Question on .45acp ammo

tipoc · August 14, 2006, 11:12 AM

Some years back ammo manufacturers introduced 185 gr. JHP loads for the .45 acp. This at the time that many good loads of 230 Gr. JHP were available. What was the thinking on why the 185 gr. was introduced and why has it ramained popular?

tipoc

Mark54g · August 14, 2006, 11:52 AM

Shorter barrel guns do better with lighter projectiles..

john in jax · August 14, 2006, 12:10 PM

Speed - - Elmer Kieth and a lot of the "old-timers" advocated LSB's (Large Slow Bullets). But now-a-days it's all about smaller, faster bullets.

Most 230grns manage 800-900fps, while some of the 185grn +P+ manages to get just over 1,000fps.

roger-ruger · August 14, 2006, 12:24 PM

"Speed - - Elmer Kieth and a lot of the "old-timers" advocated LSB's (Large Slow Bullets). But now-a-days it's all about smaller, faster bullets."

Can't be the resurgence of the 45acp in different pistol brands says it all. But to some it may be. But for me im sticking it out with the 45acp.

Jim Watson · August 14, 2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Some years back ammo manufacturers introduced 185 gr. JHP loads for the .45 acp. This at the time that many good loads of 230 Gr. JHP were available.

That is news to me.
The first .45 JHP that ever saw, in the late 1960s, was the 190 gr Super Vel. The only other hollowpoint then on the market was the 230 gr Norma, which did not amount to much.
The original Remington, Federal, and Winchester (Silvertip) JHPs were all 185 grains, best I recall. I believe the thinking was that the hollowpoints of the day could not be counted on to expand until at or near 1000 fps, so they made them light enough to make it.

Hafoc · August 14, 2006, 12:53 PM

Well, not to inject TOO much cynicism into the discussion-- but there's a wise saying that goes "Whenever you ask 'Why don't they make...' the answer is always 'money.'" It follows that whenever you ask "Why do they make...?" the answer is also "money."

Not to say that 185 gr. hollowpoints aren't good; not to say that any of the available weights aren't good. But whether they're good or not doesn't really matter. They appear because the manufacturers think they're going to sell. It's as simple as that.

OBIWAN · August 14, 2006, 01:47 PM

The best bullet designs of 10-15 years ago all required a lot of velocity in order to perform well.....hence the lighter projectiles and the tendency towards +p rounds...esspecially from shorter barrels

Newer bullet designs are more consistent over a more broad velocity range

tipoc · August 14, 2006, 01:48 PM

Jim W.,

I assume you're correct so the answer to my question "Why the 185 Gr. JHP" would be...Super Vel was an innovator in bullet design. Lee Jurras came up with the concept of a light hp round at higher velocity that would more reliably expand than either the few JHPs of the day or the FMJ or LSWC bullets of the time.

I know Super Vel developed similiar loads (lighter bullet, JHP, higher velocity) for the .38Spl., 9mm, .357 and a few others. Didn't make the connection with the .45acp. Thanks.

Why is it favored by some today? Does it "work better" out of shorter barrels? 230 gr. JHPs tend to work quite well so what is the point?

tipoc

shield20 · August 14, 2006, 01:57 PM

Alot of people still hold to the benefits of higher velocity - real or otherwise; some love those big Energy numbers posted on the box. In shorter barrels they give you more fps then the 230s, which can still give an edge for expansion anjd help with recoil. I picked 200gr (XTP) in my Commander to try to get the best combo of weight and speed, as I wanted the extra zip w/o +p recoil.

Love&Hate12 · August 14, 2006, 02:17 PM

I have chronographed the Corbon 185 grain at 1200 fps out of my Sig220.

Not too many rounds are going to top a 185 grainer at that speed, that's 10mm range and also has 10mm recoil.

I load 230's for the less recoil and honestly the weight makes up for the lack of velocity somewhat, 230's hit very hard and the foot pound measuring can't measure the felt impact completely so I hear, the 230's aren't going to be as intense as those +p 185's though .

If I only had one shot I would choose the fast 185 grainer because that one has to hit really hard for a pistol round.

tipoc · August 14, 2006, 03:35 PM

So the 185 gives you about what you get from the 40S&W with just a slightly larger bullet.

tipoc

Dave R · August 14, 2006, 11:43 PM

Sounds about right.

I chose a 185gr. bullet for my snubby Taurus PT-145 because I chronoed some 230gr. loads, and found that short barrel was only giving me about 750fps. I was worried JHP's wouldn't expand at that low velocity. The 185gr. load gave me about 900fps. I figured I'd get better performance at that velocity.

