Extra power of a .357 snubby over .38 special, is it worth it?

[PsychoSword]

I'm seriously considering buying a S&W .357 J-frame airlite. They are 12oz. which I love for carry, but with the short barrel, (Only 1 & 7/8 inch I believe) do they really develop the pressure to make them that much better than a .38 special of the same size and barrel length? I will be loading it with Remington 125 gr. at 580 ft/pds or else Corbons. I do not have a problem with recoil, I used to have a titanium Taurus .41 mag that I shot 210gr. out of without too much discomfort, and I'm not worried about muzzle flash. Any opinions or suggestions about these guns would be greatly appreciated.

[1911greg]

No in a barrel that short I don't think there would be any difference in performance just more noise, flash and recoil.

[Ben Shepherd]

The extra velocity(performance) is there, but the recoil out of a 12 oz. gun is horrendous.

This coming from someone who shoots stout 44 mag constantly.

I also use a 357 sp101 for my always gun. It isn't too bad recoil-wise, but any lighter I wouldn't practice nearly as much as I should.

I'm a firm believer that if you carry 357, practice with 357, not 38.

[Greybeard]

Experience here with and opinions on 340 (12 ounce 357) and 342 (11 ounce 38+P). Recoil "sting" from both due in large part to small grips that come on guns. Slightly larger rubber grips that cover backstrap can make shooting either a much more pleasant experience. My preference is Crimson Trace "overmoulded" grips.
Altho not on market long enough to confirm, scandium frame on 340 may hold up better than to lots of shooting than 342. Both have appreciable recoil with 38+Ps. 340 recoil pretty vicious with 357's but manageable, at least for me. (Others have shot once and put it down.) Personal carry mode is typically 3 GoldD ot plus P's (decent recovery for subsequent shots) then 2 125g Federals.
YMMV greatly. Just from memory, I think the 357's only get about another 50 to 100 pfs over similar weight +Ps. Many more decibels tho. Shot placement more critical than all other ramblings. Regards. Greybeard.

[C.R.Sam]

Primary consideration should be how well you can shoot it.

.357 Mag is significantly stouter than .38 Special +P out of a two inch barrel......

At both ends.

Sam

[PsychoSword]

Thanks, I'm mainly concerned about power gained compared to noise gained. In other words, if I have to shoot it indoors or a claustrophobic environment, will I be deaf for the rest of my life for that little extra bit of power gained (If it is in fact only a small amount). I remember how loud my titanium .41 magnum was, I didnt' like to carry it in case I had to actually fire it. (sounds weird huh) Even outdoors I was deaf after about 10 shots without earplugs and found myself flinching not from the recoil, but from the noise when I didn't have ear protection. I have a Cop .357 4 barrel, but I've found that it is only about half as loud as the .41 was. Regardless, I'm starting to lean towards the .357 model and load it with +P. And check into those grips.

[PsychoSword]

Primary consideration should be how well you can shoot it.

.357 Mag is significantly stouter than .38 Special +P out of a two inch barrel......

At both ends.

Sam

That's not my primary concern as I can shoot both great. As said before I'm mainly worried about whether the extra power is worth it. Because I'm not really sure it delivers significantly more velocity with a shorter than 2" barrel. And as we all know extra velocity also contributes to accuracy.

[Eric Larsen]

If all you want is stats for 38+P/+P+ vs 357 Mag loads from a snub....here you go. You can verify these with a chrono or others who have tested them also.

Average +P 38 Spec loads FPE is 200-220 these are the hottest we could find usually 158 gr. Some 125-130 gr weights clocked into this range also. 800 +- FPS with the heavies and 900 FPS +- with the 125-130 gr.

Average 357 Mag loads FPE is 400-450 these were 125 gr defensive loads...Hornady, GoldDots, Federal....etc 1250 FPS and more at times.

Averages from 5 guns around 2" barrel......Shoot well

[PsychoSword]

Wow, that's almost twice the energy, perhaps it is worth it...of course I would only shoot the lighter stuff such as 115-130 grain out of a snubby. Never 158gr.

[bad_dad_brad]

My opinion is to stick with the .38 in a snubby. Federal PD's will do the job.

[Nick96]

The question is how much recoil, flash and blast are you are willing to tolerate with a given firearm.

Since most armed encounters are close range and setteled with less than two shots, which one would you think is better?

[joeoim]

I carried a 2" ss smith for about 5 years till I lost it in the snow one winter. I never did replace it. I shot 38 s in it and even those will make your ears ring. The accuracy I was never happy with, or the fact that a158gr =+p was too much blast and jump for me but it was so nice to carry that I had it some times when I should of had the mod 66. Thats the reason I didn't replace it. Too nice to carry.

[twoblink]

What I have come to believe is that I won't own any 38Spls. Why? Well, I can shoot 38's out of a 357, but not the other way around. If you have 38's and 357's, I hate to have people borrow the gun and get confused and put in the wrong load as from visual sighting, I can't tell the difference. So I generally buy 357's and shoot only 38's out of them; but just in case someone did drop in a 357, it won't have a bad ending. Also, once in a while, I do like to throw a 357 in there, for kicks. I might buy a 38Spl, and regret not being able to shoot 357's out of it; but the other way would never happen. So I go with the regret and safety side of things.

