"Macho Man" problems... help.

[twoblink]

One of my female friends, we'll just say her bf is the jealous type. They broke up a month ago, but they still "act" like bf/gf, hang out everyday together etc...

The relationship is rediculous... He goes out with other women (hey, they broke up right??) but comes home at night to her bed... and when he is out, he calls her and tells her to stay at home and wait for him... and of course, the sick part is... SHE DOES!!

So of course, amongst all the people around me, I'm known as the "gun obsessed nut", and so she mentioned that she has never gone shooting and would like to try it sometime. So I said, whenever you are free, I'll take ya. Well, her bf got a wind of that, and not wanting to be "one-up'ed" by me, he said he would take her shooting.

So... he is going to go shooting (for the first time!!!) tomorrow, and he plans to follow that up, by taking her the next day, and teaching her how to shoot... (See, because he's just as manly as me...)

I asked who is taking him, and she replied, one of his friends. I asked if he owns guns, and she said no, he's just been shooting once..

OK... So, the situation in summary is this:
She is a ditz for sticking to a male chauvinist who will cheat on her in a heartbeat, has told her so, treats her like crap... and of course the sad thing is he CAN because she has demonstated that there is no consequences for his actions/behavior...

He on the other hand, is the very definiton of "why all men are pigs" and not only does he give all men a bad name, he does it so blatently..

But, being this is TFL, my question is, what can I say/do to curb this rediculous attempt at testosterone comparison??
I am very concerned anytime a "2nd time shooter" takes a "1st time shooter" who intends to become an "instructor to his gf" the following day. Safety... Good habits... respect for a gun.... none of these exist... the only thing in his mind is he's got to be more "macho" then me..

And I'm sure he will hand her a .357Mag for her first outing, and she will hate shooting, and we'll have lost one forever... Arrrg..

I'm SOOO frustrated with BOTH OF THEM right now...

<Oleg> Why are you friends with people like this anyway??</Oleg>
<Albert> Because the Bible said, God came to heal the sick and weak, not the strong and healthy. Taking this philosophy, if gunnies only stick to gunnies, who is going to preach to the anti's and the clueless masses??</Albert>

[legalhack]

Sounds to me that if you keep this friendship up with her (she is an idiot by the way...) you will have more problems than just a penis measuring contest with this other dude. Cut away from this chick - she's bad news.

[DadOfThree]

If you do keep her for a friend ( I hate to give up on people), Why not offer to give her some extra lessons just so that you know she is learning the proper safety measures and shooting techniques? You may want to invite her to the range along with 1 or 2 others so the BF doesn't think you are hitting on her. You might even ask the BF if he wants to go along (if you can stand him). He probably won't accept the invitation since you are a shooter and he isn't. Wouldn't want to look bad in front of the GF

[butchb243]

I don't know but IMHO the best help I can see is to give you a parashoot.



This looks like a no win no matter what you do, neither of these people sound stable enough to be in the same county with a gun!

[twoblink]

I was VERY tempted to invite both of them to go shooting, of course the bf would never go, again, my penis is longer and I definitely group better at 21feet...

Good idea... I don't like to give up on people, and so I'll give it a go, if not the friendship, at least the gun safety part...

[Ed Brunner]

Would I be an alarmist to point out that this is a male rivalry involving guns? In this case, discretion IS the better part of valor.

[Apple a Day]

If these two are as irresponsible ( and I am using that exact word on purpose) then handing one of them a gun doesn't seem like a particularly good idea.
If you insist, then maybe ask girlfriend what they actually shot. Chances are they rented one pistol at the range... something huge and he-manly but not much for variety. Mention that there are a lot of other gun types/calibers, drop some tidbits to get her interested, then show her your collection. Let her hold them and see which one 'fits her best'. If she bites then offer to let her shoot them and set up a date, er... appointment to go shooting. Just a suggestion.
Are you really sure you wanna do this?

[Long Path]

Probably best to pull silk on that one, twoblink.

You can't save her from herself. You can express your feelings, and detatch.

If you INSIST on taking her shooting, for gawd's sake get someone not emotionally involved (I.E., not you nor her b/f) to teach her, and stay out of their way. Load magazines, hand up guns when asked, make target runs, but let the uninvolved teacher do his/her thing, unencumbered by baggage.

[citizen]

Well, twoblink, this may not sit well with you, but the jig is up.

IMHO, this is a door BEGGING to remain shut.

