When wouldn't you use a shotgun?

**Erick Gelhaus** · December 1, 1998, 03:40 PM

Before the flaming arrows start flying, let me say "I love my shotgun!"

What I'd like to discuss though, is when, given the pro's / con's would one be best served with the shotgun and when one would be better off with a different type of weapon?

Check 6,
Erick

fal308 · December 2, 1998, 12:26 PM

I wouldn't use a shotgun if there was something on other side of what I was aiming at that I didn't want hit. Especially as the distance grows. Too much chance of collateral pellet damage. Though the way around that is movement of myself to take the "backstop" out of the line of fire, if possible. Another reason I can think of is the shotgun's size. If working in cramped quarters, the length of the shotgun (or any long arm) can be a hinderance (CQC or heavy brush hunting).

John · December 2, 1998, 12:27 PM

Well to state the obivious that 600meter sniper type shot is much eaiser with a 30.06
8)

Mid-knight · August 4, 2005, 06:47 PM

I know this is an antique thread, but we were just talking about this last night.... Anything under 100yd is fair game for the shottie, over that and we pick 'em off with the 30.06s or 308s, and sidearms for those occasions when tight quarters and/or a free hand is called for, like slapping on the cuffs. I'd rather use my shottie to clear a building, though, than a pistol, but once you've got the BG down on the ground, it's far more efficient to cover them with the pistol.

mathman · August 4, 2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Well to state the obivious that 600meter sniper type shot is much eaiser with a 30.06

yep...and it's even easier with a .308

Nimitz87 · August 4, 2005, 07:46 PM

fal what would you use?....a rifle caliber or any pistol caliber will nearly certainily penertrate more than buck shot...

Chad

fal308 · August 5, 2005, 07:41 AM

It's not the penetration that would concern me but the pellet count. Some of my HD shotguns have a rather wide spread, especially the one with the duckbill. With a centerfire cartridge, one is only concerned with one projectile going downrange whereas with a shotgun, several pellets are travelling downrange with each shot.
Though under ideal circumstances I would use a shotgun as that is my favorite tool for when things go bump in the night!

OBIWAN · August 5, 2005, 08:48 AM

I just know this is gonna be painful to watch...but.....

I personally think...that for defensive purposes....

and even offensive purposes....except for special purpose rounds

A good carbine makes shotguns redundant

In all regards

mathman · August 5, 2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

I just know this is gonna be painful to watch...but.....

I personally think...that for defensive purposes....

and even offensive purposes....except for special purpose rounds

A good carbine makes shotguns redundant

In all regards

I think that this is true except for when you are inside a building due to overpenetration of rifle/pistol rounds. A shotgun loaded with #1 Buck or #4 Buck is better for this purpose...IMHO.

Edward429451 · August 5, 2005, 11:00 AM

I'm kinda with obiwan & mathman.

I only use SG's for birds/skeet or inside the house for SD. If I have to step outside the house, gimme a carbine. Overpenetration with rifle rounds is a small concern and largely a non issue I think, I mean, get real...if for whatever reason you're moved to defense and must go outside on some rare occassion (prolly never) then you may need the penetration/range. Shot placement would be the concern here and not the overpenetration that the lefty's spout. Priorities.

Agree that a good carbine makes SG's redundant.

YMMV.

**Denny Hansen** · August 5, 2005, 06:18 PM

Pistol anytime when in confined areas; very small room, checking cupboards, old refrigertors etc. where rention with a long arm may become a problem. May also transition to the pistol if I have to use a phone while covering down on a subject. The shotgun gets very heavy with one hand (just a couple of reasons why I have a sling on all my long guns).

Rifle obviously for longer ranges or when lack of ammo may be a problem.

But Erick, it seems you have the best of both worlds with your M4/M203

As always, thank you for your service, Brother. I have several of your "Report From The Front" articles scheduled for S.W.A.T.

Denny

SeekHer · August 6, 2005, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Midnight.......Anything under 100yd is fair game for the shottie

Don't you mean 100 ft (33 yds 30 M).
If you hit anyone let alone anything at 100 yds with a pellet, that is the unluckiest person on the face of the earth, you're chance of hitting it with a slug is marginal...even hitting it with a handgun isn't that good.

Think about it, it doesn't have a long enough barrel to impart velocity, nor rifling for stabilization.

A shotgun is a short range o/d fensive weapon.

This isn't quite so for the purpose built hunting shotgun with rifled barrel.

3 weelin geezer · August 6, 2005, 01:43 AM

when I want a gun that shoots real fast just to burn through a brick of ammo since I don't have an auto just yet due to lack of financial sources.

