concealed carry ammo for defense

[warpig883]

I have recently decided to start carrying my trusty colt .45acp for personal protection. I have been told to use everything from birdshot to hollow points.

I am not trying to kill a bad guy, (rogue dirty cops,thieves,muggers) even though they deserve it, only to disable him.

I would think that a hollowpoint would be to destructive and the .45 shotshell not enough. Therefore I have come to the conclusion that hardball amoo would be best.

What do you guys think?

[Kevinch]

I think I'm a goin' fishin'.........................

[Tall Man]

Greetings and salutations, Mr. Pig. Welcome to the TFL family.

May I suggest the following? In aggregate, these activities may serve to answer the question (at it's most macro level) that you posed in this thread's opening post.

1. Obtain and read a copy of Andrew Branca's "The Law of Self Defense: A Guide for the Armed Citizen". Amazon has it.
2. Endeavor to enroll in the NRA Basic Handgun course, should one be locally available to you.
3. Use TFL's 'Search' function to locate threads that address the facets of self defense. Read them, reread them, and digest them.

Post the results of your efforts, should you choose to pursue them. Good luck to you.

Tall Man

[warpig883]

Thank you very much Tall Man

Kevinch----- I was fishin'

[C.R.Sam]

[Kevinch]

Good sense of humor, Mr War...er pig...er...883 (got to be a Sporty, right?)...

If you really are interested in self defense shooting scenarios, the advice to read up is good advice. I might also add "IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME" by Ayoob as a good source of info on the subject.

Good Luck to you.....

[sm]

Well kinda new to this forum, but my .02

reliablity is # 1
Idea is to stop an Imediate Action--rules out birdshot

hardball or jhp ? Gun must ALWAYS feed. Does your gun feed jhp? Will it feed hardball? If not make adjustments so your gun works everytime with chosen load, and test thoroughly before you carry that load.

Doing a search you will get various opinions and recommendations...you must have confidence... its your life or that of a loved one.

There is a place for hardball, though it can penetrate depending on source greater than 20", what conditions will you be carrying? Jhp, again depends on applications, but test for yourself because some Jhp's may "clog" up and act like hardball. generally jhp will penetrate 9" and greater. Considering the BG may be wearing a coat and you can see where penetration is a factor.

Shot placement is most important, but the load , regardless must penetrate vitals to do its job. What good is a load that only penetrates a couple of inches-especially poorly placed.

Others can contribute better than I , Just my .02


Another good read is Tom Given's Fighting Smarter

[croyance]

What re1973 said.

In addition, I do not carry hollowpoints with the explicit intention to kill, and resent the implication that is the reason I do so.
Handguns by their nature are limited in power. The so called "one stop shot" includes shots that simply stops or immobilizes an attacker. If the psychological effect of hearing the shot stops the attack, the job is done.
Hollowpoints impart physical shock much better than hardball. This makes it more likely to bring about the pain reaction drops the attacker.

About 85% of gunshot wounds are survivable.

If a criminal forces me to defend myself or my family, the consequences are really not my fault. I say this knowing that I will feel very bad about the whole situation if the attacker dies. I will not try to avoid guilt feelings by lessening my own chances of survival. That is all hollowpoints are, a tool to help me survive.

[OF]

Assuming you are not trolling, you bring up waaaaaay to many subjects to get a simple answer. Take an NRA Personal Protection class or something similar. Ammo choice should be way down on the list of priorities at this point.

- Gabe

[Erik]

Use premium hollow points which you've proven to be accurate and reliable out of your pistol.

[1goodshot]

If I pull my concealed weapon point it at someone and pull the trigger, I'm tring to KILL them. I wont pull it for any other purpose. Use gold dots no bird shot

[Kevinch]

Assuming you are not trolling....

GRD, that's what I kinda suspected - but TALL MAN quickly slapped my keyboard fingers with one on those old wooden pointers with the black plastic tip.

That brings up an interesting question: now that most everyone uses laser pointers, what can a teacher use to slap your fingers with now?? Do they sill use wooden yard sticks??

[stans]

Teachers are not allowed to slap little fingers, hands, or fannys. They must verbally encourage the child to cease his or her errant behavior at their earliest convenience.

[GLOCKT]

For the Glock-27 it's Golden Sabre's 165 JHP.

[Vanguard.45]

You wrote "If I pull my concealed weapon point it at someone and pull the trigger, I'm tring to KILL them. I won't pull it for any other purpose."


