Americans told to cut the patriotism

[Horny Toad]

I know this isn't firearms related, but please forgive me. I need to vomit in public.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story...644538,00.html


Americans told to cut the patriotism

Duncan Mackay in Salt Lake City
Monday February 4, 2002
The Guardian

The organisers have been told by the International Olympic Committee to tone down overt shows of patriotism during the 2002 winter games' opening ceremony here on Friday and not to honour the victims of September 11.
"These games are held in the United States and we have deep respect and sympathy for everything that has happened since September 11," said François Carrard, the IOC's director general. "But let's not forget the games is a universal event." The opening ceremony is being televised worldwide.

A tribute "of some kind" will occur in the hour before the show to those killed in the attack on the World Trade Centre, possibly incorporating the American flag retrieved from the rubble after the terrorist attack, the Salt Lake Organising Committee president Mitt Romney suggested.

"It's not designed to be a patriotic American display," he said. "While the experience of 9/11 certainly impacts on all of us, there should not be a direct tribute in the ceremony itself."

Even before September 11 the IOC was concerned that the SLOC might incorporate too much patriotism into the opening ceremony, a criticism levelled by some at the 1984 Los Angeles and 1996 Atlanta summer games.

"Around the world it was like, 'Boy, those Americans, always beating their chests,'" said Romney. "This is not our time to talk about how great America is."

So far in the run-up to these games coverage has concentrated almost exclusively on the home competitors, raising fears of a repeat of the LA and Atlanta games when events with little home interest were rarely shown on US television.

Romney hopes the opening ceremony, due to be attended by President Bush and the United Nations secretary-general Kofi Annan, will allay such fears. The Salt Lake show was planned long before the terrorist attacks and sketched out before the 2000 summer games in Sydney, he said.

Bright lights have so far illuminated the University of Utah's Rice-Eccles stadium- "Olympic Stadium" - late into the night for rehearsals and stage construction. But particulars of the ceremony remain a secret, although it is known that the performers will include the British singers Sting and Charlotte Church.

The ceremony, in its varied form, will reflect the culture and history of Utah and the American West, Romney said. It will also highlight Olympic spirit and the international community.

However, one possible complication could be the weather with forecasters expecting strong storms in northern Utah from Friday morning. The fear is that performers in large costumes could be "blown away" if heavy winds kick up.



Horny Toad

[trapshooter]

I'm having a small fantasy.

"Dear IOC'

Bite me. Games cancelled.

Thanks,
Mitt Romney"

Never happen, but it sure would be fun to see the spewage.

[Bogie]

Actually, I sorta agree with 'em. The Olympics aren't about that. They're about sports. 'Nuff said.

Face it - I'm sorta hacked off by many of the "new found" and "fashionable" patriots out there... They're the same people who would have called many of us "militia crazies" or worse six months ago, simply for flying a flag...

[Justin]

Bogie-

Well put.

[WyldOne]

bogie, i agree 100%.

these so-called "patriots", i'm willing to bet money didn't vote last november, and won't vote this coming november. (different rant though...)

[Mike Irwin]

I think every athlete, as he checks in, should be issued a 12-pack of Coors, a bag of Big Macs, an American flag, and a handgun.

[Vladimir_Berkov]

US patriotism is terrible for the IOC, but apparently holding the 1936 games in Nazi Germany, with Hitler as the opening speaker and Nazi banners abounding is just fine and dandy.

[Aion]

Vlad: I agree with your sentiment, but maybe that's exactly what the IOC is trying to avoid: another "Triumph of the Will." Not that I think it would be, just that that's their fear.

Or maybe it's yet another chance for them to spit in our faces yet again.

- Aion

[Mike Irwin]

Just read in Reuters news briefs that the IOC has reversed itself and will now allow the American team to carry the World Trade Center flag into the stadium during the opening ceremonies.

[Navy joe]

Vlad, funny you should say that. Get yourself some pictures of 1935 German social events and compare them to post September pics. The only thing different is the symbols on the flags. Most Germans were rather like us, ordinary folks who supported Hitler's ascent to power because it offered them an alternative to post WW1 humiliation, i.e. it appealed to their patriotism. Thus they blindly went along with damn near anything that the media/govt complex spit out. Not much thought involved, just blind obedience.

