45-70 wound pics

super cub · November 4, 2002, 06:48 PM

Here is what a 45-70 at about 30 yards will do to a whitetail deer. I believe my hunting buddy was using a 400 grain Buffalo Bore cartridge in his Marlin 1895. I'm attempting to post entry and exit wound pics; it was a full penetration. The hunting knife is pointing to the exit wound.

super cub · November 4, 2002, 07:15 PM

Maybe this is it: the entry wound from the 45-70, just for comparison to my previous post of an exit wound. If I failed to mention it, the deer dropped immediately. This has been the case with all my buddy's other kills with this rifle. The deer have been large bucks, standing at rest.

**Art Eatman** · November 4, 2002, 07:43 PM

"...dropped immediately." From looking at that exit wound, I'd expect so!

, Art

Southla1 · November 5, 2002, 09:24 AM

The good part about it is from what I can see the only meat damaged and bloodshot is rib cage..............looks like the good stuff came through undamaged.....................MAMA GET OUT THE POT!

Marshall · November 5, 2002, 01:54 PM

Now that's what I call an anchoring load. I shot a 350 pound bear with my .458 using 350gr Speer with a reduced load and I could run my arm all they way through the the animal..
I love those big bore rifles!

eroyd · November 5, 2002, 02:13 PM

I recently took a fairly large mule deer with a 45-70 and was very surprised by the large amount of meat damage. It was not what I had expected from a fairly low velocity cartridge.

I was using 350 soft point round nose at a velocity of @ 1800 fps.
The shot was at about 40 meters. The particular bullet is rated in the mfg's manual for up to 2800 fps.

The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, plowed through both lungs but above the heart and then smashed through the far shoulder. The bullet was recovered just under the skin fairly high on the left shoulder. The bullet core had completely separated from the jacket though they both were recovered from the same spot. The deer ran about 25m's after being hit.

Most of the left shoulder meat was "jellified" and the trauma was visible in some places from the neck to mid body.

Maybe I just got a defective bullet.

ckurts · November 5, 2002, 02:49 PM

Glad you put that knife tip in the picture or I'd have never seen that little old pinhole

!

I've used a bolt action .25-06 for the last 10 years out in west Texas, but recently I've been considering a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 for hunting the woods up in east Texas at my new lease. Never thought I'd say this, but it might just be too much gun. Thinking about .30-30 or .44 magnum now.

kdubya · November 5, 2002, 06:40 PM

Elmer Keith would'a told ya' there's no such thing as "too much gun"!

For more years than I care to relate, I believed in the small bullet going fast was the ultimate answer. Recently, bought my first 45-70 in a Marlin 1895LTD and plan on taking it after mule deer next week. Guess age and sentimental yearnings have caught up with me - now I believe a heavy bullet at moderate velocity and reasonable range is the answer!

To tell the truth, I've lately been coveting the new Winchester Model 95 in its .405 caliber with spitzer bullets. Maybe I can sneak it in without the wife noticing!!!!

Marshall · November 6, 2002, 02:10 PM

It makes me happy

when I read of another big bore convert. I to was once a velocity fan, until I started hunting dangerous game and realized how devasting a big bullet at modest velocity can be.
I wonder if eroyd was using a Hornady 350gr roundnose. I have not been impressed with their bullets ability to hold together. I have however, had good performance with Speers 350gr HotCore in my .458.
There are also some excellent .45 cal. hard cast bullets that are great for deer. They reduce meat damage to a minimum.
Trying different calibers and firearms is sure fun.

eroyd · November 6, 2002, 03:10 PM

Good guess, it was a Hornady but I didn't want to mention any names for my 45-70 experience is only based on that one kill.

My reasoning for converting to the big bore was similar to others I guess. I've up until now used a hi-velocity 300 Wby. and have found that even with premium bullets there is horrific damage done to meat when game is shot at short range. Especially if any bone is hit. I took one moose a few seasons back at about 20 yards and after skinning found an entry hole the size of a grapefruit and the exit even larger. I had hoped, and was under the impression that the 45 would plow through making a deep, slightly plus cal. wound without all that "shock" trauma.

