S&W Sigma .40 LNIB $175

[CopeLC]

I know a guy that wants to sell his Sigma. His wife says he has too many guns. It's the two tone stainless slide in .40 S&W and he only wants $175 for it.

It has two 10 round mags and he's throwing in a holster. I took a look at it and it looks unfired. The guy's a gun nut and he has so many guns he cannot possibly keep up after them all.

I've searched and read just about every previous thread about the Sigmas and it seems like it's a mixed match of Glock fans flaming the Sigma over the lawsuit.

I don't know how much of the unreliability issues posted are factual or just flaming the pistol because it's a knock off of the Glock.

I like the grip angle of the Sigma better than the Glock. Plus, I can reach the mag release on the Sigma, as opposed to the Glock. I naturally index the front sight of a Glock too high anyway and the Sigma went right to point of aim like my Kimber.

Is there anyone out there that has a REAL opinion, rather than what they've heard? I'm talking REAL experience from ownership or carrying as an issue weapon from their PD.

[gunrunner]

if you dont want it , i will take it . thats a good price and its a good gun. falls in the Mediorce class but that price its a winner.

[Abominable No-Man]

I've had three of them since they were first introduced, and I think they are actually pretty good. The trigger isn't so good sometimes. That's about the only place they can be faulted. I don't know where all of the flaming comes from. I'm sure there are some bad ones around, but mine never failed to fire or feed or eject.

I just don't dig polymer-framed guns (I've had a Glock, too, and couldn't warm up to it either), no matter who makes it. (I like Smith and Wesson, too; must be something in my head that screams "It ain't right unless it's wood and steel!". I've been about a heartbeat away from flipping out the cash for a Bushmaster M17 for about four months now, so it's not just pistols that make me do it, either.....) The price is great, especially if it's never been fired.

[SouthpawShootr]

Most of the reliabliity issues were with early guns. If the grip area is checkered around where the S&W logos are, then it's a newer model and it should be alright. They're not as nice as the Glocks, but the single example I have (It's a .357 Sig and I bought it b/c it was an uncataloged oddball) has been really good. Only issue I have was the mag release broke. Sent it back and got the gun back repaired 2 weeks later. Still, S&W is backing the warranty on these guns, so if you have any trouble, send it back and they'll fix it. The .40s had 15 round pre-bans available and you still see them on www.gunbroker.com for reasonable prices. Good package. Size seems to be somewhere between Glock 22 and 23. I'd say, if you like it, the price is good. I would buy it.

[Tamara]

Other than the wretched triggers, they're better pistols than most folks give them credit for. They might be somewhat less durable than a Glock, but most folks find them to be more comfortable in the hand. The price on them is definitely right, too.

[Te Anau]

Im anxiously awaiting my new 9mm Sigma which I should be able to pick up tomorrow.If it has the accessory rail at the front of the frame its an enhanced version.Looking for that and the checkered grip as someone else said will clue you in.I personally would not get the older version.By the way,I dont plan on spending a fortune on normal capacity mags,but if the ban sunsets what capacity mags will be available for the 9mm?

[Tamara]

By the way,I dont plan on spending a fortune on normal capacity mags,but if the ban sunsets what capacity mags will be available for the 9mm?

I seem to recall that 9mm Sigma mags hold 16 or 17 rounds...

[Te Anau]

That would be great! I plan on using Speer gold dot 124gr +P,HP's in the first mag just to break it in with honor.

[SouthpawShootr]

The factory mags will probably run $40 (S&W regular retail for just about every other magazine they make) after the ban. You can find them for about $65-70 now pretty easily with the occasional $55 ad.

[CopeLC]

I appreciate all the heads up from you folks. I'm going to meet the guy at about 5:00 PM EST to purchase the firearm. For some reason, I do not recall if it had the grip checkering that you are talking about, SouthpawShootr and Te Anau. I wasn't aware of any need to look at different grip types. I thought they were all the same. I'll be sure to make note of it this time. It only came with post ban magazines, so it probably IS the later model.

Thank you for your advice. I have nothing but appreciation for you folks and this forum for giving this newbie advice. You all have been very informative with your comments. I'll let you know how everything goes.

[SouthpawShootr]

Coming with post-ban mags doesn't necessarily make it a new model. My .357 came with post-ban mags and it was the older frame. I don't think they changed the frames until after the ban.

Everybody else: Do you know what where the stamping is on LE mags?