Nationalism for the sake of nationalism is just bad business. I would much prefer quiet sentiment based firmly on the ideals that a nations flag represents. Given that most folks waving the flag previously had no concept of how to be an American, I question how many flags there will be when this fad passes. Perhaps when it does I will re-display my flag.

[ATTICUS]

"I think every athlete, as he checks in, should be issued a 12-pack of Coors, a bag of Big Macs, an American flag, and a handgun."


That's so wrong. This is an international event....so make it a 12 of Bass Ale....and the handgun should be an Italian Beretta.

[Mark Jones]

I wouldn't be caught dead going to the Olympics anyhow. First--why on earth would I want to subject myself to god knows how many hours in Gulag Amerika (the airports these days) in order to "enjoy" Gulag Internationale in Salt Lake City? I remember seeing messages on the net a couple of years ago by people outraged over the plans to walk all over the CCW holders' rights in Utah when the Olympics were on. The "security" rules they intended to enforce blatantly violated the laws.

I've heard nothing for a long while now, which makes me suspect that that battle was a lost cause. And that was _before_ September 11th. God only knows how many thousands of low grade morons with security badges and an attitude will be making life hell for the athletes and spectators.

[Quartus]

Been in China for two months, just got back to the real world, so I havn't been following the CCW battle with Mitt and his minions, but IIRC it hasn't all gone the way Mitt wants. Maybe some other Utah TFLers can update us.

But the Olys are not all going the way they want in general. When people found that they would have ot walk a mile and sometimes more for a lot of events, ticket sales went waaay down.

Serves 'em right.



NavyJoe, my sentiments exactly. I fear blind patriotism.

[Tamara]

...stopped their wars and set aside their city-state rivalries for the Olympic truce.

We are far too civilized to do that these days.

[Aion]

Tam:

Patriotism doesn't necessarily have to equate to rivalry in the sense you're referencing, does it?

I'm no knee-jerk flag waver, but seems to me it's possible to be proud of your country and fellow citizens without that meaning "our country's red hot, your place ain't doodley-squat..."

- Aion

[Mark D]

Hmmm... When our P-3 crew was held hostage in china last year, I didn't see anyone else in my county flying a flag, or, a yellow ribbon. I do remember a bunch of funny stares though.

If folks are genuinely being patriotic, great, but if they're joining the "Our country is like, way cooler than yours." fad... I would rather have legitimate patriots greet our guests, than a bunch of trendy flag wavers.

[glock glockler]

Wow Tamara, you must have better cable channels than I do, I haven't seen people impaled by hoplite spears in the Oylmpics lately.

I want the violent cable stations. Bring back Gladiators!

[OF]

LOL Mike! That is too funny.

- Gabe

[AK103K]

Speaking of patriotism & gladiators, I saw this on another board...


"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in
order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for
patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both
emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.
And when the drums of war have reached a fever
pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has
closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the
rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused
with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of
their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I
know? For this is what I have done. And I am
Caesar." -- Julius Caesar


Sound familiar?

[fmjcafe]

So far in the run-up to these games coverage has concentrated almost exclusively on the home competitors, raising fears of a repeat of the LA and Atlanta games when events with little home interest were rarely shown on US television.

Whats so strange about Americans wanting to take a pass on watching the Nigerian curling team in action?

[Indy_SIG]

An update: The IOC and SLC officials have reached an agreement that will allow the opening ceremony representatives from the U.S. to carry the U.S. flag that was found in the ruins of the WTC.

As for their statement....I somewhat agree with it. The games are supposed to be an event that transcends nations and borders. There have been natural and manmade disasters around the world in the last 4 years that have claimed thousands of lives in other countries. Will they be equally highlighted during the games? The IOC has a valid point. The games are not a U.S. sponsored event (at least in theory), and are nation neutral. The fact that they are being held in the U.S. is irrelevant. The ground is considered neutral for the games.