I'm going to try a 405 grain Remington bullet and maybe even experiment with cast.

brownlow · November 6, 2002, 04:15 PM

That is certainly a heck of a hole! Nice shot.

How big was the deer, btw?

WGBV

eroyd · November 6, 2002, 05:04 PM

I posted the deer picture I shot with the 45-70 under the "Big Six Point" thread. Maybe I'll whip out this weekend and blast a smaller Blacktail or a bear with the same rifle and document the results. . . . . with a little luck of course.

cratz2 · November 6, 2002, 06:39 PM

Neat pics...

I promise that if I ever get shot from a 400 grain Buffalo Bore cartridge out of your friend's Marlin 1895, I will drop immediately as well.

ReadyOnTheRight · November 6, 2002, 06:53 PM

Nice pics and a great hunting story. I'm a big bore pistol guy so I'll probably try a big bore rifle someday.

Quote:

...the deer dropped immediately...

Are you sure the deer didn't go airborne for a while?

super cub · November 6, 2002, 07:46 PM

Deer only go "airborne" on Christmas Eve, as far as I know!! We are hunting again next week, so maybe we will have more pics to post.

kdubya · November 6, 2002, 09:10 PM

Geeez -

Sorry to hear you were using Hornady 350 RN's - that's the bullet I've got loaded up for my 1895LDT for next week! At 2160 MV, it's printing 5 shots into 1.25" group, 2.5" hi at 100 yds. Hope to anchor a muley buck somewhere between muzzle and 150 yds.

This still isn't as bad as the last Coues Whitetail I shot a couple years ago with my 7 mm Dakota. Blew it off its feet at over 250 yds with a 175 gr Remington Core-Loc. Off shoulder was kept on the carcass by the skin only. Already had one deer from another hunt in the freezer, so donated this one to the ranch's vaquero's to supplement their larder. They really didn't mind the mangled shoulder as they were gonna make tacos and enchillidas out of it, anyway.

cobb · November 7, 2002, 08:12 AM

I thought the Hornady 350 gr. round nose was suppose to hold together better that factory fodder and other bullets. So, that is what I have loaded up and was planning to use on Black Bears. Now it sounds like it might not be a good idea.

Marshall · November 7, 2002, 12:18 PM

Concerning Hornady bullets. This is my personal experience and is not intended to be a condemnation of Hornady, as others may have had different experiences. I have found that the lead turns powdery and the jacket comes apart when they hit a hard object, like heavy bone. The interlocking ring in Hornadys' bullets don't seem to do anything. I have never recovered one that had the traditional mushroom shape like I get with Core-Lokt or premium bullets. In my opinion Speer makes a better non-premium bullet in their HotCore series. I have had good success with them on black bear. However, I use only premium bullets on more dangerous game(In Alaska and Africa).
I also recommend hard cast lead bullets for black bear and deer. I'm not sure, but I think Buffalo Bore offers them in 45-70. You might check that out.
Anyway, file all this in the "for what it's worth" box.

Good hunting to you.

eroyd · November 8, 2002, 12:57 PM

Just thought I'd add a picture of the bullet I recovered from a deer. I hate to think what could of happened if I'd of shot a large moose (my intended prey) in a boney section. Besides, I can't stop playing with my new camera.
It's not my intention to put down these bullets. This is just one bullet from one animal in one senario. My previous experience with Hornady bullets is pretty good. There 308 180gr spire pt. flat base has served me well in 30 06 velocities.

kdubya · November 8, 2002, 06:50 PM

I, too, have always had good luck with the Hornady bullets in the past. Any of their flat base bullets in .264, .284 and .308 have performed flawlessly for me. That's why I just naturally chose the 350 RN for the .458 caliber. Well, hopefully, I'll have a chance to find out for myself how they perform on mule deer next week. Wish me luck!

November 4, 2002, 07:43 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX, USA Posts: 16,803	"...dropped immediately." From looking at that exit wound, I'd expect so! , Art __________________ "You're from BATFE? Hey, great! I use all your fine products!"