Look at these over at Gunbroker. The price is really low for 9mm pre-bans. They are Sigma "pre-ban" mags, the pic is fuzzy, and I seem to remember that 5906 LE mags (my buddy's issue gun) has the LE stamping on the front. Take a look and tell me what you think (I don't have a Sigma 9mm, but may get one if I come across a good price).

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=19898120

[Jason Demond]

CDNN used to have new regular un-neutered mags for something like $69.99.
I have started to carry my 40VE fulltime again. There is just something I like about 16 rounds of Golden Sabers on tap.

[Majic]

I would check the manufactoring date by the serial number first. Some of the very early models were real dogs. We had 2 or 3 guys at the range that could never get theirs to work after the first couple of rounds when they first hit the market. Supposedly what ever was wrong with them has been corrected as that was many years ago.

[warhammer357]

I have handled and shot a lot of them, and to be honest, I cant figure out why they are not a lot more popular.
My girlfriend has one , and to be honest my Glock feels loose sloppy junk in comparison - smoother action, heavier but smoother trigger and easier cycling.
I think you found yourself a good deal....

[denfoote]

I cant figure out why they are not a lot more popular.

There were just enough bad apples in the barrel to spoil the whole bunch!!
That, and S&W kinda shot themselves in the foot with that "agreement"!!
The two combined to sully the reputation of the poor sigma!!

[CopeLC]

The pistol is a latter model. I ran the serial and it's the E, Enhanced model. The seller agreed to $175 and I'm picking it up tomorrow. I think I got it for a really good price. After FFL transfer fees, etc...it cost about as much as a Makarov, and it's .40 S&W as opposed to 9.18mm. Now, I have to learn a DAO trigger as opposed to my single action Kimber.

I get the original box and two 10 round mags. I'm going to wait until after Sept to get some high caps.

Once again, I really appreciate all your input. I'll let you know how it shoots. I did a function check and looked at it disassembled. I think it's going to be a nice shooter. Stay tuned for a range report.

[TxCop312]

My condolences. We had two PD issue Bitone 40 Sigmas come apart at the range. New model means diddly to me. I am the range master and firearms instructor for the PD. Our budget is tough to work with but we are petitioning for Glocks from the chief(I could go on and on). Those guns were in working order and well maintained. Both had gone back to S&W for problems before. Yours might be the exception to the rule. Myself and another officer fired another Sigma for function at the range and had no problems. I'd put at least 1000 round of CARRY ammo through it before relying on it. Just my thoughts as a rangemaster and firearms instructor for a police agency.

[MK688]

I recently purchased a Sigma Enhanced 9mm to throw in my gym bag. I took it to the range to shoot a couple of qualifications and get familiar with it. The trigger was so bad I thought the gun was broken and would not fire! I finally figured out you just have to pull the sh_t out of the trigger! I was able to shoot some decent scores with practice, but drawing one hand from 3 yards and firing center mass as fast as possible was a nightmare! It felt like it was misfiring! I also had 2 seasoned instructors shoot it and they agreed it may be the worst trigger pull ever installed on a pistol! Having said that, it never malfunctioned after about 200 rounds of various shooting positions and I have been told a trigger job or polishing will do a world of good. I sold the Sigma 2 days later and bought another Glock. I should have spent the extra money in the first place and got the better gun. You get what you pay for! And NO, I'm not a sigma basher or a Glock lover, but I have carried a gun for a living for almost 13 years now and have been involved in a lot. In that time, I found out what works in a stressful situation and a Glock is almost impossible to beat! But buy that Sigma and find out for yourself! It may be just what you are looking for! Or, maybe not! You never know until you try it!!!! MK688

[warhammer357]

Every maker is going to produce a sub standard peice every now and then.
Like I said, my GF has one and hers has a smoother double action pull than my Stainless Python. It has a lighter pull than any DA auto I own too. Every example I have handled is pretty much the same.
The pull is a LOT smoother than my HK USP for that matter.
Berettas are known for having smooth DA triggers. I own three. Two of them do indeed have smooth pulls. The third is as heavy and crunchy as any Smith auto I ever traded off.
If one Chevy, or one Ford, or one Colt or one Smith is substandard, that doesn't mean that all are faulty in general.

[CopeLC]

I busted out the snap caps and drew from a fobus and dry fired at the target I have taped to my wall in my bedroom. The trigger doesn't feel like everybody makes out. Either I have a good trigger or the squeeze is subjective. I just like how the trigger safety is the bottom half of the trigger and not some little pokey deal in the middle. I usually file my calluses off my right index finger so I have a better sense of touch. The Glock trigger gave me a heck of a blister.