If the U.S. wants to show support for their country during the opening ceremonies, so be it. But, there shouldn't be a games' sponsored event that marks the 9/11 tragedy in any way. It's not appropriate. Nor more so than it would be to mark the tragedies in Kenya, Malaysia, India, Turkey, etc. that have occurred recently, some claiming more lives than were lost on 9/11. The games are no more about the U.S. than any other country (again, in theory).

[Nanaimo Barr]

why are millions of our taxpayer dollars being spent on unimportant things like International Sporting events??

wasn't the 45 Million we gave to the Taliban last year enough???

I can think of a heck of a lot of places and things that that money can be MUCH better spent on rather than paying for the security and infrustructure so some whiney skater can get her pic on a wheaties box or some snowboard bozo with an attatude can sell crappy cellular service....

(remember. only one Olympic game ever MADE money for the host)

if the IOC wants to call the shots, let THEM pay for EVERYTHING, they certanly got enough money in bribes

[yankytrash]

Do y'all hear yourselves?

#1 -
You don't like these newly-formed patriots? What's wrong with a little recruitment? Hey- if it takes a tragedy to make some new Americans, I'll take it- any way I can get it. Maybe they'll start voting now, now that they remember they are Americans.

You know somethin? I wasn't an American until a small-town sheriff's office seized a bunch of guns that were mine, then got the ATF involved. When I had to battle for those guns, I became an American - I studied and re-studied the Bill of Rights, past US Supreme Court cases, the ATF's long exhaustive list of rules and regulations, the NFA, the GCA, and just about every resource you ever heard of on the subjects of search, seizure, forfeiture, guns, and gun rights.

It wasn't until then then that I would say I turned into a "real" American. Do I have a right, now, to be an American, even though my patriotism was, let's say, less than stellar, in the past?

You're dang right I do; just the same as all the rest of the American people get to become Americans again in the face of tragedy.

It's stuff like the WTC attack that brings us together. We all have that right - to have our eyes opened every once in awhile.
The Revolutionary War cost approximately 4400 Americans to make some new Americans.
The Civil War cost approximately 620,000 Americans to make some new Americans.
WWI cost approximately 115,000 Americans to make some new Americans.
WWII cost approximately 300,000 Americans to make some new Americans.
3000 to 4000 people lost at the WTC attack is a relatively smaller price to pay, if that's what it takes. Death sells, unfortunately.

#2 -
At risk of sounding patriotic , the WTC flag should be flown at the Games, just the same as patriotism should be displayed proudly at the Games.

What happened on Sept 11th happened to the world. We all know that. America is the undisputed world power, and many nations look to us and depend on us for guidance and deliverance.

When a low-life group like the Al qaeta, or their like, attempts to undermine our stance in the world, and try to show our supposed weaknesses, America's, and the world's, response has to be strong. Not only in action of military deployment, but in a showing of national and world unity that can only be brought on by the United States. No other country in the world can draw such an international brotherhood.

Through a strong show of our patriotism at the Games, we can join hands with the world to show that our stance has not been broken. Through that stance, other nations' citizens see our undaunted patriotism, and they can remember the patriotism they have for their own country; and that is the strength they need to help us fight terrorism where ever it may lie.

It will only be through their own patriotism where we will get help to fight this new war old Bushy got us into, and it is only with help from other countries that this new war will ever end.

[/rant]

So, you say we need less Americans and less patriotism, and that you're sick of the sabre rattling? Just like I thought would happen, 'Americans' will eventually grow tired of showing patriotism in the wake of Sept 11th, and we will all go back to the business of letting America slip out of our hands.
Thanks for makin me right, but no thanks.

[Quartus]

(remember. only one Olympic game ever MADE money for the host)

Only if you don't count the tax money spent on infrastructure.


I wouldn't mind the Olympics if it were really what it pretends to be.

[Elizabeth Petersen]

CaptainHoek, I say all us Utah TFLers should bug out of here for duration of the Olympics. Find us somewhere warm, hospitable, and gun friendly...

Hmm. How about Texas?

Maybe Dennis can put us all up. Or LawDog.

Oh, what a party that would be.