November 5, 2002, 09:24 AM	#4
Southla1 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2000 Location: Jeanerette, La. Near the Heart of the great Atchafalaya Basin Swamp Posts: 1,999	The good part about it is from what I can see the only meat damaged and bloodshot is rib cage..............looks like the good stuff came through undamaged.....................MAMA GET OUT THE POT! __________________ Carlyle Hebert Molon labe!!

November 5, 2002, 01:54 PM	#5
Marshall Member Join Date: August 27, 2001 Location: I live in a small bush community in southeast Alaska called Gustavus Posts: 98	45 cal. Now that's what I call an anchoring load. I shot a 350 pound bear with my .458 using 350gr Speer with a reduced load and I could run my arm all they way through the the animal.. I love those big bore rifles! __________________ marshall

November 5, 2002, 06:40 PM	#8
kdubya Member Join Date: September 24, 2002 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 62	Elmer Keith would'a told ya' there's no such thing as "too much gun"! For more years than I care to relate, I believed in the small bullet going fast was the ultimate answer. Recently, bought my first 45-70 in a Marlin 1895LTD and plan on taking it after mule deer next week. Guess age and sentimental yearnings have caught up with me - now I believe a heavy bullet at moderate velocity and reasonable range is the answer! To tell the truth, I've lately been coveting the new Winchester Model 95 in its .405 caliber with spitzer bullets. Maybe I can sneak it in without the wife noticing!!!! __________________ Keep off the Ridgeline

November 6, 2002, 02:10 PM	#9
Marshall Member Join Date: August 27, 2001 Location: I live in a small bush community in southeast Alaska called Gustavus Posts: 98	Big Bores It makes me happy when I read of another big bore convert. I to was once a velocity fan, until I started hunting dangerous game and realized how devasting a big bullet at modest velocity can be. I wonder if eroyd was using a Hornady 350gr roundnose. I have not been impressed with their bullets ability to hold together. I have however, had good performance with Speers 350gr HotCore in my .458. There are also some excellent .45 cal. hard cast bullets that are great for deer. They reduce meat damage to a minimum. Trying different calibers and firearms is sure fun. __________________ marshall

November 5, 2002, 02:13 PM	#6
eroyd Member Join Date: September 13, 2002 Location: british columbia, canada Posts: 81	I recently took a fairly large mule deer with a 45-70 and was very surprised by the large amount of meat damage. It was not what I had expected from a fairly low velocity cartridge. I was using 350 soft point round nose at a velocity of @ 1800 fps. The shot was at about 40 meters. The particular bullet is rated in the mfg's manual for up to 2800 fps. The bullet entered just behind the right shoulder, plowed through both lungs but above the heart and then smashed through the far shoulder. The bullet was recovered just under the skin fairly high on the left shoulder. The bullet core had completely separated from the jacket though they both were recovered from the same spot. The deer ran about 25m's after being hit. Most of the left shoulder meat was "jellified" and the trauma was visible in some places from the neck to mid body. Maybe I just got a defective bullet.

November 5, 2002, 02:49 PM	#7
ckurts Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 476	Glad you put that knife tip in the picture or I'd have never seen that little old pinhole ! I've used a bolt action .25-06 for the last 10 years out in west Texas, but recently I've been considering a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 for hunting the woods up in east Texas at my new lease. Never thought I'd say this, but it might just be too much gun. Thinking about .30-30 or .44 magnum now.

November 6, 2002, 03:10 PM	#10
eroyd Member Join Date: September 13, 2002 Location: british columbia, canada Posts: 81	Good guess, it was a Hornady but I didn't want to mention any names for my 45-70 experience is only based on that one kill. My reasoning for converting to the big bore was similar to others I guess. I've up until now used a hi-velocity 300 Wby. and have found that even with premium bullets there is horrific damage done to meat when game is shot at short range. Especially if any bone is hit. I took one moose a few seasons back at about 20 yards and after skinning found an entry hole the size of a grapefruit and the exit even larger. I had hoped, and was under the impression that the 45 would plow through making a deep, slightly plus cal. wound without all that "shock" trauma. I'm going to try a 405 grain Remington bullet and maybe even experiment with cast.