Rangefinder · August 6, 2005, 02:06 AM

Quote:
Well to state the obivious that 600meter sniper type shot is much eaiser with a 30.06

yep...and it's even easier with a .308 /Quote

Actually, I would disagree. The 06 and the 308 use the same bullet, but the 06 has a little more 'oomf' behind it. Sorry, couldn't resist---and besides, my 7mm will out-do both, hands down.

OK, back on topic... When NOT to use a shotgun... Tactic speaking, at over 30 yds with 00Buck or smaller (which essentually covers everything but a slug). For game, shotguns are bird guns mostly. For tactical, they're Close-Quarters ONLY.

mathman · August 6, 2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Actually, I would disagree. The 06 and the 308 use the same bullet, but the 06 has a little more 'oomf' behind it. Sorry, couldn't resist---and besides, my 7mm will out-do both, hands down.

Oh...I'm just playin'...I'm just a .308 guy.

Rangefinder · August 6, 2005, 12:04 PM

But of course, mathman! LOL I just couldn't fight the overpowering urge to jump in on it, being a 7mm guy...

Nnobby45 · August 6, 2005, 05:00 PM

Wise people don't take knives to pistol fights nor shotguns to rifle fights. Shotguns are at their best at close range loaded with buckshot, even though slugs extend the range to short range rifle status--if you have proper sights.

OneInchGroup · August 10, 2005, 05:24 PM

Nnobby45 has it right, pretty much. Probably the folks that have the most practice in weapon selection are military, and they actually write some fairly involved specifications to make sure they get it right.
DOD theory, generally, seems to be bayonets for hand to hand, pistols for 10 feet to 25 yards, shotguns for trench and close quarters combat roughly 10 yards to 75 yards, rifles from 75 to 300 yards, specialty rifles (Read Barrett .50 BMG) 150 to 600 yards, then crew-served weapons for any other applications
Like the man says, never bring a knife to a gunfight, a shotgun to a sniper party, or a rifle to a tank battle.
Of course, with scopes and sabot slugs, shotguns can nowadays reach out and touch someone standing 150 yards away pretty effectively, and that .730 size slug can make a bigger impression than most any rifle bullet.

Death from Afar · August 10, 2005, 05:49 PM

They are also good as suppression weapons in jungle warfare- give the lead scout a shotgun, ideal as a grab when you get out of the vehicle weapon, but also where there is a real risk of collatral damage. In one part of the world I was in I noted the guys guarding the rotary wings had shotguns as they are fragile, and it was close to a village full of non-combatents. There were lots of kids around and a 5.56mm created a severe risk of non-combatent casualties, which no one wants.

Twycross · August 11, 2005, 01:29 AM

I would not use a shotgun for
- anything beyond 30 yards with shot, (rifle or slugs/sabots)
- anything in very close quarters (pistol),
- anything requiring extreme precision beyond 50 yards (rifle).

dhphillips · August 11, 2005, 02:28 AM

Generally, if it doesn't have feathers it aint seeing the shotgun.

Self defense - prefer handguns
Deer and larger game - .30-06
Rabbit and similar sized game - .22

August 5, 2005, 11:00 AM	#10
Edward429451 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 5,850	I'm kinda with obiwan & mathman. I only use SG's for birds/skeet or inside the house for SD. If I have to step outside the house, gimme a carbine. Overpenetration with rifle rounds is a small concern and largely a non issue I think, I mean, get real...if for whatever reason you're moved to defense and must go outside on some rare occassion (prolly never) then you may need the penetration/range. Shot placement would be the concern here and not the overpenetration that the lefty's spout. Priorities. Agree that a good carbine makes SG's redundant. YMMV. __________________ "Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark" Lazarus Long "Understand that the enemy is not the enemy in his own eyes ;this may offer you an opportunity to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate, and quickly." Lazarus Long

August 6, 2005, 02:06 AM	#14
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 1,230	Quote: Well to state the obivious that 600meter sniper type shot is much eaiser with a 30.06 yep...and it's even easier with a .308 /Quote Actually, I would disagree. The 06 and the 308 use the same bullet, but the 06 has a little more 'oomf' behind it. Sorry, couldn't resist---and besides, my 7mm will out-do both, hands down. OK, back on topic... When NOT to use a shotgun... Tactic speaking, at over 30 yds with 00Buck or smaller (which essentually covers everything but a slug). For game, shotguns are bird guns mostly. For tactical, they're Close-Quarters ONLY. __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

August 6, 2005, 12:04 PM	#16
Rangefinder Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 1,230	But of course, mathman! LOL I just couldn't fight the overpowering urge to jump in on it, being a 7mm guy... __________________ "Why is is called Common Sense when it seems so few actually possess it?" Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.

