Russians to bury dead Chechens wrapped in pig skin

Glock-A-Roo · October 31, 2002, 12:59 PM

Wow, those Russians don't mess around.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=32749

08:07 Oct-31-02, 25 Cheshvan 5763

Chechen Terrorists to be Buried in Pigskin

According to the Moskovski Komsomol newspaper, Russian security forces have decided to bury the terrorists from last's week's hostage siege wrapped in pig's skin. The aim is to deter potential Islamic terrorists from future attacks.

Shahidi (Jihad martyrs) believe by their nefarious acts that they ascend immediately to heaven. Using their beliefs against them, wrapping their corpses in 'unclean' pigskin prevents them from entering heaven for eternity.

BigG · October 31, 2002, 01:01 PM

Serves em right. As good an example of pyschological warfare as I can think of.

**pax** · October 31, 2002, 01:10 PM

*blink*

They're actually going to do it???

It's not an internet rumor?

pax

BJordan71 · October 31, 2002, 01:14 PM

Blackjack Pershing is smiling.

Stay safe.

Libertarian · October 31, 2002, 01:38 PM

Now that is truly funny!

Seeker · October 31, 2002, 01:48 PM

'Spose after that the Chechens will never fight against the Russians again and will probably start providing the Russians in Chechnya with hot chocolate and cookies.

One of the best reasons not to torture POWs is because you don't want your own people that become POWs tortured. I wonder if there is a parallel here?

I predict this doesn't play well with the Chechens.

Joe Demko · October 31, 2002, 01:53 PM

It won't have much effect. The Chechens will consider it as just one more Russian atrocity against their people and religion.
Unless you are willing to be utterly ruthless, brutal and lacking in humanity, it isn't possible to terrorize a people into submission. The various ethnic groups of that part of the world have shown that they are capable of holding grudges for centuries. This will become a part of that grudge.

**Marko Kloos** · October 31, 2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Unless you are willing to be utterly ruthless, brutal and lacking in humanity, it isn't possible to terrorize a people into submission.

Scratch everything before "it". Even the Nazis, concentration camps and all, never managed to eradicate any and all resistance. Even the Warsaw Jews struck back at the Germans, rather than face quiet eradication.

BigG · October 31, 2002, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Unless you are willing to be utterly ruthless, brutal and lacking in humanity...

You mean the Russians haven't demonstrated that already? Seems like they don't mind losing a few comrades to "friendly fire," to me.

MuzzleBlast · October 31, 2002, 02:04 PM

At the risk of seeming squeamish, I am a bit disturbed that they would actually do something like this. All this does is compound a tragedy.
War sucks.

buzz_knox · October 31, 2002, 02:06 PM

Back in the '80s, some Russian citizens were kidnapped and murdered in Beirut. Soviet forces tracked down the kidnappers and their families, and exterminated them. Russian nationals were not molested again. Brutal and not something I'd ever condone (going after the families), but it worked.

Joe Demko · October 31, 2002, 02:12 PM

That Beirut story has been making the rounds since the '80's but I've yet to see any documentation of it.
In retrospect, I was incorrect in how I phrased my first post. You can't terrorize a people into submission. You must exterminate them, assimilate them, or learn to live with them. The first two don't appear to be options for the Russkis in this case.

Bottom Gun · October 31, 2002, 02:16 PM

I think it's a great idea. It's about time somebody hit these wackos where it hurts.

The next terrorists might not be so eager if they know this is what they have to look forward to if they fail.

Russ · October 31, 2002, 02:20 PM

I have thought for some time that that is what the U.S. should have done to the charred remains of the 9/11 murderers, assuming they found any. I guess it wouldn't be politically correct.

The Russians do not mess around and retaliate with great brutality. What Buzz said is true. Not only did they exterminate them, they mutilated their bodies to send a message. I think they went overboard big time but it did work to deter future acts by Middle Eastern terrorists. I don't think it will have much effect on the Chechens. Many of them have grown up with war and taking lives to some of them is like you or I brushing our teeth.