While the above statement may have been written in a momentary need to assert one's machismo, I would advise against posting such a statement in case you do have the unfortunate circumstance to utilize any means of self-protection. Were that to occur and the inevitable criminal/civil proceedings followed, a competent attorney would likely look into such writings an use it to illustrate to an all-too-propagandized jury of your peers how you were reckless in your intent to act as judge, jury, and executioner.

A responsible bearer of a firearm does not seek to kill or wound anyone, only to preserve life by ending immediate threats to the physical well being of themselves or others. I have worked as a local police officer and am now a federal agent who is authorized to carry nationwide. I know of what I speak.

Pay attention to what you are writing. I write this because I care.

[Tom2]

I have chosen the Winchester 230gr. JHP for my full sized gun. It has a gapeing hole in the front but feeds fine as the gun was throated at the factory, understanding the need to use this ammo in modern times. I use it also cause I can practice with the overpenetrative ball ammo and get the same appx. ballistic performance in handling and sighting. Don't know how well this load would work at the reduced velocity of a short barrel as far as expansion. Maybe something exotic like Glasers might be good for a small carry gun with limited mag capacity. But it would sure be expensive to test them in your gun. The Win. JHP costs me 5$ more than the equal amount of Win. ball (50rds)

[guntotin_fool]

i carry either speer gold dots 180's in my 96 beretta,

gold dot 124+p in SW6903,

in all my 45's rem 230 gr Golde sabres,

Why?
First: Off in the guns mentioned that ammo has zero defects, no ftf, no fte, no ftrb.
Second: All of them have good records of one shot stops and terminal performance.
Third: The gold dots have a little less muzzle flash.
Forth:i shoot GS in the 45's because i can get them bulk for reloading and they cost less to shoot for practice i carry factory only on the street

[Bullrock]

I agree with Vanguard.45 When I was a law enforcement Officer in the early 60's I was trained at the Police Academy to never pull your sidearm unless you intend to use it, and if you do pull it, shoot to kill! (whatever that meant back then)

Times change, society has changed and I have changed, yet I don't know anyone who could actually predict what they would do during a life threatening confrontation. After all of the training, if you make a mistake, then there by the grace of God go I.

I still choose to carry.

[dairycreek]

Therefore I have come to the conclusion that hardball amoo would be best.

Hardball is what the 45 ACP was designed to shoot. It is accurate and reliable, and has been doing the job of stopping bad guys for a long, long time. Good choice for CCW! Good shooting

[Hollowpnt]

Kudos for Vangaurd's wisdom, warrants in a shooting, even in self defense, are common. This includes computer hard drives. In this age of Homeland Socialis..er Security, websites like these are often scanned as well.
My Grandfather often said: "Never say anything that might come back to haunt you."
In this age of internet conversation the hardrive is the perfect 'ghost' for an eager DA and such a haunting.
Sorry for the tech pun couldn't resist.

[SatCong]

Generally, I am of the notion that I want a good degree of penetration.
Depending on the weapon carried, here's what I usually load into the mag or cylinder:
BUG=380 bersa -95gr. ball ammo
Sigpro 2340 -185 gr. jfp
Kimber UltraII 185 rnhb (hollowbase, ball)
Taurus 445 -44spl. 2" barrel -85gr. frangible (loud and blasty,
very hi velocity) or 210 gr. silvertips.
Nothing here is carved in stone.
SatCong

[DFS]

My suggestion is you not carry a gun if your only intent is to disable someone. If you have the right to shoot in self-defense you have the right to take that persons life. So with that said you must always assume that you will take someone life when you shoot them. Find ammo that will function in your weapon, forget bird-shot, 230 ball is just fine.

[mjf1911]

I'm with the 230 gr hp crowd, just make sure whatever you load it with works well with the weapon.

BTW, if I have to fire in self defense I'm shooting to stop a threat.

Good luck!

[Ozzieman]

I am lucky that I have never had to shoot any one, Have pulled a gun on a human (Questionable) twice.
BUT
If another person if threating your life, which means you have the right to protect your own and you only shoot to wound then get your things in order.
It means that he had a gun or knife, and will probably shoot you back.
That means you are dead, and they can say nice things about you at your furneral.
Please dont think that I am making fun of you, I am trying to make a point, if you at some time need to shoot some one, shoot them.
Its better to go home to your loved ones with a death on your hands, a leagle death, than to have a poiece man arive to your house with some very bad news.
I have carried guns for over 25 years now and have never wanted to shoot any one, never not once. But if my life is ever threatened I have a short saying that a great man that once rode the trains with Harry Truman told me.
"TWO in the chest and if you have time one in the head"

[rkc]

not a thing wrong with .45 hardball. I have saved my life with the old ball round. Trust it completely