Israeli TAVOR Tar 21 for US Market!!!

[Badger Arms]

There have been a few mentions of this lately. Here's a picture of what they plan on marketing:



Found this on this web site.

[mussi]

I want a version with flash hider down here, preferably full-auto too.

[Azrael256]

We need a *drool* smiley. Seriously.

[Nightcrawler]

I have two questions.

Will it have the reversable bolt that the actual Israeli one does? And will it accept standard AR15 magazines, or will it be forced to take neutered magazines like the HK?

Both of these are requirements for my buying it. If it isn't reversable, then it's like the Bushmaster bullpup: neat, but unusable to a lefty like me.

If it's reversable but only takes 10 round magazines, what's the point? I'd settle for 10+1 in a .308, but in a .223? No.

[Christopher II]

Nightcrawler -

Check out the cutout right above the magwell. I'll bet that's a left-side ejection port cover.

Agreed on the magazines.

- Chris

[Destructo6]

The magwell looks modified. If it doesn't accept AR mags, I won't touch it. Otherwise, I'll sell my last pint of blood for one.

[rocko]

Barrett is manufacturing these, ejection port can be set up for either side and it will take standard ar15 mags. Price is pretty high at an estimated $1500 dealer, though. From what I heard, these are going to be completely US made, rather than being imported in a neutered version and converted by Barrett, so I suppose "Tavor clone" is a more appropriate name. However, they only seem to vaguely resemble the Tavor's externally - they most closely resemble the integrally supressed version, but even then there are some easily found external differences (not including, of course, the lack of a supressor). I don't know why they just didn't make one that looks like the standard Tavor...

Rocko

[George Hill]

I want the MARS optical gunsite too.

[SIGarmed]

"All of the controls as well as the ejection port can be moved without tools in few minutes to allow use by left-handed operational. Several optional accessories are available for attachment to the Tavor including a bipod and an under M203 grenade launcher. The TAR uses standard M16 magazines."


This is per the isayeret website:

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/tar.htm

[Correia]

I played with one at SHOT, and talked to Robbie Barrett. It will take AR15 mags. The ejection is reversible, but you will need a left handed bolt head, which will be available.

Very impressive little beast. Stock heavy, but I suppose you get used to that. Trigger was Ok, better than the Augs I've played with, but not real good. You are going to have to scope this thing. The emergency backup iron sights are pretty weak.

I would like to have one, but I don't know if I would pay $1500 for one, unless I was one of those lucky folks who have so much money they don't know what to do with it all.

[KSFreeman]

Yawn. No interest here. Never liked bullpups.

I like the mag out in front between me and the threat for reloads and mal drills. No x-ray vision here. YMMV. I guess if you were brought up in like the Eastern Empire and served in the militree there you would be used to it.

That being said, best wishes to the manufacturer; hope they sell a bunch of them.

[ronin308]

Why do they make civilian versions of military rifles so ugly? I thought the original Tavor was cool looking but that one is just plain ugly! Why can't they just bring out a regular Tavor in that lacks the threaded muzzle/flashider?

[Sundance]

To each his own...BUT

Things not to like about this weapon:
1) It is butt ugly
2) Ridiculously short sight radius
3) It is a bullpup so the mag is way back in the back preventing fast mag changes
4) It is a bullpup so the ejection port is right next to your face so you can get sprayed with hot gases and unburned powder
5) It is a bullpup so the muzzle is closer to your ears making the already loud .223 round even louder
6) It is expensive as crap...you can get a tackdriving AR for much less
7) Did I mention it is a bullpup?
8) Did I mention it is butt ugly?

[Nightcrawler]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I happen to think AR's are every bit as ugly as this.

But then, this IS NOT AN AR, which is a good reason to get one. EVERYBODY has ARs. HO HUM! It's about time we saw some new faces on the gun rack.

Awful boring world when everybody shoots the same rifle.

And if you dislike bullpups, don't buy one, but I'll give you this: It can have a full 20" barrel in a shorter overall length than a 16.5" AR15.

[4V50 Gary]

did you really think they were talking about something other than guns?

[Apeach]

The original Tavor does look cooler, and I'd prefer one of those without the flash hider, but on the website there's a picture of one of these with a Trijicon ACOG and a cheekpiece, and I think it looks significantly better than the one without them. And even though I've never used a bullpup, I've got nothing against them. Seems to me like a novel concept to fix the size problem, and if it works for you go with it.

[Badger Arms]

Is that an attachment point for a port buffer behind the Lefty ejection port? I'd like a little rubber deflector there if I were to shoot it.

I agree with everybody that it is Ugly as SIN. Let me tell you, sin is VERY ugly. I, too, am wondering why they don't just build the TAR-21 in Semi-Auto and call it good?

[George Hill]

Short sight radius is moot if you mount a red dot sight on it like 99.99% of owners will do it anyways.

[Skorzeny]

While at it, why not US-make a clone of the Galil in .223 or .308? Since the IDF is busy arming its troops with aid-paid FMS sale M-16 variants (like M-4), I am sure there'll be lots of Galil receivers.

Skorzeny

[Correia]

As one of the people who has actually seen/handled this particular gun:

1. It isn't as ugly as it looks in the picture in this thread. That is a pretty crappy shot. The actual one doesn't look that different from the TAR21. And we don't shoot black rifles because of their intrinsic beauty. If I wanted beauty I would shoot a customized Mauser stocked in claro walnut. When I pick a fighting/competition gun looks are pretty near the bottom of my list.

2. The sight radius is short. But the sights in the picture are the EMERGENCY back up iron sights. they flip down when not in use. No body in their right mind will use iron sights on this thing. George is right, scopes will be used 99.99% of the time.

3. Fast mag changes. Nothing changes mags faster than the AR, ok fine. But if you wanted an AR the same length as this thing it would have six inches less barrel. TANSTAAFL.

And besides, I'm sure with a little practice you can change the mags pretty fast in just about any gun. I used a Vepr in a 3 gun match Saturday, no my mag changes weren't as fast as the AR, but you practice with your particular gun until you are smooth. Besides, change mags when you are moving and it doesn't hurt you much anyway.

[Correia]

And about the muzzle blast being closer to the shooter.

My local SWAT team has some team members shooting Galils with 12 inch barrels. Talk about muzzle blast.

It is all about picking the right tool for the job. Maybe those officers would be better off with a really stubby rifle with a full barrel?

[KSFreeman]

Correia, are you saying training matters? Go figure.

All the training I've had is with the M-16/AR-15 system so that's what I'm partial to. I'm not saying you can't do it and if that's what you grew up with in Oz or Eastern Emprie then it's probably normal to you.

Whatever you like, I'm glad to see this out there. May they sell a bunch.

[M1911]

It's been my impression that most bullpups have really crummy trigger feel, due to the fact that the trigger has to be a long way from the firing pin.

I'm pretty spoiled by my 4 1/2 lb NM triggers on my ARs.

M1911

[Correia]

KS, training and practice are our friends.


M1911, The trigger wasn't very nice. Not nearly as good as a tuned AR. It was ok though. Hard to explain, but then again I mostly shoot a FAL and I consider its trigger normal so everything seems pretty good to me.

[ronin308]

Did anyone else notice that the optical mounting rail is much farther forward than on the orginal Tavor? Maybe its just my eyes... Can you even mount a standard eye relief scope on it?

Dan