What is the most powerful rifle cartridge?

nsf003 · February 19, 2002, 05:12 PM

What is the most powerful rifle cartridge?

I've heard 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG

nsf003

Steve Smith · February 19, 2002, 05:30 PM

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

WilderBill · February 19, 2002, 05:38 PM

I suppose that technically that would be whatever is the largest navel gun to use a cartridge instead of a shell and powder bags.
If it were just the most powerful rifle I would say the 16" guns on battleships...sure the Japanese had 18" guns, but they aren't even around in a museum now.

**Mike Irwin** · February 19, 2002, 05:39 PM

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I answered that here a couple of weeks ago...

Quote:

"This reminds me of the middle ages when there was a great debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin."

2,273

That number was determined by a secret meeting of the heads of all the world's great Christian faiths, held 2 years ago at the Ponderosa Steak House in York, Pennsylvania.

I stopped by for dinner. Imagine my shock and surprise when I turned around at the salad bar and nearly ran over the Metropolitan of Moscow in the salad bar line.

Even worse was that the Pope got ahead of me in the desert bar line and grabbed the last two pieces of peach cobbler. When I mentioned that sharing would be the Christian thing to do, he looked at me like I was nuts, and then one of his Swiss guard bonked me from behind with his poleax.

**Mike Irwin** · February 19, 2002, 05:40 PM

Rifle can be a kind of open-ended definition.

Some of the WW II era antitank rifles developled some SERIOUS energy levels.

Johnny Guest · February 19, 2002, 06:14 PM

- - -but the question is an ineresting one.

nsf003- - - Would it be within the spirit of your original query to limit this to either over-the-counter-in-a-sporting-goods-store, or perhaps, available-without-special-licenses/tax-stamps?

If this were the case, contenders would include .50 BMG (Yes, there are commercial loads available)
or .700 Nitro Express - - -Was this ever an over-the-counter item? Is it currently available, other than as a collectors' item? At a hundred bucks a pop, when introduced, I bet they didn't sell many!
Or something like the .378 Lapua? I don't have tables at hand.

Johnny

PS--MIKE--Are those the standard size angels, or the compact version?
JPG

Art Eatman · February 19, 2002, 06:43 PM

Seems to me if you consider practical shoulder-fired rifles, the .50BMG is out. Further, IMO, the various one-offs are interesting but not really in the game.

Most anybody can pick up a phone and get a .460 Weatherby; it's as near as your VISA card.

Art

hksigwalther · February 19, 2002, 06:54 PM

HAH! I call BS! There is no Ponderosa in York! HAH!

C.R.Sam · February 19, 2002, 07:23 PM

How many pins in the hair of an angel ?

Powerful.......
Velocity ?
Muzzel energy ?
Energy remaining at 1,000 yds ?
Bullet weight ?
Bullet diameter ?
etc ?

Sam

Hemicuda · February 19, 2002, 07:38 PM

shoulder fired rifle? I do believe there is a .700 Nitro Express double Rifle out there in the world...

I have SHOT a .500 Nitro, and seen a .600 Nitro...

Maybe Sam or someone has the specs on the Nitro guns...

Commander Fan · February 19, 2002, 07:40 PM

The .50 BMG is a baby. There are several shoulder fired 20mm & 25mm bores. The 25mm versions are 15 times more powerfull than the little .50 BMG. They also penetrate 4 times more steel.

Although I can't find the weight of the 25mm OCSW, the smaller 25mm Solothurn weighs in at 120lbs.

These look like GIAN bolt actions. There is a full article in the 2001 Special Weapons for Miltary & Law Enforcement.

I'll try and get the article read and supply more information.

bernie · February 19, 2002, 07:41 PM

Without a doubt, it has to be the .22 short.

striderteen · February 19, 2002, 07:53 PM

The most powerful rifle known to me is the Type 94 18.1"/45-caliber naval gun fitted to the battleships Yamato and Musashi.

Muzzle velocity is 2,559 fps, with a 1,460 kg APC Type 91 factory load. I do not believe +P or +P+ loads are available in this caliber.

Ewok_Guy · February 19, 2002, 07:55 PM

.40 S&W!

{edited:{ oops wrong thread. ]

Glamdring · February 19, 2002, 08:51 PM

What do you mean when you say "shoulder fired"? To me that means that you can fire it offhand.

The Soviet 14.5 is well beyond the 50bmg and IIRC was used in anti tank rifles.

The 50 bmg was/is available in the Rhino was slightly shorter in OAL than the the Steyr Scout and went about 16lbs which is in the same wt range as many sniper rifles or old matchlocks used in combat.