ANYTHING you do with EITHER of them concerning firearms is almost GUARANTEED to come back and bite you......BIG TIME.

Reason for my paranoid assessment?

Adding gunpowder to whatever volatile elements they utilize in their daily dynamics is merely a fuse waiting to be lit. And, ultimately, they (whomever survives) will blame YOU.

Wanna be under that microscope?

Write this one off; and sleep well at night.

(Or don't; and maybe wake to a real nightmare.)

[CastleBravo]

Fools. Avoid.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Sweet dreams are made of these, who am I to disagree, some of them want to abuse you,
some of them want to be abused.

Walk away from this man.

[Byron Quick]

Been there, done that. Won't be there again.


Don't go there.

[FPrice]

"But, being this is TFL, my question is, what can I say/do to curb this rediculous attempt at testosterone comparison??"

The ONLY thing you can do to affect this involves the only person in the equation whom you have any control over. YOU.

HIM - If your description is accurate (and I am sure that it is) then anything you do short of rolling over and exposing your vulnerable underbelly is simply going to spur him on to more and more ridiculous and possibly dangerous behavior. Oh, you can try to establish your physical and psychological domination over him for once and for all, but that is a very dangerous action that you DON'T want to do unless you have no other choice.

HER - I would guess that this woman may have some other problems which keep her attached to this jerk despite all the abusive behavior he demonstrates towards her. I won't even try to pretend that I know all the psycho-babble and assorted theories about why this happens. For now it is sufficient that we recognize that this is a problem relationship and that this problem can encompass you if you are not careful.

YOU - The easiest and safest thing for you would be to simply walk away because the chances of you getting hurt in all this are probably growing by each day. However, if you decide to try to stay and be a friend, you must avoid doing anything to inflame or threaten this guy's macho self-image or else he will view you as competition.

You seem to be concerned that "...I'm sure he will hand her a .357Mag for her first outing, and she will hate shooting, and we'll have lost one forever... Arrrg.." Well, I would say this this is of lesser importance than other possible outcomes. It sounds like this is a relationship heading for a physically/mentally abused woman (I know, she is already mentally abused by what you have described) or eventually one more dead woman killed by an abusive "partner". THAT is the real tragedy.

Proceed carefully my friend. I'll just leave you with one more thought. Most LEOs hate domestic violence calls for many obvious reasons. One of the reasons I have heard described is that when they eventually determine that an assault has taken place and that they have to remove one partner (usually the male) the other partner (the female) has been known to turn on the officers and assault them to "protect" her mate.

As much as you know this woman, you may not know how much she is attched to him in her mind and what behaviors this attachment may produce. Ask yourself, how did he find out that you were taking her shooting, and why was this even brought up to a guy who demonstrates such behavior?

[gryphon]

Do yourself a favor and drop the whole thing. All that's goign to happen is that you will wind up getting into a confrontation with this idiot BF and get yourself into trouble.

You know the situation is trouble, but me thinks you have the hots for the GF, so your letting your emotions override your common sense.

STAY AWAY FROM THEM!

Just my $.02

gryphon

[Long Path]

Nicely put, FPrice.

[Jim March]

About the only possible way I can see of salvaging this crap is to call the lady in question, and say:

"Lemme get this straight: he's going to go out shooting for the very first time himself, get taught to shoot by an unqualified instructor, and then teach YOU to shoot? And I'm supposedly the "big bad gun nut" but this would scare the hell out of ME? Do you understand that it's possible to get ahold of a super-lightweight gun made out of Titanium or even more exotic metal, load too hot a round in it, and literally break a newbie's wrist because they don't know how to deal with the recoil? This guy appears able to talk you into dang near anything, but this goes too far.

To cite just one issue: the top mistake made by newbies is to always grab the gun with finger on the trigger, and the other is to not watch their muzzle direction. I've had so much range time, with the safety rules drilled into me so deep, that if I'm cleaning the kitchen with a bottle of Windex spray I'm psychologically unable to point the nozzle at somebody, and I keep my forefinger straight unless I'm actually spraying. That sort of instinct for gun safety doesn't happen in one day, it takes repeated practice and a solid instruction in the fundamentals from day one - once ingrained, your odds of having an accident that hurts yourself or somebody else is extremely low. It's in me, and it's something I'll be watching for in you that I'll be able to gently correct when you're starting out."

If that don't do it, nothing will.

I do -=NOT!=- under any circumstances think it's a good idea for you, her and this nutcase to be at the range at the same time. He's an immoral lunatic with poor impulse control and something to prove.