Khornet · October 31, 2002, 02:56 PM

They way to handle those who kill for Allah is to cut them off from Him.

BigG · October 31, 2002, 03:39 PM

Maybe the way to handle this Al Quaeda thing is to let it leak out that we a blowing 5000 lb pig fat bombs over Afghanistan - which our government could quickly deny.

I know I would make it known I was greasing my bullets and bayonets with lard.

Yanus · October 31, 2002, 03:47 PM

Ditto on the above observations about the Russians. They are ruthless people when provoked. Just ask any German survivors of the Russian POW camps in WWII.

It would not surprise me that the Russian military decides to retaliate by using chemical weapons. The Soviets wrote the book on chemical warfare. The Russian bear is getting ready to flex its muscles........

Yanus

kjm · October 31, 2002, 03:48 PM

I've always thought that we should apholster the pilot and co-pilot seats in pigskin on all airliners but the very few flown by muslims.

Of course, the belief that God will care what is done to your corpse after death is proof that the average believer is ignorant of their own religion much like the average Christian believes that going to church is something that is required for salvation.

The reason this is important to note is that Islam has been hijacked, and we are seeing the result just the same as we saw Christianity get hijacked by the popes in the dark ages. Eventually things got straightened out, but good lord- the abuses are well documented.

Maybe they aren't so different than we are. After all, most of our population doesn't do their own thinking either.

To keep it all gun related, do the chechens still use 7.62X39 or have they moved up to 5.45?

Bulldozer · October 31, 2002, 04:10 PM

Recall your colonial history folks. A huge, murderous mutiny erupted in India over a similar practice.

If I recall rightly, many hundreds slain in the uproar.

Oris · October 31, 2002, 04:24 PM

"Pigskin" funeral is a newspaper joke.
Bodies of Chechen bandits will be simply burned.

Khornet · October 31, 2002, 04:55 PM

AKA The Mutiny....I think the inciting event (as opposed to the long history of grievances which led up to it) was a rumor that the new Army issue cartridge (Snyder?), which was paper-patched, was lubricated with animal fat, a mortal offense to Hindus.

vulcan · October 31, 2002, 05:36 PM

Brutality is not exclusive to Russia, I recalled that in China, When dissidents are excecuted, Their families receive a bill for the excecution cartridge.

glock glockler · October 31, 2002, 05:50 PM

The various ethnic groups of that part of the world have shown that they are capable of holding grudges for centuries. This will become a part of that grudge.

You're assuming they'll be alive for a while.

Russ · October 31, 2002, 05:55 PM

I know a guy that was a POW of the Germans in WWII. He's pretty old now but at the end of the war, he said the Russians took alot of U.S. POW's from the Germans and they were never heard from again. He said he and a couple of others escaped before he could be taken by the Russians. Some German civilians
helped them to get back to American lines. I guess they hated the Russians more than the Americans.

Halo · October 31, 2002, 06:14 PM

Quote:

I guess they hated the Russians more than the Americans.

Definitely so. Despite being enemies, there was a sense of respect for the British and Americans as being something like misguided cousins. The Russians on the other hand were considered grossly inferior, and the war on that front had an entirely different tone. At any rate, it was certainly preferable among Germans to surrender to the Americans or British. Moving as many people as possible to the American and British zones, away from the Russian advance, was probably the primary concern of Doenitz (who was technically the last leader of national socialist Germany). The Russian advance was utterly brutal toward Germans in its path, whether military personnel or civilians. Maybe some of that is just the way Russians wage war, but certainly a lot of it was due to the fresh memories of the German advance into Russia a few years prior.