C.R.Sam · February 19, 2002, 09:01 PM

.500 Nitro Express....ME 5850
.600 Nitro Express.....ME 6850
.460 Weatherby Mag..ME 8245

Nuttin on .700

Sam

Fatelvis · February 19, 2002, 09:23 PM

Where the hell was the angel/pin thing going?

**JohnKSa** · February 19, 2002, 10:14 PM

Well, if by rifle you mean a fairly conventional looking shoulder-fired weapon weighing under 15 lbs, I believe that the .577 Tyrannosaur takes the cake.

Over 11,000fpe at the muzzle.

Absolutely vicious recoil seems to virtually eliminate the chance at a follow up shot--aim carefully.

Azrael256 · February 19, 2002, 11:21 PM

the only problem with 11,000 fpe is that it'll be brontosaurus for breakfast, brontosaurus for lunch, brontosaurus for dinner, brontosaurus for breakfast, bronto.... oh you get the idea.

Art Eatman · February 19, 2002, 11:43 PM

JohnKSa, there's a reason I said practical! Well, I guess a .460 Weatherby is practical.

Glamdring, I don' wanna shoot a .460 any other way than offhand. The very idea of benchresting sumpn like that is, er, "off-putting". And just flat-out forget prone position.

What's all this about pin-headed angels? Fatelvis, I'd say it was headed down. Far enough down that the angels would become little demons!

, Art

Steve Smith · February 20, 2002, 10:06 AM

Fatelvis, what I meant to do was show that it was an open ended question. The answer is infinite...unless the Pope is getting two helpings of peach cobbler.

goosegunner · February 20, 2002, 10:13 AM

Shoulder fired rifle, would that include rpg's like Carl Gustaf 84mm?

Johnny Guest · February 20, 2002, 10:49 AM

Never examined one, but I don't believe the Carl Gustaf 84mm RPG has a rifled tube. "Course, I could be wrong. Left my copy of Jane's Cherished Destructive Devices home this morning.

Best,
Johnny

Cain R · February 20, 2002, 11:04 AM

R.B. Rodda 4 bore

Chad Young · February 20, 2002, 11:17 AM

The most powerful rifle cartridge in the world is the one in the gun that is pointed at you at the time the question is asked.

February 19, 2002, 05:12 PM	#1
nsf003 Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2002 Location: South Central PA Posts: 574	What is the most powerful rifle cartridge? What is the most powerful rifle cartridge? I've heard 460 Weatherby and 50 BMG nsf003 __________________ Christian, American, Heterosexual, Pro-gun Conservative. Any Questions? Molon Labe! Lets Roll!

February 19, 2002, 05:30 PM	#2
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

February 19, 2002, 05:38 PM	#3
WilderBill Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 610	I suppose that technically that would be whatever is the largest navel gun to use a cartridge instead of a shell and powder bags. If it were just the most powerful rifle I would say the 16" guns on battleships...sure the Japanese had 18" guns, but they aren't even around in a museum now. __________________ I reserve the right to keep AND arm bears. Support those who support us.

February 19, 2002, 05:40 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Rifle can be a kind of open-ended definition. Some of the WW II era antitank rifles developled some SERIOUS energy levels. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 19, 2002, 06:14 PM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Agree with Mike Irwin about open-ended question - - - - - -but the question is an ineresting one. nsf003- - - Would it be within the spirit of your original query to limit this to either over-the-counter-in-a-sporting-goods-store, or perhaps, available-without-special-licenses/tax-stamps? If this were the case, contenders would include .50 BMG (Yes, there are commercial loads available) or .700 Nitro Express - - -Was this ever an over-the-counter item? Is it currently available, other than as a collectors' item? At a hundred bucks a pop, when introduced, I bet they didn't sell many! Or something like the .378 Lapua? I don't have tables at hand. Johnny PS--MIKE--Are those the standard size angels, or the compact version? JPG

February 19, 2002, 06:43 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Seems to me if you consider practical shoulder-fired rifles, the .50BMG is out. Further, IMO, the various one-offs are interesting but not really in the game. Most anybody can pick up a phone and get a .460 Weatherby; it's as near as your VISA card. Art

February 19, 2002, 06:54 PM	#8
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	HAH! HAH! I call BS! There is no Ponderosa in York! HAH! __________________ - Ron V.

February 19, 2002, 07:23 PM	#9
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	How many pins in the hair of an angel ? Powerful....... Velocity ? Muzzel energy ? Energy remaining at 1,000 yds ? Bullet weight ? Bullet diameter ? etc ? Sam

February 19, 2002, 07:38 PM	#10
Hemicuda Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,757	shoulder fired rifle? I do believe there is a .700 Nitro Express double Rifle out there in the world... I have SHOT a .500 Nitro, and seen a .600 Nitro... Maybe Sam or someone has the specs on the Nitro guns... __________________ Hemi. gun and car collector. Rare cars, and rarer guns.

