U. Professor to Quit If Campus Has Guns

[DaiBando]

Maybe we have found a way to get the leftists out of their tenured positions.

As my Dad would say, "Don't let the door hit you . . ."

Note the irony of the last sentence.

http://www.sltrib.com/2002/Apr/04182002/utah/utah.htm

U. Professor to Quit If Campus Has Guns

BY DAN HARRIE
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Prominent University of Utah Law Professor John Flynn vowed Wednesday he will resign if the school is forced by the Legislature and Attorney General Mark Shurtleff to accept concealed guns on campus.

Flynn predicted others will do the same, creating an "exodus" of faculty at the same time the U.'s reputation is pummeled among potential recruits.

"Trying to recruit someone nationally when we're known as the only major university in the country where guns are allowed on campus would be disastrous," Flynn said. "It will be very destructive to the university."

Flynn made the comments during a debate with Shurtleff at the U. Law School. The longtime faculty member, who said he is three to four years from retirement, made clear he was speaking only for himself, not the administration.

But university spokesman Fred Esplin said President Bernie Machen and other U. leaders share Flynn's fears about the guns-on-campus issue bruising the institution's credibility.

"Definitely," Esplin said in an interview. "There is concern about the way the U. of U. would be perceived among our sister institutions around the country, and our ability to recruit."

Machen last month filed a "friendly lawsuit" against Shurtleff seeking a definitive court ruling on whether the U.'s gun-ban violates a Utah statute. The law permits legal concealed weapons everywhere except a few "secure facilities," such as prisons, mental institutions and airports.

The showdown over gun rights has received widespread publicity, including coverage in The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today and The Chronicle of Higher Education.

"There are a lot of eyes on Utah on this one," said Esplin. "There's a lot of curiosity and raised eyebrows wondering what's going on out here. Most people, quite frankly, can't believe it."

Shurtleff, who believes the university is in clear violation of state law by banning legally concealed weapons, doesn't buy arguments that forcing a change in policy would damage the school. "Not at all," says the state's top prosecutor, a graduate of the U. Law School.

"I think there are some professors who have the same irrational fear of guns [as Flynn] . . . that may not come. But I challenge the university to stand up for the Constitution and the law and for the rule of law and for the Legislature's right to determine what those laws are."

Shurtleff said the current federal court dispute has implications beyond the state's flagship school. Salt Lake Community College is the only public institution of higher learning in Utah that has a stated policy of allowing concealed weapons on campus.

The attorney general compared the no-gun policy to anti-Arab discrimination in the wake of Sept. 11. While many people legitimately feared young Arab men in the wake of the terrorist attacks, "you would never kick them out of the classroom. You would protect those civil rights."

"I'm not saying, and I have never said I think guns ought to be on university campuses or in schools. I don't think that's the place for them," said Shurtleff. "The problem is we have criminals who don't obey the law. They are not going to obey your little policy."

Shurtleff repeated arguments he has made before that the campus would be safer with concealed weapons present, based on their deterrent effect on crime. He cited the studies of former University of Chicago professor John Lott to back up his claim.

Flynn disputed Lott's conclusion, saying other scholars have published findings that "convincingly trashed" his study work.

As to Shurtleff's comment about an "irrational fear" of guns, Flynn said, "I've seen what guns can do. I've felt what guns can do. I've been shot. That's why I don't want them around -- period."

Later he said that as a youngster he was shot in the shoulder in a gun accident that also killed a friend of his. But he said his opposition to guns on campus stems not from his personal experience, but from his belief that the presence of arms would interfere with the academic freedom and independence of the university.

dharrie@sltrib.com

[nascarnhlnra]

Does anyone neeed help packing or a one way ticket to Afghanistan ?

[Zundfolge]

Sounds like U of U will not only have the safest campus, but the best quality of education available.

Criminals and liberals run from gun owners

[Tamara]

I believe this is the oldest and most educated person I've ever heard pout the words "If I can't pitch, I'll take my ball and go home".

[foghornl]

An old Ray Charles song comes to mind.....

"Hit the road, Jack, and don'tcha come back no more...no more....no more....no more........"

[Elker_43]

Just another Baldwin "I will leave the country" statement. I hope the U of U gives this guy the finger because I think it is all Butt Wipe lip movement just like Baldwin!

[Guy B. Meredith]

As to Shurtleff's comment about an "irrational fear" of SUVs driven by soccer moms, Guy B. Meredith said, "I've seen what SUVs driven by soccer moms can do. I've felt what SUVs driven by soccer moms can do. I've been cut off nearly killed. That's why I don't want them around--period."

[Correia]

I went to USU. The forgotten university at the cold end of the state. There was no policy against CCW there. In fact, lots of us carried. The campus cops knew that I carried, heck they were the ones that did my fingerprinting.

Funny, my education never suffered. We never had anybody freak out. No liberal worst case scenarios occured.

Our small bliss-ninny contingent would throw up a huge stink about once a year, bleating to ban guns on campus. Large groups of us would then debate them into submission. I've still got some of the Letters to the Editor. Good stuff.

Utah State is not as big as the U, but we still had over 20,000 students while I was there, so we weren't exactly a small school. Academically we are a good school. Our Business, Agriculture, and Engineering are excellent programs. Recognized around the country.

So I guess what I'm getting at here is that the U of U administration (Bernie & company) can kiss my big hairy USU alumni butt. Have a nice day.

Larry Correia
USU class of '00

[4V50 Gary]

Let him leave. That'll mean a newbie gets to play professor at a substantial salary savings to the University. With a bit of luck, the newbie will be pro-gun or neutral.

[Aion]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass...

- Aion

[Ala Dan]

Adios Amigo-

Regards,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.

[Mike Irwin]

Sorry, Doc, but that would make the law school my FIRST choice if I ever decided to go back for my law degree.

Glad to see, though, that you won't be there if I will be.

[Aion]

I believe you misspelled "AMF" -- glad to help.

- Aion

[C.R.Sam]

Syonara

[Watch-Six]

Those arrogant SOBs running the U have put themselves above the state law for years. To hell with them.

[another okie]

Sounds like a good opportunity for the University to hire some Second Amendment scholars and create a specialty area!

[Jim V]

Whiney bassit, ain't he? "Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I'm going to eat some worms."

[Will Beararms]

Finally, a legal, sensible way to get liberal pukes off of our college campuses!

[falconer]

Only major University to allow guns on campus? Hello? Ohio State GIVES me guns and ammo to shoot. If that isn't allowing guns on campus, I'm not sure what is.

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.fansonly.co...stol-body.html

[jimmy]

Good riddance to Prof. Flynn--as long as he doesn't get hired by the law school in my area. Shucks, for lying about the validity of John Lott's research he ought to be booted off campus, guns or no guns. But I expect his threat to leave is really just a pose.

[msuess]

Buh-bye. And let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

[Fred Hansen]

Criminals and liberals

Redundant and it repeats itself.

[blades67]

To quote Roman Maroni, "That guy's a fargin' icehole!"

[LonWilson]

The less anti-gunners like Flynn on campus, the better.

Don't let the door hit ya on your bliss ninny ass on the way out!!

[WOLV314]

Just make sure the door doesn't hit him on the way out.