8F with zero problems. I usually stay inside when it's colder, but the lubes are good to temps well below what humans can tolerate for any length of time.

Nanuk · December 5, 2006, 11:18 PM

In North Dakota we see temps around -40 with windchills near -65 for extended periods of time. Most here use some type of sythetic lube. I use automotive Mobile 1. It has friction modifiers which help,plus the synthetic flows at extreme tempuratures, and it does not evaporate and form varnish. As was posted earlier, use a spay solvent to remove the old lube first. Another cause is condensation caused by the weapon cooling and then warming. I am an LEO and run an M-4 in the cold with no problems.

stevelyn · December 6, 2006, 05:04 AM

I've never had a problem with Break-Free at temps of -25 F and colder. It's supposed to stay operational to about -60 F. Eezoxx is rated even lower into the -70s or better. I never tried it myself. I usually just stay home and throw more wood into the stove when it's that cold.

The more likely problem that you'll run into is condensation freezing in and on your gun rather than lube issues.

rhino · December 6, 2006, 12:28 PM

That's three votes for the condensation freezing possibility!

Tomas · December 7, 2006, 12:28 AM

Run it dry.

Military has been doing it for years, with m16s. When I was training in Norway while in the Marines we dried 'em off and shot the bejesus out of them.

Soviets figured it out in WWII - when it's super cold, dry all the internals and kill the enemy.

Maybe a good lube now a days when its cold, but I won't trust it.

Tom

Buckythebrewer · December 7, 2006, 01:03 AM

What FirstFreedom(and others) mentioned happend to me.I had a 30-30 side eject lever action that FROZE from condensation(maybe from the heat from my gloves,I don't know??).I would personally(because I have used it in my AR15 IN THE COLD)use Marvel oil because it is a very light oil that does not freeze easy and it lubricates VERY well.I would almost bet it would fight off moisture too..When My lever action froze up I was PISSED!!!

It takes alot to actually FREEZE a gun lubricant so I would guess it is from water some how.JMO

frankxd · December 7, 2006, 12:37 PM

I saw an interesting show on the battle of Stalingrad. The bolts of the German K98's were freezing shut and making the rifle inoperable. The Russians did not have this problem because they would mix gasoline into their gun oil. The gas would keep the oil from freezing.

While I'm sure that there are modern products that will work better for you, I thought that it was an interesting fact.

November 28, 2006, 12:26 PM	#1
aprubio Member Join Date: November 28, 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 18	Cold Weather Rifle Trouble Although most of my hunting is done near home in South Florida, I take a trip to the northern Wisconsin woods once a year. This past seasson, I had a problem with my rifle I had once before, about 2 years ago. I'm shooting a Marlin 336 .35 caliber - great gun that has put down a lot of deer over the years. The problem is that when it gets to about 20 degrees, the rifle jams. Specifically, when the lever is pulled down, the mechanism inside freezes and it takes a good couple minutes with a small screwdriver (and plenty of noise) to get it unstuck. As long as the temperature stays above 30, not a single problem with the rifle. I'm considering getting a Browning BLR or BAR in either 30-06 or .300 and keeping the .35 in warmer weather. I hate to do it, but missed a good sized doe this year and don't want a repeat next. Any suggestions? Thanks

November 29, 2006, 01:52 PM	#8
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	CLP, lithium grease, or graphite powder (like the one already mentioned or the stuff remington sells for fishing reels). I am in south dakota and have hunted all over the midwest (ND, NE, MN, MT, IA, KS) and have never had a problem with my guns freezing up. Some do get a little stiff below freezing, but that is the nature of things. Sounds like you may have a seriously gummed up action that has old grease in it. A thorough cleaning is in order. If you use break cleaner it will strip off the varnish from the stock and take off the blueing. Get a good cleaner/degreaser like hoppes or butch's and you won't have a problem. __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

December 6, 2006, 05:04 AM	#14
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	I've never had a problem with Break-Free at temps of -25 F and colder. It's supposed to stay operational to about -60 F. Eezoxx is rated even lower into the -70s or better. I never tried it myself. I usually just stay home and throw more wood into the stove when it's that cold. The more likely problem that you'll run into is condensation freezing in and on your gun rather than lube issues. __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

December 7, 2006, 01:03 AM	#17
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	What FirstFreedom(and others) mentioned happend to me.I had a 30-30 side eject lever action that FROZE from condensation(maybe from the heat from my gloves,I don't know??).I would personally(because I have used it in my AR15 IN THE COLD)use Marvel oil because it is a very light oil that does not freeze easy and it lubricates VERY well.I would almost bet it would fight off moisture too..When My lever action froze up I was PISSED!!!It takes alot to actually FREEZE a gun lubricant so I would guess it is from water some how.JMO

November 28, 2006, 01:21 PM	#2
rgitzlaff Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 524	It's because of the lubricant inside your mechanisms freezing. To remedy, you'll need to clean out any lubricant with a solvent like break cleaner and make sure it is all throughly dried. Relubricate with some type of dry lube. Or you could just leave it plain unlubricated for hunting, but you'll want to lubricate it again after you are out of the cold, it's never good to leave moving parts unlubricated for long.