I do recommend packing in his presence, deeply concealed.

[4V50 Gary]

What LongPath says. Besides, other than relatives, is any woman really worth fighting over?

BTW, some women think it's romantic to have two bucks fight over her. Recommend conceding to the other fellow that he is a better man and let him suffer for it.

[coonan357]

two blink , Danger !!! if a woman is willing to put up withthis type of person you do not need the trouble it will cause later on in life ! walk away and don't look back there is nothing worse than a jealous type of BF ! they haunt you in many ways .

[Coronach]

Assuming that what you have told us is correct (and I'm not saying that you're lying- its just that everyone sees things from a biased perspective).

Him He sounds like the (rather apt) description of Lord Byron- mad, bad and dangerous to know. He would seem to have issues, and potentially violent ones at that. If he was an abusive ex-boyfriend still stalking a well-and-truly-ex-girlfriend, I doubt anyone (myself included) would be advising you to steer clear. Everone has exes, and not all of them are nice people. However...

Her She sounds like she also has issues. She is willingly taking what he is handing out. She can leave, and she is not doing so. She does not even have the classic 'trapped-in-an-abusive-relationship' scenario...she (presumably) has a job. She has friends. They have no kids. And still she stays with him...even if they're not together. She is doing this because she wants to do this. She is either trying to get him back (whereupon you are set up as a pawn in her little romantic chess game), or she has deeper issues. Now, this is the tough part, HER ISSUES ARE NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN HELP HER SOLVE. She must do this for herself.

YouSomeone said this already. You are the only person in this situation that you can control. She is either trying to get him back, or she is unable to break away. You don't want to help in the first situation, and you are unable to help in the second. Castle Bravo summed it up best "Fools, avoid."

Obviously, adding firearms to this scenario is probably not a great idea. If she were strong or bright ebough to make a clean break, and mean it, that would be very different. But she isn't. Thats the way it is.

Mike

[bruels]

It sounds like you are getting sucked into a game of, "Let's you and him fight." Besides, if she is willing to stay at home while he goes out and screws around, she has agreed to become the receptacle for every imaginable sexually transmitted disease in town.

Bruce

[Cal4D4]

How about some bad advice to go with the good?

Airsoft or paintballs at 20 paces. Uniform of the day is T-shirt(Molon Labe of course) and Speedos. When one of you drops, see which one she runs to. If she comes for you, run.

[hansolo]

Here's what ya do: Challenge Mr. Macho to a game of Russian Roulette; being high on steroids, he may go for it. Then, get two revolvers. Load yours with a Snap-cap. Give him one(or more)real ones(I'd go with biggest caliber you can get). Challenge him to best 5 out of 6. You go first to show "Mongo" you are fair. Then, after three or four turns, he puts muzzle to temple, squeezes trigger and..........KA-BOOM-SPLAAAAAT-THUD!!!

End of problem and the Herd is thinned-out.

[Betty]

Twoblink, this woman obviously wants this creep to stay with her; she's co-dependant (or probably mentally abused or worse) and is willing to put up with him straying and telling her what to do. She will only leave him when she is ready to do so, even after family, friends, and even after cops show up at the door.

In her desperation to keep the affections of this "man", she's employing one of the oldest tricks in the book: she's trying to get him back and keep him by making him raving jealous that she's doing things with another man. She announced this fact by telling him you were taking her to the range - one of the ultimate testosterone man-teach-woman things. It was a rib-jab and a small attempt at revenge for all the times he's been with other women.

She's hoping it will work, and it may for a few hours of attention at the range, but he's going to go back playing his games as soon as he's done tying her back on his leash. And she'll falsely be a bit happier for the little bits of attention, and strive for more.

The only thing you can do at this point to be a suportive friend, but be very, very careful not to even hint at stepping over the line of "just a friend" - because this guy is obviously a problem, and you don't want to be in the middle.

[Guy B. Meredith]

I dunno, I think it would be interesting to show up independently at the range with someone else either learning from you or feigning. Go down a few lanes to appear independent, but not so far that they couldn't compare targets.

Don't engage them in any way, just do your thing and let the results speak for themselves.

I love to do this to members of the great unwashed public who think shooting is all about noise and hitting bullseyes is all about luck.

By the way they both appear to be either immature, a bit sick or jerks.

[C.R.Sam]

Bail.
For all the above reasons.

Sam