November 6, 2002, 04:15 PM	#11
brownlow Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2002 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 117	That is certainly a heck of a hole! Nice shot. How big was the deer, btw? WGBV __________________ Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you. -Pericles

November 6, 2002, 05:04 PM	#12
eroyd Member Join Date: September 13, 2002 Location: british columbia, canada Posts: 81	I posted the deer picture I shot with the 45-70 under the "Big Six Point" thread. Maybe I'll whip out this weekend and blast a smaller Blacktail or a bear with the same rifle and document the results. . . . . with a little luck of course.

November 6, 2002, 06:39 PM	#13
cratz2 Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2002 Location: Indy, IN Posts: 340	Neat pics... I promise that if I ever get shot from a 400 grain Buffalo Bore cartridge out of your friend's Marlin 1895, I will drop immediately as well. __________________ PhotoAlbum

November 6, 2002, 07:46 PM	#15
super cub Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Posts: 66	Thanks for the replies Deer only go "airborne" on Christmas Eve, as far as I know!! We are hunting again next week, so maybe we will have more pics to post. __________________ The classy course of action is always proper.

November 6, 2002, 09:10 PM	#16
kdubya Member Join Date: September 24, 2002 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 62	Geeez - Sorry to hear you were using Hornady 350 RN's - that's the bullet I've got loaded up for my 1895LDT for next week! At 2160 MV, it's printing 5 shots into 1.25" group, 2.5" hi at 100 yds. Hope to anchor a muley buck somewhere between muzzle and 150 yds. This still isn't as bad as the last Coues Whitetail I shot a couple years ago with my 7 mm Dakota. Blew it off its feet at over 250 yds with a 175 gr Remington Core-Loc. Off shoulder was kept on the carcass by the skin only. Already had one deer from another hunt in the freezer, so donated this one to the ranch's vaquero's to supplement their larder. They really didn't mind the mangled shoulder as they were gonna make tacos and enchillidas out of it, anyway. __________________ Keep off the Ridgeline

November 7, 2002, 08:12 AM	#17
cobb Member Join Date: June 10, 2002 Location: S. MN. Posts: 15	I thought the Hornady 350 gr. round nose was suppose to hold together better that factory fodder and other bullets. So, that is what I have loaded up and was planning to use on Black Bears. Now it sounds like it might not be a good idea. __________________ RIVER VALLEY TRAINING - Mankato, MN. - DPS/BCA approved training organization. NRA & UTAH certified instructor. www.RiverValleyTraining.com

November 7, 2002, 12:18 PM	#18
Marshall Member Join Date: August 27, 2001 Location: I live in a small bush community in southeast Alaska called Gustavus Posts: 98	Hornady bullets Concerning Hornady bullets. This is my personal experience and is not intended to be a condemnation of Hornady, as others may have had different experiences. I have found that the lead turns powdery and the jacket comes apart when they hit a hard object, like heavy bone. The interlocking ring in Hornadys' bullets don't seem to do anything. I have never recovered one that had the traditional mushroom shape like I get with Core-Lokt or premium bullets. In my opinion Speer makes a better non-premium bullet in their HotCore series. I have had good success with them on black bear. However, I use only premium bullets on more dangerous game(In Alaska and Africa). I also recommend hard cast lead bullets for black bear and deer. I'm not sure, but I think Buffalo Bore offers them in 45-70. You might check that out. Anyway, file all this in the "for what it's worth" box. Good hunting to you. __________________ marshall

November 8, 2002, 06:50 PM	#20
kdubya Member Join Date: September 24, 2002 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 62	I, too, have always had good luck with the Hornady bullets in the past. Any of their flat base bullets in .264, .284 and .308 have performed flawlessly for me. That's why I just naturally chose the 350 RN for the .458 caliber. Well, hopefully, I'll have a chance to find out for myself how they perform on mule deer next week. Wish me luck! __________________ Keep off the Ridgeline