August 10, 2005, 05:24 PM	#18
OneInchGroup Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2005 Location: People's Republic of Maryland Posts: 137	When Not To Use a Shotgun Nnobby45 has it right, pretty much. Probably the folks that have the most practice in weapon selection are military, and they actually write some fairly involved specifications to make sure they get it right. DOD theory, generally, seems to be bayonets for hand to hand, pistols for 10 feet to 25 yards, shotguns for trench and close quarters combat roughly 10 yards to 75 yards, rifles from 75 to 300 yards, specialty rifles (Read Barrett .50 BMG) 150 to 600 yards, then crew-served weapons for any other applications Like the man says, never bring a knife to a gunfight, a shotgun to a sniper party, or a rifle to a tank battle. Of course, with scopes and sabot slugs, shotguns can nowadays reach out and touch someone standing 150 yards away pretty effectively, and that .730 size slug can make a bigger impression than most any rifle bullet.

August 10, 2005, 05:49 PM	#19
Death from Afar Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Living the dream in Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 1,473	They are also good as suppression weapons in jungle warfare- give the lead scout a shotgun, ideal as a grab when you get out of the vehicle weapon, but also where there is a real risk of collatral damage. In one part of the world I was in I noted the guys guarding the rotary wings had shotguns as they are fragile, and it was close to a village full of non-combatents. There were lots of kids around and a 5.56mm created a severe risk of non-combatent casualties, which no one wants. __________________ Currently...DPMS AR15, Ruger 10/22 Mag in 17HMR; Remington 870 P 12 Gauge; SKB .410, Benelli M2 12 Gauge, Glock 17, Ruger mark2 + mountains of .303's! "Beware of the Man with one gun...he probably isnt into guns enough to be safe with it".

December 1, 1998, 03:40 PM	#1
Erick Gelhaus Staff Join Date: October 28, 1998 Location: Northern CA Posts: 2,754	Before the flaming arrows start flying, let me say "I love my shotgun!" What I'd like to discuss though, is when, given the pro's / con's would one be best served with the shotgun and when one would be better off with a different type of weapon? Check 6, Erick

December 2, 1998, 12:26 PM	#2
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,969	I wouldn't use a shotgun if there was something on other side of what I was aiming at that I didn't want hit. Especially as the distance grows. Too much chance of collateral pellet damage. Though the way around that is movement of myself to take the "backstop" out of the line of fire, if possible. Another reason I can think of is the shotgun's size. If working in cramped quarters, the length of the shotgun (or any long arm) can be a hinderance (CQC or heavy brush hunting).

December 2, 1998, 12:27 PM	#3
John Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: Virginia Posts: 38	Well to state the obivious that 600meter sniper type shot is much eaiser with a 30.06 8)

August 4, 2005, 06:47 PM	#4
Mid-knight Junior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Posts: 4	Procedure priority I know this is an antique thread, but we were just talking about this last night.... Anything under 100yd is fair game for the shottie, over that and we pick 'em off with the 30.06s or 308s, and sidearms for those occasions when tight quarters and/or a free hand is called for, like slapping on the cuffs. I'd rather use my shottie to clear a building, though, than a pistol, but once you've got the BG down on the ground, it's far more efficient to cover them with the pistol.

August 5, 2005, 07:41 AM	#7
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,969	It's not the penetration that would concern me but the pellet count. Some of my HD shotguns have a rather wide spread, especially the one with the duckbill. With a centerfire cartridge, one is only concerned with one projectile going downrange whereas with a shotgun, several pellets are travelling downrange with each shot. Though under ideal circumstances I would use a shotgun as that is my favorite tool for when things go bump in the night!

August 5, 2005, 08:48 AM	#8
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,342	I just know this is gonna be painful to watch...but..... I personally think...that for defensive purposes.... and even offensive purposes....except for special purpose rounds A good carbine makes shotguns redundant In all regards

August 6, 2005, 01:43 AM	#13
3 weelin geezer Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2004 Posts: 439	when I want a gun that shoots real fast just to burn through a brick of ammo since I don't have an auto just yet due to lack of financial sources.

August 6, 2005, 05:00 PM	#17
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 1,638	Wise people don't take knives to pistol fights nor shotguns to rifle fights. Shotguns are at their best at close range loaded with buckshot, even though slugs extend the range to short range rifle status--if you have proper sights.

August 11, 2005, 01:29 AM	#20
Twycross Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: FT Bragg, NC Posts: 1,172	I would not use a shotgun for - anything beyond 30 yards with shot, (rifle or slugs/sabots) - anything in very close quarters (pistol), - anything requiring extreme precision beyond 50 yards (rifle). __________________ The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming." - Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.)

August 11, 2005, 02:28 AM	#21
dhphillips Member Join Date: August 7, 2005 Posts: 20	Generally, if it doesn't have feathers it aint seeing the shotgun. Self defense - prefer handguns Deer and larger game - .30-06 Rabbit and similar sized game - .22