[krept]

Anyone have any figures offhand for velocity loss of a .38 in a .357 revolver vs. same .38 in a dedicated .38 revolver (same cyl gap, bbl, etc.)?

Thanks.

[Poohgyrr]

As to whether or not it's worth it, I want to look at my abilities with the equipment.

My comfort zone, with my abilities, says I load .357's in my 640-1, but not in anything that's lighter.

And yes, .357's go faster than .38's, even in a J frame. They also kick more and are louder.

I have a 3" 629 that only gets loaded with magnums when I have the right rubber grips on it; otherwise it gets Specials only. The stock finger groved grips hurt my hands with magnums; other guys are fine with the stock grips, but that's them and this is me.

Kind of like how a stock 350 or 454 CID Chevy accelerates faster than a stock 1600 CC Yugo, not only for a quarter mile, but also for a block, or for a hundred miles.

[Eric Larsen]

357 Mag rounds wont work, function or shoot from a designated 38 Spec. gun. The 38 cylinders are shorter and the mag round is .100" longer to prevent this from turning them into grenades.
They wont be able to shut the cylinder.....
Shoot well

[bela]

Its very simple.
The .357 is built and - in Europe prooved - for a pressure about double so much as the .38 sp.

[Cee-Zed]

The old saw that ".357 is a waste in a short barrel" is one of those urban legends that had a basis in fact and lost its way somewhere along the way. Yes, it does do better, subtstantially better, than most .38 +P. No, it does not do anything like the same load in a 5" barrel. Relatively speaking, .357 does not develop its true potential in a J frame, but every lit bit can help in a defensive handgun.

.357 in a J frame is NO FUN to shoot, and people try to justify not shooting it when they find out!

As I just mentioned in another thread, my real beef with a .357 used as a multi-caliber gun is that you are darn lucky if it groups well with .38 +P. No .357 groups well with all three loads. Also, the ones that group well with lil' ol' .38 Special really do poorly with .357, at least in my limited experience. I hate to see people spend money on a new .357 (using the 3 loads in 1 justification), when they could have had two (or maybe more) used revovlers for the price. OTOH, good luck finding a used J frame. People just don't part with them around here.

[BigG]

Bought a like new Sc 360 for $400. Included with the pristine revo was a box of 45 357 mag 158 gr cartridges...

If you are a seasoned pistoleer, you will appreciate the significant increase in power of the 357, and no, the recoil is not as bad as you read about here and in the coffee table magazines.

The concern about losing your hearing in the event of self defense is probably unfounded for at least two reasons:

1) Your increased level of awareness from adrenaline (fight or flight) tends to shut down your hearing. You probably won't even hear the gun go off.

2) If you are truly in a life or death situation would you rather be dead than to undergo possible hearing loss?

[Brasso]

Not hearing a shot during a confrontation is more a neurological phenomenon than a physical one. Just because your brain chooses to tune it out does not mean the physical damage is not done.

However, I agree with you that hearing loss is secondary to being alive, and choose to carry .357's in my .357's, except for my 340pd. It's just too light.

[Ben Shepherd]

I admit horrendous was a slight overstatement about recoil.

Here's a good desription (I think):

A superlight snubbie; i.e. 12 or 16 oz., kicks like a 300win. mag, sharp and hard.
A big mag; i.e. 454 super redhawk, kicks like a 31/2" 12 gauge mag load, still hard, but more of a push than a smack.

This make sense?

[vulcan]

Given a choice, I'd always get the .357 . My wife can shoot them with .38s & work her way up to the .357 loads. For defense I like 2 .357 glasers followed by silvertips. I find these loads quite controllable in my S&W 649.

[Blackhawk]

This make sense?

It does, Ben. Good description.

[joeoim]

That's good advice to buy the 357. Then you can be assured you can shoot what you find works best for you. If you handload you can play around and it's surprising how accurate you can get. When you find a load that works best stay with it. That's all I shoot or practice with. (tho I usually have a stash of 357s loaded to the hilt in another pocket for emergencys) I find I shoot better if I don't practice with lighter loads. Experment all you can and shoot all you can afford.

[Big Bad .45 Wolf]

The accuracy argument is kinds moot when it comes to J-frames. The gun is not designed to provide tight groups at 15 yards. The J-frames are a save your bacon at close ranges gun. Well over 90% of SD shootings occur at ranges under 20 ft. the majority of that 90+% occur at distances under 10 ft. so were talking 3-5 steps away. Even beginners can hit the middle of the chest at those type of distances.

As far as recoil if your involved in a scenario where you or your families life is in immanent danger and your about to act then adrenaline takes over and you will not notice the extra recoil.

As far as the performance of a .38+p vs. a .357, the 2 rounds who awesome street record that will never be disputed as "the ultimate man stoppers" are the .45 and the .357 Magnum. The .38+p is a good round but whether it being fired from a 2 inch bbl. or a 6 inch bbl it will not achieve enough velocity or energy to expand. The .357 Mag from a 2 inch bbl. is neutered, but expansion is still reliable and velocity and energy is still much higher than a .38's.