Help me with my Walther P99 pro/con FAQ!

[Greg Bell]

P99 Pro/con FAQ .1


1. Re-strike capable. Striker fired weapons have traditionally lacked re-strike capability. For example, if you pull the trigger on a Glock and the round fails to fire, you would not be able to pull the trigger again until you cycled the slide (and another round into the chamber). The P99 acts like a traditional hammer fired double action and allows a follow-up pull of the trigger.

2. Multiple front sites. Four front sights come with every P99, and are marked with a single digit on the top-front of the blade. This allows one to tailor the sites to your ammunition.

3. Ergonomics. The Walther P99 is certainly the most ergonomically designed double stack available. Walther brought in a designer of Olympic target pistol grips to assist them. The result was probably the most unusual looking grip ever put on a production gun. All P99s come with three grip back-straps: Small, Medium, and Large. The Medium one is installed from the factory. This allows the P99 to be tailored to almost any hand (the H&K P2000 has stolen this feature).

4. Safety. The Walther has quite a few safety features. First of all, it can be carried in double action mode. Second, it has a trigger safety that helps prevent unintentional trigger movement. Of course, it also has a striker, and drop safety as well. On top of that, it includes cocking and chamber loaded indicators.

6. Well designed slide release. Unlike the Glock, the Walther actually has a usable slide release.

7. Metal magazines. Unlike early polymer “wonder-nines” (Glock and USP), the Walther has steel magazines. Besides being tougher than plastic, steel allows the magazine to be thinner (and naturally, makes the P99’s grip is thinner).

8. Compact. The P99 is quite compact for a 16 round 9-mm. A P99 is …

9. It is James Bond's gun. How cool is that?

Con.
1. Unusual manual of arms. The P99 is unusual in that it is a striker-fired double action. Unlike a traditional hammer-fired double action there is no cocked-back hammer or trigger to give you a visual cue that the weapon is cocked. Walther attempted to address this with a small "weapon cocked" indicator on the back of the slide. A person is probably more likely to holster a Walther P-99 cocked than a traditional double action. Only after the trigger is pulled for the first time will it remain set back (or cocked). This too often confuses those new to the system.

2. Strange de-cocker placement. Unlike most other weapons equipped with a de-cocking lever, the Walther has a recessed button atop the rear of the left side of the slide. Theoretically this might lead to slightly slower de-cocking. In reality, this is simply unusual. I can think of no real drawback. Only the most hopeless "mall Ninja" is concerned about speedy de-cocking.

3. Proprietary equipment rail. The Walther equipment rail along the front of frame is unlike any other. Therefore, you are limited to "Walther only" toys. This is being addressed with the newer, revised (and ugly) Walthers.

4. Mag release button is the less-popular HK type. The mag release on the Walther is a recessed lever along the rear of the trigger-guard. It allows for ambidextrous, and rapid use. Unfortunately, some will complain that isn't the older, Luger-style button release. Some have complained that this style release is more likely to be accidentally activated--although this is hard to confirm.

5. Plastic sights. The P99's standard sites are made of plastic. This means that they will likely be less durable than the usual metal sight. Walther, apparently, manufactures a metal replacement for those who care enough to pay. Plus, all the available tritium sights have metal bodies.

6. Mysterious hump in the trigger guard. The trigger-guard of the P99 has a little hump built into the trigger guard right ahead of the trigger. The purpose of this little feature is to serve as a visual indicator of whether the trigger is in its forwardmost position. The 2004 model has ditched this cool-looking but perplexing feature. (Tamara)

7. Some magazine baseplates are breaking. There have been reports on the internet of magazine baseplates cracking or coming of entirely. (theJrod)

8.Plastic guide rod. Some feel that plastic is not strong enough for a guide rod. This is probably nonsense as Glocks, which are sturdy firearms no matter what you think of them, have always used plastic. A metal one is available for those who can’t stand the thought.

[JMC]

Walther P99 FAQ

[DPris]

The differences in operating the P99s are not insurmountable, but if you carry it for defensive purposes you should train with it almost exclusively. Don't practice with a conventional 1911-style pistol & then carry the Walther for serious purposes. Under stress, you'll revert to what your body most remembers you doing, and that could be a problem in reloading, if necessary.
As for the plastic guide rod, I've personally seen a part of the rear flange shear off and completely tie up a Glock. That was during a routine inspection, and happened when the slide went forward on reassembly. I've also talked to a former Glock armourer for one of the aftermarket companies who told me about plastic shavings on some Glocks he'd seen from that rod.
My serious carrying Glocks have steel guide rods that don't flex or break.
I'd recommend one in the Walther.
Denis

[Greg Bell]

JMC,

I cannibalized that site thoroughly. What I am trying to do is develop one that brings together all the arguments pro and con that you see on these forums. Like this: http://www.parkcitiestactical.com/pct_faq.htm#9. It will serve a different purpose than a purely informational FAQ.