November 28, 2006, 01:50 PM	#3
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	This stuff is the best. When I'm freezing my tail off in an Indiana cornfield, this stuff keeps my firearms functional. If it gets well below freezing, there is no substitute. Pretty much any liquid lube quickly forms into frozen chunks or a gooey tar under these conditions. Hornady "One Shot" Graphite:

November 28, 2006, 03:00 PM	#4
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	In the Army, we were told not to oil our M-1's because the lubicant can cause the rifle to jam. I have followed the same procedure with all of my guns when i go into the field, I clean them and DO NOT lubricate. It would be a rare rifle that had tolerances so tight that it wouldn't function without lubing. After the hunt clean and lubricate. Lubrication in a rifle is more for rust prevention than function.

November 28, 2006, 05:29 PM	#5
BUSTER51 Junior member Join Date: December 28, 2004 Location: PHOENIX, AZ Posts: 992	YOU CAN USE FP10 AND never have a problem even at 8 below.

November 28, 2006, 07:47 PM	#6
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I am sure there are lots of lubes that will work at cold temps,, I still to run my guns completly dry. For the few shots you will get, there is no way you are going to damage them or wear parts down.

November 29, 2006, 01:43 PM	#7
aprubio Member Join Date: November 28, 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 18	Thanks for the advice! Not having too much experience in cold weather, didn't know what the problem was. I thought that the metal had expanded.

November 29, 2006, 02:07 PM	#9
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	I agree that that particular cold-weather gun problem sounds like frozen lube. BUT, another problem to watch for and steer cleer of in very cold weather, which will make your gun not work, is frozen condensation. This happens when you keep your rifle in your warm tent/camper/cabin overnight, then get up and take off to hunt in the early AM - going from warm to very cold creates condensation, which can then instantly freeze, resulting in such things as firing pins not going forward in the bolt when released. Solution: In very cold weather, always store your gun OUTSIDE overnight.

November 29, 2006, 02:27 PM	#10
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	You sure it's not something else going wrong in the action? I don't doubt it's possible you had frozen parts, but considering the temps (even the lows) it didn't seem cold enough to freeze parts to the point of them not working... I wonder if there's not another issue. In Athens, WI I experienced temps in the 40's through the mid-50's through out the 9-day gun deer season. Opening day was a bit chilly, but it quickly got warmer through out the week. If I have an opportunity, I'll take a look at my 336 in .35remington when I get home and see what could be causing the problem. Otherwise, some of the lubes suggested above might solve the problem if the parts are actually freezing. Hope you didn't spoil any good opportunities fixin' your weapon.

December 5, 2006, 03:46 PM	#11
aprubio Member Join Date: November 28, 2006 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 18	Thanks again for the help. I was up in the Ladysmith area and it got pretty cold Sunday and Monday mornings - in the teens. Saturday was warmer and had no issues whatsoever with the rifle.

December 5, 2006, 07:00 PM	#12
rhino Member Join Date: August 25, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 80	There are a variety of lubricants (like FP-10) that will be fine when used properly in any temperatures you can tolerate, whether low or high. If the problem is at 20F, it might be the choice of lube. It might also be condensation (water) that freezes in there. I don't hesitate to lube my guns exactly the same way in all types of weather, but I use lubes that are relatively unaffected by cold or hot. FP-10 TW25B (both the grease and the oil) TetraLube There are plenty of others, but those are the lubes I've used down to -8F with zero problems. I usually stay inside when it's colder, but the lubes are good to temps well below what humans can tolerate for any length of time.

December 5, 2006, 11:18 PM	#13
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	In North Dakota we see temps around -40 with windchills near -65 for extended periods of time. Most here use some type of sythetic lube. I use automotive Mobile 1. It has friction modifiers which help,plus the synthetic flows at extreme tempuratures, and it does not evaporate and form varnish. As was posted earlier, use a spay solvent to remove the old lube first. Another cause is condensation caused by the weapon cooling and then warming. I am an LEO and run an M-4 in the cold with no problems.

December 6, 2006, 12:28 PM	#15
rhino Member Join Date: August 25, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 80	That's three votes for the condensation freezing possibility!

December 7, 2006, 12:28 AM	#16
Tomas Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Blue State Posts: 441	Run it dry. Military has been doing it for years, with m16s. When I was training in Norway while in the Marines we dried 'em off and shot the bejesus out of them. Soviets figured it out in WWII - when it's super cold, dry all the internals and kill the enemy. Maybe a good lube now a days when its cold, but I won't trust it. Tom

December 7, 2006, 12:37 PM	#18
frankxd Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2006 Posts: 211	I saw an interesting show on the battle of Stalingrad. The bolts of the German K98's were freezing shut and making the rifle inoperable. The Russians did not have this problem because they would mix gasoline into their gun oil. The gas would keep the oil from freezing. While I'm sure that there are modern products that will work better for you, I thought that it was an interesting fact.