October 31, 2002, 12:59 PM	#1
Glock-A-Roo Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2000 Posts: 119	Russians to bury dead Chechens wrapped in pig skin Wow, those Russians don't mess around. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=32749 08:07 Oct-31-02, 25 Cheshvan 5763 Chechen Terrorists to be Buried in Pigskin According to the Moskovski Komsomol newspaper, Russian security forces have decided to bury the terrorists from last's week's hostage siege wrapped in pig's skin. The aim is to deter potential Islamic terrorists from future attacks. Shahidi (Jihad martyrs) believe by their nefarious acts that they ascend immediately to heaven. Using their beliefs against them, wrapping their corpses in 'unclean' pigskin prevents them from entering heaven for eternity.

October 31, 2002, 01:01 PM	#2
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,255	Serves em right. As good an example of pyschological warfare as I can think of. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

October 31, 2002, 01:10 PM	#3
pax Staff Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: Washington state Posts: 4,626	blink They're actually going to do it??? It's not an internet rumor? pax __________________ Kathy Jackson Managing Editor, Concealed Carry Magazine My personal website: Cornered Cat Buy my book! Lessons from Armed America, with Mark Walters

October 31, 2002, 01:14 PM	#4
BJordan71 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2001 Location: Heart of Georgia Posts: 110	Blackjack Pershing is smiling. Stay safe. __________________ Boy, you're about as useful as a Glock revolver. TFL#12525

October 31, 2002, 01:38 PM	#5
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,123	Now that is truly funny! __________________ "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." JFK My other favorite forum is The Armed Citizen My PGP key is 0x780B7C0A

October 31, 2002, 01:48 PM	#6
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,369	'Spose after that the Chechens will never fight against the Russians again and will probably start providing the Russians in Chechnya with hot chocolate and cookies. One of the best reasons not to torture POWs is because you don't want your own people that become POWs tortured. I wonder if there is a parallel here? I predict this doesn't play well with the Chechens. __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

October 31, 2002, 01:53 PM	#7
Joe Demko Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2000 Posts: 1,088	It won't have much effect. The Chechens will consider it as just one more Russian atrocity against their people and religion. Unless you are willing to be utterly ruthless, brutal and lacking in humanity, it isn't possible to terrorize a people into submission. The various ethnic groups of that part of the world have shown that they are capable of holding grudges for centuries. This will become a part of that grudge. __________________ "No honest man needs a handgun smaller than a canned ham." Bill Ruger

October 31, 2002, 02:04 PM	#10
MuzzleBlast Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2001 Location: Arkansas. Much better place since Bill and Hillary went home. Posts: 945	At the risk of seeming squeamish, I am a bit disturbed that they would actually do something like this. All this does is compound a tragedy. War sucks. __________________ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArkansasShooters/ Molwn labe!

October 31, 2002, 02:06 PM	#11
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,194	Back in the '80s, some Russian citizens were kidnapped and murdered in Beirut. Soviet forces tracked down the kidnappers and their families, and exterminated them. Russian nationals were not molested again. Brutal and not something I'd ever condone (going after the families), but it worked.

October 31, 2002, 02:12 PM	#12
Joe Demko Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2000 Posts: 1,088	That Beirut story has been making the rounds since the '80's but I've yet to see any documentation of it. In retrospect, I was incorrect in how I phrased my first post. You can't terrorize a people into submission. You must exterminate them, assimilate them, or learn to live with them. The first two don't appear to be options for the Russkis in this case. __________________ "No honest man needs a handgun smaller than a canned ham." Bill Ruger

October 31, 2002, 02:16 PM	#13
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Elgin, Arizona Posts: 853	I think it's a great idea. It's about time somebody hit these wackos where it hurts. The next terrorists might not be so eager if they know this is what they have to look forward to if they fail.

October 31, 2002, 02:20 PM	#14
Russ Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Kentucky, Refugee from California Posts: 1,097	I have thought for some time that that is what the U.S. should have done to the charred remains of the 9/11 murderers, assuming they found any. I guess it wouldn't be politically correct. The Russians do not mess around and retaliate with great brutality. What Buzz said is true. Not only did they exterminate them, they mutilated their bodies to send a message. I think they went overboard big time but it did work to deter future acts by Middle Eastern terrorists. I don't think it will have much effect on the Chechens. Many of them have grown up with war and taking lives to some of them is like you or I brushing our teeth.