Just my opinion.

August 14, 2006, 11:12 AM	#1
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Question on .45acp ammo Some years back ammo manufacturers introduced 185 gr. JHP loads for the .45 acp. This at the time that many good loads of 230 Gr. JHP were available. What was the thinking on why the 185 gr. was introduced and why has it ramained popular? tipoc

August 14, 2006, 11:52 AM	#2
Mark54g Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,265	Shorter barrel guns do better with lighter projectiles.. __________________ CZ 75B Stainless Beretta PX4 F Series 9mm & U22 Neos 6" black S&W Shield 9mm

August 14, 2006, 12:10 PM	#3
john in jax Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2005 Posts: 1,177	F.p.s. Speed - - Elmer Kieth and a lot of the "old-timers" advocated LSB's (Large Slow Bullets). But now-a-days it's all about smaller, faster bullets. Most 230grns manage 800-900fps, while some of the 185grn +P+ manages to get just over 1,000fps. __________________ America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. Claire Wolfe

August 14, 2006, 11:43 PM	#12
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Sounds about right. I chose a 185gr. bullet for my snubby Taurus PT-145 because I chronoed some 230gr. loads, and found that short barrel was only giving me about 750fps. I was worried JHP's wouldn't expand at that low velocity. The 185gr. load gave me about 900fps. I figured I'd get better performance at that velocity. Just my opinion. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

August 14, 2006, 12:24 PM	#4
roger-ruger Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2005 Posts: 251	"Speed - - Elmer Kieth and a lot of the "old-timers" advocated LSB's (Large Slow Bullets). But now-a-days it's all about smaller, faster bullets." Can't be the resurgence of the 45acp in different pistol brands says it all. But to some it may be. But for me im sticking it out with the 45acp.

August 14, 2006, 12:53 PM	#6
Hafoc Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 552	Well, not to inject TOO much cynicism into the discussion-- but there's a wise saying that goes "Whenever you ask 'Why don't they make...' the answer is always 'money.'" It follows that whenever you ask "Why do they make...?" the answer is also "money." Not to say that 185 gr. hollowpoints aren't good; not to say that any of the available weights aren't good. But whether they're good or not doesn't really matter. They appear because the manufacturers think they're going to sell. It's as simple as that.

August 14, 2006, 01:47 PM	#7
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	The best bullet designs of 10-15 years ago all required a lot of velocity in order to perform well.....hence the lighter projectiles and the tendency towards +p rounds...esspecially from shorter barrels Newer bullet designs are more consistent over a more broad velocity range

August 14, 2006, 01:48 PM	#8
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Jim W., I assume you're correct so the answer to my question "Why the 185 Gr. JHP" would be...Super Vel was an innovator in bullet design. Lee Jurras came up with the concept of a light hp round at higher velocity that would more reliably expand than either the few JHPs of the day or the FMJ or LSWC bullets of the time. I know Super Vel developed similiar loads (lighter bullet, JHP, higher velocity) for the .38Spl., 9mm, .357 and a few others. Didn't make the connection with the .45acp. Thanks. Why is it favored by some today? Does it "work better" out of shorter barrels? 230 gr. JHPs tend to work quite well so what is the point? tipoc

August 14, 2006, 01:57 PM	#9
shield20 Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Hudson Valley, New York Posts: 1,371	Alot of people still hold to the benefits of higher velocity - real or otherwise; some love those big Energy numbers posted on the box. In shorter barrels they give you more fps then the 230s, which can still give an edge for expansion anjd help with recoil. I picked 200gr (XTP) in my Commander to try to get the best combo of weight and speed, as I wanted the extra zip w/o +p recoil.

August 14, 2006, 02:17 PM	#10
Love&Hate12 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2005 Posts: 452	I have chronographed the Corbon 185 grain at 1200 fps out of my Sig220. Not too many rounds are going to top a 185 grainer at that speed, that's 10mm range and also has 10mm recoil. I load 230's for the less recoil and honestly the weight makes up for the lack of velocity somewhat, 230's hit very hard and the foot pound measuring can't measure the felt impact completely so I hear, the 230's aren't going to be as intense as those +p 185's though . If I only had one shot I would choose the fast 185 grainer because that one has to hit really hard for a pistol round.

August 14, 2006, 03:35 PM	#11
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	So the 185 gives you about what you get from the 40S&W with just a slightly larger bullet. tipoc