February 19, 2002, 07:40 PM	#11
Commander Fan Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 234	The .50 BMG is a baby. There are several shoulder fired 20mm & 25mm bores. The 25mm versions are 15 times more powerfull than the little .50 BMG. They also penetrate 4 times more steel. Although I can't find the weight of the 25mm OCSW, the smaller 25mm Solothurn weighs in at 120lbs. These look like GIAN bolt actions. There is a full article in the 2001 Special Weapons for Miltary & Law Enforcement. I'll try and get the article read and supply more information.

February 19, 2002, 07:41 PM	#12
bernie Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2000 Posts: 145	Without a doubt, it has to be the .22 short.

February 19, 2002, 07:53 PM	#13
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	The most powerful rifle known to me is the Type 94 18.1"/45-caliber naval gun fitted to the battleships Yamato and Musashi. Muzzle velocity is 2,559 fps, with a 1,460 kg APC Type 91 factory load. I do not believe +P or +P+ loads are available in this caliber.

February 19, 2002, 07:55 PM	#14
Ewok_Guy Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Endor Posts: 1,664	.40 S&W! {edited:{ oops wrong thread. ] __________________ "Death and honor are thought to be the same, but today I have learned that sometimes they are not." --------------------- " I like big fat men like you. When they fall they make more noise! ...and sometimes they never get up." -Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

February 19, 2002, 08:51 PM	#15
Glamdring Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2000 Location: MN Posts: 1,388	What do you mean when you say "shoulder fired"? To me that means that you can fire it offhand. The Soviet 14.5 is well beyond the 50bmg and IIRC was used in anti tank rifles. The 50 bmg was/is available in the Rhino was slightly shorter in OAL than the the Steyr Scout and went about 16lbs which is in the same wt range as many sniper rifles or old matchlocks used in combat. __________________ "A traveler has no protection besides his fire-arms; and the constant habit of carrying them is the main check to more frequent robberies" --Charles Darwin from The Voyage Of The Beagle

February 19, 2002, 09:01 PM	#16
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	.500 Nitro Express....ME 5850 .600 Nitro Express.....ME 6850 .460 Weatherby Mag..ME 8245 Nuttin on .700 Sam

February 19, 2002, 09:23 PM	#17
Fatelvis Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Lockport, IL Posts: 490	Where the hell was the angel/pin thing going?

February 19, 2002, 10:14 PM	#18
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	Well, if by rifle you mean a fairly conventional looking shoulder-fired weapon weighing under 15 lbs, I believe that the .577 Tyrannosaur takes the cake. Over 11,000fpe at the muzzle. Absolutely vicious recoil seems to virtually eliminate the chance at a follow up shot--aim carefully.

February 19, 2002, 11:21 PM	#19
Azrael256 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2001 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 547	the only problem with 11,000 fpe is that it'll be brontosaurus for breakfast, brontosaurus for lunch, brontosaurus for dinner, brontosaurus for breakfast, bronto.... oh you get the idea.

February 19, 2002, 11:43 PM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	JohnKSa, there's a reason I said practical! Well, I guess a .460 Weatherby is practical. Glamdring, I don' wanna shoot a .460 any other way than offhand. The very idea of benchresting sumpn like that is, er, "off-putting". And just flat-out forget prone position. What's all this about pin-headed angels? Fatelvis, I'd say it was headed down. Far enough down that the angels would become little demons! , Art

February 20, 2002, 10:06 AM	#21
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Fatelvis, what I meant to do was show that it was an open ended question. The answer is infinite...unless the Pope is getting two helpings of peach cobbler. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

February 20, 2002, 10:13 AM	#22
goosegunner Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: norway Posts: 81	Shoulder fired rifle, would that include rpg's like Carl Gustaf 84mm?

February 20, 2002, 10:49 AM	#23
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	goosegunner - - - Never examined one, but I don't believe the Carl Gustaf 84mm RPG has a rifled tube. "Course, I could be wrong. Left my copy of Jane's Cherished Destructive Devices home this morning. Best, Johnny

February 20, 2002, 11:04 AM	#24
Cain R Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2001 Location: Peoples Dominion of Kanada Posts: 288	R.B. Rodda 4 bore

February 20, 2002, 11:17 AM	#25
Chad Young Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 1999 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 601	The most powerful rifle cartridge in the world is the one in the gun that is pointed at you at the time the question is asked. __________________ Come visit me at www.aboutguns.net