October 31, 2002, 02:56 PM	#15
Khornet Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 585	They deserve it. They way to handle those who kill for Allah is to cut them off from Him. __________________ The M1 does MY talking!

October 31, 2002, 03:39 PM	#16
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,255	Maybe the way to handle this Al Quaeda thing is to let it leak out that we a blowing 5000 lb pig fat bombs over Afghanistan - which our government could quickly deny. I know I would make it known I was greasing my bullets and bayonets with lard. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

October 31, 2002, 03:47 PM	#17
Yanus Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 1999 Location: Nowherespecial, TX Posts: 435	Ditto on the above observations about the Russians. They are ruthless people when provoked. Just ask any German survivors of the Russian POW camps in WWII. It would not surprise me that the Russian military decides to retaliate by using chemical weapons. The Soviets wrote the book on chemical warfare. The Russian bear is getting ready to flex its muscles........ Yanus __________________ Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli "Stay alive with a 45" "Keep America Beautiful, plant a terrorist!"

October 31, 2002, 03:48 PM	#18
kjm Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 1,880	I've always thought that we should apholster the pilot and co-pilot seats in pigskin on all airliners but the very few flown by muslims. Of course, the belief that God will care what is done to your corpse after death is proof that the average believer is ignorant of their own religion much like the average Christian believes that going to church is something that is required for salvation. The reason this is important to note is that Islam has been hijacked, and we are seeing the result just the same as we saw Christianity get hijacked by the popes in the dark ages. Eventually things got straightened out, but good lord- the abuses are well documented. Maybe they aren't so different than we are. After all, most of our population doesn't do their own thinking either. To keep it all gun related, do the chechens still use 7.62X39 or have they moved up to 5.45? __________________ COME AND TAKE IT!!!

October 31, 2002, 04:10 PM	#19
Bulldozer Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 415	Sepoy Rebellion in India Recall your colonial history folks. A huge, murderous mutiny erupted in India over a similar practice. If I recall rightly, many hundreds slain in the uproar. __________________ There are three things in this life that make me smile ear to ear -- Mastiffs, Magnums, and Merlots. Don't try to take any of them from me.

October 31, 2002, 04:24 PM	#20
Oris Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Posts: 566	"Pigskin" funeral is a newspaper joke. Bodies of Chechen bandits will be simply burned.

October 31, 2002, 04:55 PM	#21
Khornet Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 585	Sepoy rebellion AKA The Mutiny....I think the inciting event (as opposed to the long history of grievances which led up to it) was a rumor that the new Army issue cartridge (Snyder?), which was paper-patched, was lubricated with animal fat, a mortal offense to Hindus. __________________ The M1 does MY talking!

October 31, 2002, 05:36 PM	#22
vulcan Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2002 Posts: 265	Brutality is not exclusive to Russia, I recalled that in China, When dissidents are excecuted, Their families receive a bill for the excecution cartridge.

October 31, 2002, 05:50 PM	#23
glock glockler Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2000 Location: Portsmouth, NH, USA Posts: 908	The various ethnic groups of that part of the world have shown that they are capable of holding grudges for centuries. This will become a part of that grudge. You're assuming they'll be alive for a while. __________________ "It does not take a majority to prevail...but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." -Samuel Adams "Give me ten Jesuits and I shall conquer the world" -Stalin

October 31, 2002, 05:55 PM	#24
Russ Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Kentucky, Refugee from California Posts: 1,097	I know a guy that was a POW of the Germans in WWII. He's pretty old now but at the end of the war, he said the Russians took alot of U.S. POW's from the Germans and they were never heard from again. He said he and a couple of others escaped before he could be taken by the Russians. Some German civilians helped them to get back to American lines. I guess they hated the Russians more than the Americans.