[Handy]

The differences in operating the P99s are not insurmountable, but if you carry it for defensive purposes you should train with it almost exclusively. Don't practice with a conventional 1911-style pistol & then carry the Walther for serious purposes. Under stress, you'll revert to what your body most remembers you doing, and that could be a problem in reloading, if necessary.

What's so weird about the P99? All the fire and reload controls are in the usual places and the trigger is pretty much a standard DA/SA.


Greg, I had never heard that the gun has second strike. Not to be rude, but you've tried this?

[Greg Bell]

Handy,

Nothing rude about your question. Yes I do, and yes it does. And yes I am doing it right now! Wait a minute, what were we talking about?


Yes, it has a second strike capability. As you mentioned above, it basically operates like a traditional da/sa (except it is hammerless). Of course, the second pull of the trigger will be in DA mode.

[DPris]

Hi Handy,
The two major differences in operating the P99 are the mag release and the de-cocker.
The mag release is not in the same place as most buttons (although it's in the same general area) and the part that's used to activate it is located more in the triggerguard than on the frame as in most conventional autos without a European-style heel-clip release. It's also not activated the same way. The mag release is a lever that rotates down from the front around a rear pivot pin, very much unlike a standard push-button release.
If you train or practice reloading with a button-style release, if you have to reload under stress your mind/body/muscles will revert to the most remembered way you've done it. You will try to push that non-existent button in to drop the empty mag with your thumb if that's what you're used to doing. Then there'll be a break in what should be a smooth automatic reloading sequence while your mind realizes there's a malfunction and has to take the time to analyze & correct. How much time that will take varies under the circumstances and with the individual involved. If you're being attacked and hostile action is still on-going your mind will be trying to deal with a lot of immediate information (Are you being attacked? How close? Guns? Shots? Knives? How many attackers? How close? What's wrong with my gun? Where's cover? Can I get out of here? Where's my wife? And so on.) The most common reactions for many people when the expected operating cycle of a pistol is interrupted is to pull the trigger again (in case of a misfire) or do a Tap-Rack-Bang, or stop to look down at the gun to visually analyze what's wrong, depending on the amount of training you have. Figuring out why pushing the missing mag release button didn't drop the empty mag (Oh, yeah! Swivel that lever!) will not be instinctive and may divert your attention from other critical matters for three to five seconds while your mind (still busy with processing other information) sorts it out.
For casual or recreational shooters this is not a problem, and since most confrontational defensive encounters that require one or more shots seldom require a reload, it may be statistically insignificant for you. But, developing a smooth (first) and fast (second) reload is part of the core teaching of most of the better pistolcraft shooting schools, along with not removing your eyes from the threat to look at your gun, and we train to cover possibles too, not just statistical probabilities.
That doesn't mean the P99 release is a bad one, in fact it's a good one. I can't hit the button on a 1911 (or most other full-sized autos) with my shooting hand without twisting the pistol slightly to the left in my hand and breaking the shooting grip, my thumb's too short. But, I can remove my trigger finger from the triggerguard and activate the right-side release lever with much less of a change in my shooting grip. Others with longer thumbs can use the left-side lever. Lefties can do the reverse, since the lever's ambidextrous.
As far as the de-cocker goes, the location and use are totally different from any other de-cocker on the market. It's not an external lever, it's located inside the slide where it seems to be a problem for some, but I don't think it's really a big deal depending on how you use the pistol. If I were to carry mine for concealed self-defense, I'd carry it cocked with the trigger in the second or rearward position for a uniform short and relatively light single-action pull. In which case, I'd rarely use the de-cocker and certainly not before re-holstering it. With its internal passive & automatic firing pin block, there's no reason why you couldn't safely carry this design in the holster in either standard DA position uncocked for a long first DA trigger pull or a fully cocked SA trigger position with the trigger either forward or at the rear. It's your choice on carrying it in either mode, your preference on either a long & stiff first trigger pull or a short & light one. Even if you normally carry the P99 in a traditional uncocked DA/SA mode, and you forget to de-cock it when you holster it under stress, you haven't lost any inherent safety built into the pistol AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE RULES & KEEP YOUR FINGER OUTSIDE THE TRIGGERGUARD IN HANDLING THE PISTOL EITHER HOLSTERING OR DRAWING IT. If you maintain proper handling, you're still OK either way.
For those who'd choose to carry it uncocked, the de-cocker is still not hard to activate with the thumb of the left hand (for righties), by rotating the pistol slightly to the left and using the right thumb (for righties), or by reaching over the top of the slide with the right thumb (for lefties).
Another feature of the P99 de-cocker is that it's unobtrusive, out of the way, unlikely (damn near impossible) to activate accidentally like the external designs, and offers one less protrusion to snag on things or gouge skin during practice sessions on reloading and malfunction clearance drills.
The P99 is very different in those respects, and I've said since it first came out that if you're gonna carry it seriously, learn it & train out the other pistols from your muscle memory.
Also, not that Greg needs the confirmation, but the P99s in standard DA/SA (or AS Anti-Stress as it's now called) configuration do have a second strike capability, and I consider that a definite improvement in a defensive pistol over the Glocks. As I mentioned- for most people the immediate reaction to a click instead of a bang is to pull the trigger again, and my experience tells me that the greater percentage of first-strike primer failures will detonate on the second try. If you train to do the Tap-Rack-Bang reflexively that's not as important, but if you don't it easily could be. This is probably particularly important for less experienced shooters switching from a revolver (what do you do with a revolver if it clicks instead of bangs?) directly to a P99 and who might not take the time & effort to learn the TRB drill.
Denis

