Calif. desert concealed carry question while looking for reptiles?

[Colubrid]

I will be heading west this spring and will be spending most of my time in the deserts observing/photographing reptiles. Most of this takes place at night on paved roads through rocky canyons(note: none of these areas are in national parks). Needless to say this will put one in a high risk environment. I have been doing this for 20+ years and have had some bad experiences in the past in these remote areas (one was near the old Charles Manson ranch) I have been robbed and harassed by secluded drug manufacturers, chased by a man and his knife, approached by several gun toteing loonies, attempted robbery by mexican gang members out for some fun, attacked by wild dogs and had a warning shot fired over my head with an AK-47 . I have so far survived. I beleive the reason is that these people in these areas are extremely paranoid about their drug involvement.
Cell phones do not work out in these areas. So now I am a gun owner in a liberal gun law state and am a bit ignorant regarding calif. laws and bringing a handgun to Cali. ?
I am not a california resident (but have a carry permit from my state) and will be in my rented vehicle cruising the desert roads at night. The problem is there is a very high likelyhood that I WILL run into the Fish and Game warden at these remote locations . They are actually looking for people collecting reptiles without a permit . I have even had one officer place a rubber snake on the road and waited for someone to stop, when I did he came out of the bushes with his badge and snake sniffing dog and searched my vehicle. Chances are I WILL GET STOPPED and "SEARCHED" by F&S with or w/o a permit.
Any advise on how to legal carry in the vehicle in the middle of the desert ...in or hiking out of side of the vehicle ???????

thank You!

P.S.
I will also be hiking in the High Sierra Mtns with a back pack. Any advise on what is legal carry in this situation as well would be helpful as well?

Thanks for any advise!

[Modifiedbrowning]

Check out www.packing.org.

[Colubrid]

bump

[Frohickey]

Couldn't you go and visit and write the area's Fish and Game department stating your intention to observe and photograph? Give them some sample of your published works, might not hurt to get some endorsements from previous employers/clients.

You might get a letter back and maybe show that to the F&G rangers that you encounter.

[Colubrid]

There are a lot of people photographing and it IS illegal to photograph with out a licence since it implies intent. If you have a license they ALWAYS search your car thinking you are a poucher and have over the legal limit of certain species (+there are several protected species as well in Calif,)
The F&G (G&F) do not need an "excuse" nor your "permission" to search your vehicle.

[Dave P]

Let me get this straight: "and it IS illegal to photograph with out a licence ". Why would this be true? I can't photos on public lands with my Brownie unless I have a licence ?

And what's up with this: "The F&G (G&F) do not need an "excuse" nor your "permission" to search your vehicle." What law gives them that right? Or, where did you sign away the right against unreasonables searches?

This is the United States we are discussing, right?

[Colubrid]

HERE ARE A FEW POSTS REGARDING REPTILE PHOTGRAPHERS AND THE F&S from another web site that I copied (note ..herping = looking for reptiles. The pillow cases are to place a snake inside) :

POSTS taken from www.kingsnake.com...:

I was cited in the Whitewater area by a asian warden using a dead gopher snake a few weeks back. I was only taking pictures that night and left my license at home. I had left some pillowcases in the car and when the warden searched my vehicle, he found the pillowcases, and cited me for FGC 7145(a) taking reptiles without a license. He advised me that the definition of "take" was: "to hunt, persue, catch, capture or kill, or the attempt to hunt, persue, catch, capture or kill." I looked at his code book and sure enough, you need the fishing license present to "take" reptiles.
Just a warning for those of you who take photos.

HERE IS ANOTHER POST from www.kingsnake.com:

your permission. They are the only law enforcement
that can do it. The loop hole goes something like
this: They can search a boat and items in the boat
when someone is fishing. Now they translate into
herpers cars when herping. See my post below for
details. But myself and others have told the nice
officer that we didn't want them to search the
car and they say we can, and they will whip out
there penal codes for us to read.
Now what has to happen is the have to do that
to someone that has 50 grand. And that person hires
a good lawer and take it to the surpreme court. But
until than they will search your car without permission.
Something a city cop can't do.


another post from kingsnake.com:

: Areas inside your vehicle not covered under the Reasonable Expectation clause are known as Immediate Reach.
: Immediate Reach Searches or "Terry Frisks" are legal under the "Terry Frisk" clause. Set forth by Terry vs. Ohio. These "frisks" only require Reasonable suspicion on the part of the officer and NOT probable cause or warrant.
: The discussion on what part of the vehicle can be searched on a "Terry Frisk" could go on all day, but if your pillow cases were within your immediate reach inside the vehicle and the officer can articulate reasonable suspicion, he was in the right.


another post taken from kingsnake.com:

For those of you who still drive whitewater, be aware, they are cracking down hard on people night driving. I just drove it last night (tues) and it was like a sceen from the TV show cops! There were 2 F&G officers each having their own truck, they pulled us over because we made 2 passes on the road. They told us to stick our hands out the window and then had us get out of the truck with our hands on the hood. We had 1 sidebloched lizard (which 1 of the 2 officers could not identify) a baby desert iguana (which both officers couldn't identify) and a dead 3 1/2 foot red diamond rattlesnake (we found it dead in the canal) which the officer told me "I don't know what kind of rattler that is BUT IT IS NOT a red diamond!" Then they pulled another car over as we were still on the hood, they kept asking if we had any "rosys" and if we had any secret compartments in the car. After we told them no they began to search the car and when they came across an un-tied bag with more bags inside it he again asked "are you sure you don't have any rosys?" and then said, "This bag is heavy (because it had more bags in it!) I know there is something in here." He came up empty handed and looked stupid. I SUGGEST THAT IF FISH AND GAME ARE GOING TO PATROLE THOSE AREAS, AT LEAST BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY ALL NATIVE SPECIES, NOT JUST ROSYS. It's an insult not to be pulled over but to have an F&G officer tell me the dead red diamond rattlesnake in my truck isn't one, and still cannot identify it.

Okay,
The point is I want to protect myself while in the desert. These F&G guys are out there but NOT when you need them.....
Also, they are not out in the middle of knowwher to pull over a carload of gang menbers in a lowrider. they are after law abiding citizens that may be out there taking pictures of reptiles w/o a license!




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Follow Ups:

[Russ Howard]

Pictures of lizards without a license? At-will searches?

What a bunch of Nazi traitor scumbags.

It just gets worse and worse. This is so different from the America I grew up in. What a tragedy.

[C.R.Sam]

[Jim March]

NOTHING would surprise me about California's DFG.

These morons banned pet ferrets, even though they don't have jurisdiction over domesticated animals. That didn't stop 'em. They wrote a regulation saying "wild means any animal we find to be not normally domesticated in California". Yet you walk into a PetSmart or other major pet supply place, you'll see whole shelves full of ferret supplies . Petco does over a million bucks in ferret supplies in NorCal along, annually .

The skinnykitties themselves you get from Reno or Las Vegas pet shops . I know of one case where some dude's ex-girlfriend turned him in for his weinercat, DFG showed up, he told 'em to get a warrant, judges asked to sign such a thing just laughed, and they STAKED OUT HIS HOUSE looking for direct visual evidence of a carpet shark. For two days. Ferret activists finally called the media, who came down and asked 'em if they were really staking out a house looking for tame houseweasels. They left .

Anyways. You are going to HAVE to score a Calif CCW permit. Which means moving to the right jurisdiction. Once you score a permit, it's good statewide.

If you're moving to SoCal, there's a CCW instructor name of Dennis Kennedy who knows the LEO scene down there better than I do, and can advise you. soginc@earthlink.net

There ARE shall-issue counties down there, or they're fair about issuance. With your circumstances, scoring in Orange County should be easy, although he's not quite shall-issue, he'll buy your "good cause" if it's decent.

Good luck.

[Colubrid]

I am not moving to Cali but I am only visiting!!

I AM bringing my handgun and wanted to know the following:

1) Can I even have one if I am from out of state?

2) When I am backpacking is it legal to carry? If so where do I keep my handgun (in backpack, pocket ect?)

3) Also what is the proper "place" to keep a loaded handgun in a vehicle while driving in the desert?

4) Do I have to keep my gun in my trunk unloaded and locked in a case?


Jim,
Appreciate the input and should I ever move back to calif. I will have to look into scoring in a shall issue county before buying a home.....
great tip!
Thanks!

[Jim March]

Transport: unloaded, locked container, ammo not in the container, not accessible while rolling (usually means trunk, unless you don't have a trunk).

Carry: you're screwed. I think so, anyways. There's no such thing as legal open carry, not while it's loaded. Unloaded, you'll get hassles from hell. Concealed, you're hosed.

[Phil Ca]

If you go onto fed dot gov property then you can expect to meet the "Cactus Cops" of the Bureau of Land Management. They patrol alone in locations the size of Delaware and are usually college educated in some sort of eart science, but they also carry guns and are trained investigators. Cactus theft is big business in the Mohave area.

[Colubrid]

our hard earned tax dollars at work again...

I wish (dream) that FOX News or someone would expose all this ......never gonna happen!

[Russ]

I lived in the PRK for most of my life and just got out about 6 months ago. What Jim March said about carry is correct. Locked containers and so on.

Things are probably only going to get worse out there particularly if Davis gets re-elected. He has never seen and anti gun bill he didn't like. If re-elected, the people still there better hold on to your asses.

The legislature just keeps on coming up with one anti bill after another and Davis will sign them as long as he doesn't fear being kicked out of office. I hope Bill Simon can pull of a miracle and beat that SOB but it's not looking good at this point.

[Jim March]

If you're looking for the biggest and nastiest reptiles in California, you need to go to the state capitol. They run around on two legs and wear expensive suits.