Tamara volunteers as guinea pig...

[Tamara]

At the last show I went to, some guys had a table set up selling mostly parts, but also parting with some guns on the side. One of them was fascinating; the lightest, smallest FAL I'd ever seen. I piddled with it a bit, getting more intrigued by the minute. It was a .223, with a Galil barrel and using AR mags. "Dang!", thought I, "This thing's lighter than a shorty AR!".

Wait, wait, wait... Aluminum FAL reciever... Williams Arms... Hey, didn't DSA grenade one of these things with a .308 proof load? Well, yeah, but that was a .308, this is a .223; a conversion done by Meeper, a poster over at FAL files. With the FAL's locking shoulder design, chamber pressure shouldn't be the big problem; boltface thrust should be. And while the chamber pressure difference between .223 and .308 ain't all that much, there's a huge difference between the two in boltface thrust. What the heck; I'm game...

I talked to the owner a bit (who was internet savvy, and understood the bad publicity that could be generated by a flawed product) then I came home and did a bit of research on FAL files and took the gun to my 'smith to boot. Everybody gave the thing a clean bill of health; headspace was flawless; and Meeper has over 7k rounds through one of his conversions with no degradation in specs. I'm planning on giving this thing a thourough wringing out as soon as it stops raining, but I seem to have found myself a neat and esoteric little package. Good thing I had an AR mag just waiting for it at home...

[Steve Smith]

You neglected to tell us one thing...the price.

I am drooling. Please let us know about this asap!

[hksigwalther]

Pictures?

[uglygun]

Worse yet, little Miss Photographer neglected to include the mandatory pictures of her new pet along with her post. If not for educational purposes, then atleast to make us all suffer from bouts of jealousy.



[shakes head]what a let down[/shakes head]

[rock_jock]

Wait, wait, wait... Aluminum FAL reciever... Williams Arms... Hey, didn't DSA grenade one of these things with a .308 proof load? Well, yeah, but that was a .308, this is a .223; a conversion done by Meeper, a poster over at FAL files. With the FAL's locking shoulder design, chamber pressure shouldn't be the big problem; boltface thrust should be. And while the chamber pressure difference between .223 and .308 ain't all that much, there's a huge difference between the two in boltface thrust.

Am I the only one that didn't understand what the heck that meant?

[Erich]

That's just chick talk, rock jock; who knows what they're talking about?

[Christopher II]

Ooooohh, me like.
Lighter than a shorty AR, you say? Me really like.

- Chris

[ronin308]

Tamara...we understand...you are excited...now breathe...deeply...slowly...better yet?

[Frohickey]

WE WANT PICTURES!

WE WANT PICTURES!

(Tamara, if you decide to post some pictures, it would be appreciated.)

[KSFreeman]

Return of the CAL?

Hope it works this time.

[biere]

My interpretation of the educational part of her post is that 223 and 308 both have about the same amount of pressure pushing out against the brass, the pressure the powder burns at and propels the bullet at. This is what the chamber has to work against.

The other part gets into the recoil of it all. A bigger case even at the same overall pressure should exert more force. Think of people who like big blocks vs small blocks. More cubes even at same compression ratio give more torque unless something is wrong elsewhere. And yeah there are more variables, but basically the 308 does more work than a 223, there fore the concept of force she is after is that a weak anything that can't do 308 may do 223. This is the bolt face thrust or whatever she said, I forget since the first part was enough education for me.

And where are the pics?

I am scared to ask a price, how about you do it in figures of something else, like maybe cheap jennings, or glocks, or if real bad that pricey hk or custom 1911 stuff.

I just want pics with and without the mag.

[MiniZ]

You are really going to enjoy it Tamara.

I haven't had an opportunity to shoot Meeper's, but I can tell you it definitely looks COOL!!!

[C.R.Sam]

Big cartridge...
Little cartridge...
Both operating at about the same pressure per unit of area...cup or psi.

Larger cartridge exerts more force on the action...
Pressure times area and all that.

Tamara speak true.

Sam

[Chris McDermott]

And for those of you who wish to see what DSA did to that aluminium receiver look here

[boing]

Nice knowin' ya...

[rock_jock]

Thanks for info, guys. Actually, I did understand most of Tamara wrote, I was just making light of her obviously adrenaline-induced euphoria.

[Tamara]

The testing of the Williams Arms receiver was terminated after 189 service round firings and one proof firing when the receiver of the rifle was blown into a multiplicity of fragments. The receiver was measured before the first 100 rounds were fired, after the 100 service rounds and again after the proof round. The measurements indicate the headspacing progressively increased.

Note the line: "the headspace gradually increased". This is because in the FAL, unlike the AR (for instance), the bolt locks up into the receiver, rather than into a barrel extension. Normal FAL receivers are steel, and can stand the backwards thrust of the bolt before unlocking without deformation. In the alloy receiver, the backwards thrust of the bolt actually deforms the locking area slightly with each shot, causing headspace to increase with each shot enough so that by the time they fired the 189th round, the rifle blew up due to excessive headspace.

However, this was with .308.

With .223, the bolt is exposed to much less rearward force (boltface thrust) upon firing, and therefore the receiver does not suffer deformation (or, more accurately, suffers much less deformation). My rifle has seen a claimed ~1,000 rounds (internal wear on various parts would seem to confirm this) yet still has perfect headspace.

Basically, what Meeper has done is rescue a bunch of receivers that would otherwise have been doomed to life as paperweights because they'd never stand up to the battering of .308, and gave them new life as the platform on which to build cool .223's.

Mine has a DSA alloy lower, Williams alloy upper, Galil .223 barrel, and even a Volunteer Ordnance Works alloy folding charging handle. Weighs 7 lbs empty...

Kinda funny to see a FAL with an AR mag sticking out of it.

[Tamara]

P.S. I plan on checking headspace every so often just out of curiousity. I don't expect this thing to last forever, but if it ever starts to lose headspace, I can always just chuck the Williams and transplant everything else onto a fresh steel receiver.

Still, Meeper himself has one with 7,000+ rounds and still going strong...

[boing]

Ooooohhhhh...I though it was that blow-back .223 conversion, in a bullpup.

[citizen]

Ya know, I actually kinda LIKE it! Good luck, Tam!

[Snowdog]

That... um...

It's neat, a very unique...

A German Shepherd and Rottweiler mix... um...

Seriously, it's an interesting rifle for certain.

Let us know how it performs when you get the chance.

[Tamara]

I am scared to ask a price, how about you do it in figures of something else, like maybe cheap jennings, or glocks, or if real bad that pricey hk or custom 1911 stuff.

It cost eight Jennings, or two used Glocks, or one used P7 or half the MSRP of a Les Baer. The guy was asking nine; I got it for eight-and-a-quarter, out the door.

The Meeper conversions were, if my research is correct, about $600 + you supply your own parts (including a .223 barrel of some type; Winchester Model 70's and Galils seem the most common donor guns). The guy I bought it from figured he had about $1100 all-up in the gun, including stuff he'd done since it came back from Meeper (alloy charging handle, G3 grip, longer gas piston to fix a short-stroking problem).

[Tamara]

...here's the FAL with a Norinco AK:

[artech]

Tam, bolt thrust is usually just taking the chamber pressure and dividing it by the surface area of the case head. There is more than just pressure to consider, though, there is also the mechanical energy of the projectile to be distributed through the mechanism via the bolt/reciever lockup. This energy total would be much lessened with the 223, and probably this is why this conversion may well hold up better than the 308. Let us know how it goes!

Hope this helps.

[Glamdring]

What is the weight, barrel length and OAL?