[Handy]

Denis,

Like Greg, I consider the decocker a non-issue as it really is an after-action item.

The mag release of the P99 was borrowed from HK and has been used since the early '80s on the P7M8, M13 and all USPs. It allows a wider variety of mag release options, but is still not terribly different than the more typical button type release.

And it is wise to remember that the button type is not the necessarily the norm. The action of the Ruger P89 is actually more of a forward push, and I have other guns in my collection that are even more fore and aft.


Perhaps everyone should train to push all mag releases with a in/forward/down motion that will properly actuate any thumb release? Personlly, I've never heard of anyone having trouble getting the mag out of their HK or P99.

But I switch between a number of weapons, even during matches and have yet to go for the wrong lever or forget the P7 cocking lever, so I tend to think the whole "training problem" thing is a little overstated.

And FWI, the anti-stress trigger refers to the way the SA trigger will ease forward to a longer trigger pull if released. I imagine this was intended to be a halfway-automatic decock.

[DPris]

If it works for you, great.
I'm more used to the 1911-style button. I have to put more thought into a fast reload with a Ruger "forward" push release, it's just different & doesn't work the same. Probably in recognition of this, Ruger's got a traditional push-button release on their new P345.
Sounds like you're an experienced shooter, more so than the average person who might buy a P99, at least in your match involvement. If you're used to switching around, that plus your higher level of involvement in shooting in general, may make it easier for you.
For others, either with a lower level of proficiency or experience, or who may be used to shooting the 1911-style button exclusively, it can be an issue under stress.
And, I'm well aware that there are other styles of mag releases, I was using the 1911 or more "traditional" style of button release as what I believe to be the most common among those who carry a defensive pistol. The greatest majority of the autos I work with use a button release. If you're Multi-Release Enabled, I'm happy for you. Buy the gun & don't worry about it.
This mag release is not a new issue as far as the basic concept of training with one type of system goes. When I started out in policing just after we switched from wooden revolvers to metal revolvers, commonality in operating systems was stressed even back then. "If you're gonna carry a Smith on duty (left-hand cylinder rotation and cylinder latch forward), don't carry a Colt snubby off duty (right-hand cylinder rotation and cylinder latch to the rear)." Both are revolvers, both have cylinders & barrels & latches in the same place, but both operate differently in those two areas & that could have an effect on reloading under stress, either fully or partially. Statistically insignificant? Maybe. Maybe not.
I thinks it's a well-established principle and a good one that adheres to the KISS theory that holds "Simple is best" and reduces the number of variables to deal with under stress.
Not sure about your AS reference. Mine was regarding the traditional DA/SA trigger on the current AS models. My three-year-old P99 is the DA/SA version, but not marked AS like the same trigger version is now. The P99 Compact I have here labeled P99C AS has an identical trigger action. Cycle the slide & it remains forward, but with a very light pull it can be retracted to the secondary "single-action" rearward position, which is where I'd carry it. Or, cycle the action, de-cock it & the trigger stays fully forward in a conventional long & hard DA pull. Anytime I cycle the slide, or retract it far enough to reset, the trigger either stays forward if I had it there to begin with or returns fully forward if I had it in the secondary SA position.
I disagree with your impression of the training issue being overstated, but do agree with you on the de-cocker being pretty much a non-issue.

Denis

[Greg Bell]

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