Is it possible to buy a 9mm barrel and drop it in my Sigma?

[Jason Demond]

You would need a whole new slide, and you would probably need to change the ejector. It would be easier to change it to .357 Sig

[Hawgleg44]

When I first joined the PD and found out they issued Sigmas, I wasn't happy. I heard all the flaming and problems with them that I really didn't want to stake my life on one.

After taking mine out as soon as it was issued to me and putting 1000 rounds through it, I was very impressed. It was a first generation SW40F (yes, the ones with all the problems) and it never had any jams at all. I went through 7 qualificaitons with that dept and never witnessed a single FTF or FTE. I wish I had the option to purchase mine when I left, but I had to turn it in.

Since then, I've owned 4 other Sigmas personally. I still have 3 of them. The one I don't have anymore was an SW40V (2nd generation, pre-light rail). I bought it used and took it to the range. After shooting my first mag full through it, the front of the frame cracked. Not a problem. I just brought it back to Smith and they gave me a brand new Sigma in trade for it. Now, I have the basic .40 you have (SW40VE), the green framed one with the night sight (SW40G) and a full-size first generation SW9F.

If you post a WTB ad for Sigma hi-caps on the S&W forum, a guy sells them there new for $50 each.

There was a question posted about the LE restricted markings on the mags. You can't miss it, it takes up the whole side of the .40 cal mag and is laser engraved into my 9mm restricted mags.

I've never had a problem with the trigger pull on them. Spend a little time with it and get used to it. I've been thorugh a lot of training and have never shot less than 100% during qualification with it.

The new "Enhanced" series addressed many problems found in the earlier Sigmas. They put 90% of their time into making feeding and ejecting extremely reliable. They recut the feed ramp and lower the ejection port on the slide. They added the equipment rail to strengthen the front of the frame so the cracking issue is gone. And, they moved on from a loose tolerance rectangular striker firing system to a round high tolerance (.002") firing pin system. Still works the same, but doesn't break like the Glock 19's striker does.

Hey, I had Glocks before, too, but I ended up trading or selling them. The grip angle is uncomfortable, the .40 S&W's are known for blowing up (just happened in NH on a large dept- 3 in one day) and the striker system still breaks (ask NYPD about their Glock 19's). Their compact .45's jam with Winchester SXT ammo BAD! A large dept near me just traded their Sigmas for .45 Glocks. 50% of the compact Glocks jammed extensively on the first training day. So much that they had to get Glock armorers there to attempt to fix the problem.

Now, before everyone starts jumping on me, I'm not flaming Glocks. I'm just using this to show that no gun is perfect. And, not everyone likes a particular gun, no matter how much they are written about in the gun mags.

[CopeLC]

I love you, Hawgleg44, even though I'm not getting any of your Bud Light. I really appreciate all your input. I bought the thing the other day and I still haven't taken it to the range yet. I've been busy with work.

Jason Demond, would the .40 S&W slide handle a .357 Sig round? My brother in law puts a .40 barrel in his .357 Glock and it works. But, does it work vice versa? The Siggy cartridge is one hot mama with some Ranger SXT's. Shooting it out of the mini Glock is quite painful. My wrist bent 90 deg up and 15 deg right...lol.

We turned all the lights off at the range to use the laser designator and the muzzle flash from that load is awesome.

[Te Anau]

Well I finally picked up my new Sigma SW9VE.This is an extremely comfortable gun to hold-it puts my Glock to shame.I love it.The true measure of a handguns functioning is measured by breaking it in with Winchester WUSS box as far as im concerned.I'll run 100 rounds of it through the gun and see what happens.I will also run some of the Speer I mentioned above as well as some 145gr Silver Bear HP's.The DAO trigger is smooth as glass and not nearly as bad as I was led to believe.Triggers are very subjective,but people tend to be a little psychotic about them if you ask me.It wont be going through a 25 yard benchrest accuracy test but i'll report back honestly on its functioning.And by the way CopeLC you definitely got the new version.
I called S&W about mine,and upon giving them its serial # was informed that it was made in March 2004.

[CopeLC]

Te Anau, glad to hear you got yours. You going to shoot yours this weekend? I'm trying for Saturday. I'm going to use the WWB ammo too. I have 200 rnds sitting in a drawer here. I couldn't believe how cheap .40 was.

You're right, they are a nice feeling pistol. I'm going to shoot mine at the 15 to start off with. I may bench it at 25 and see how it groups.