Llama .45 sub compact, any info?

[johndavid400]

Ever since I bought my Bersa .380 and found that it has still never had any sort of malfunction with the 2500 rounds that I have put through it, I have been eyeing the other part of the Bersa company, LLama (I know Firestorm is in there also, but that is not relevant). I really like the size, mag capacity (10), and overall look of the Llama .45 minimax sub compact, especially the finger rest magazine which really makes it look slick. Anyways, if the Llama will perform as well as my Bersa does, for $250, I am gonna go pick one up to replace my Beretta 3032 .32ACP for concealed carry. I have read only a few reviews on this gun, but they have all been excellent for reliability and pretty good for accuracy. I already knew when reading the reviews that the finish was pretty bad... looking like a chalkboard. You could probably scratch the finish off with your fingernail if you wanted to. Anyways, for $250 I would definitely not be worried about the crappy finish, so long as the gun operates well, I would have no complaint.

Is there anyone here who has one of these guns or has any experience with one? Anything you can tell me referring to reliability and/or accuracy would be appreciated. Thanks in advance ~ JD

[CZ75daddy0405]

No comment.

[johndavid400]

I know that usually, to get quality you have to spend a little more money. But that theory was proven wrong in my book when I bought my Bersa. My question is: Is the Llama a decent gun (Im not looking for perfect, Im also not looking at $800 ). All I need it for is concealed carry. If it gets scratched up, I won't give a crap. I'm not looking for a match grade, perfect trigger pull, Colt quality pistol.... so if you are going to critisize a gun that you have never shot based on the fact that it is $250, and tell me to buy a Colt defender or Kimber, please do not respond. I am simply looking for anyone that has this pistol and has an opinion about the reliability of it. I don't mean to be an A**.... I just need some opinions of this gun.

[CZ75daddy0405]

Ok Ill comment. I had a Llama minimax 45acp. This thing was reliable. But Point of impact was 1 1/2 foot low and 1 foot left of Point of aim. Sights could not be adjusted. Heavy for any kind of carry. Attracts Rust like an Old Chevy pick up truck. That was the worse $210 that I had ever spent.

All cost in or around your price range.
Buy a Makarov
Bersa Thunder 45
Cobra Patriot 45

[johndavid400]

thanks for the comment. I read on handgunreview about a guy who bought this gun and used cheap ammo, and said that he barely hit the target... When he cleaned it and used some good ammo, he said that he could group them within 5 in., do you suppose that this could have been part of your problem with the gun or do you just think that it was a poor quality gun?

[Gunmeister]

From what I have read and seen, Llama's metalurgy is quite poor and subject to rapid wear both internal and external. I had one of their little .380s years ago that looked like a mini 1911. It looked cool but the "nickle" plate could be lifted with your finger nail and the OEM magazines were terrible. Bersas are related but seem to be of a much higher quality than their Llama cousins

[nemesis]

Im not looking for perfect, Im also not looking at $800. All I need it for is concealed carry.

OK, so you're not looking for a perfect gun; all you need it for is concealed carry. You don't need a perfect gun so just buy a $250 gun that works most of the time. All you need it for is concealed carry.

I see your point. Why would I want to spend a lot of money on a gun that's only going to be used for concealed carry? But, why spend $250? What's wrong with a good Bryco? Are Jennings, Lorcin and Raven out of the picture? You could get one for about $99.

I can't see why anyone would want to spend $400 for a Ruger, Smith or Springfield. After all, it's only for concealed carry.

[johndavid400]

Well, I would also want to practice with it... when I spent $199 on my bersa, I expected to shoot it all the time and I do. And it works marvelously.... for target shooting or carry (its a bit big though). So I figure, why not try the Llama? If they and Bersa are intertwined, I wonder if the Llama would be the same quality gun as the Bersa? I dont want a disposable gun, one to shoot 3 times before it breaks... and I already have experience with the products of this company and know how happy I am with the one I have. So I am basically wondering if those who buy this Llama are as happy with it as those that buy the Bersa .380's.

[larryf1952]

I own both a Bersa .380...an old Model 83 7 shot single stack...and a Llama .45 Max-I C/F duotone. The Bersa was like finding a little treasure at the end of the rainbow, an unexpected thrill that I've put many rounds through with utter reliability in the last 10 or 11 years.

I bought the Llama about 7 years ago, to take some of the heat off my other .45's...I just wanted a "beater" .45 that I could throw around at the range, without worrying about wearing it out. After I worked a couple of bugs out of the Llama, it has become one of my favorite "casual" .45's. It had a burr on the inside of the frame that sometimes prevented rearward movement of the trigger...I had to detail strip the gun to find and remove that. The trigger pull is not great, a bit heavy and creepy. I put a Mec-Gar magazine in it that would not work in my Kimber, and the gun now feeds reliably, even with my 185 grain JHP handloads. The Llama is dead on, point of aim accurate, and since I know what to expect with the trigger, I can consistently ring a 10" gong at 50 yards with little effort. Maybe, I got an exceptional one, I don't know.

Out of the box, I'd have some concerns with a Llama being used for concealed carry, where reliability is priority #1. As mine is now 7 years old, I can't speak of current production. If you can be assured of making it reliable, it should be a decent weapon.

[railroader]

Just so you know Bersa and Llama are imported by the same importer not made by the same manufacturer. Llamas are made in Spain and Bersa's are made in Argentina. Try doing a search here on Llama's. Mark

[michael t]

Don't insult Bersa! Llama different company. I have that piece of trash Llama you ask about. Mine shoots low also. That is when it shoots you see you get a lot of practice clearing jams . Just to many problems Ive given up on it . You said Bersa to big to carry it a lot lighter and better than the Llama. If you want a 45 then get the one from Bersa sort of big 380 looking they work.RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THAT LLAMA!!!!

[Homeseller]

I purchased the Llama mini 45 in a very weak moment 7 years ago. Never fired it. I want to sell it, but I worry about the poor soul that I would sell it to.

When I can't carry one of my 4" or 5" 1911s, I carry on of my Makarovs-know ing they go bang every single time. (In addition to my tiny Kel-tec .32 that sits in my pocket all the time.

[gsc67]

Your Bersa .380 is to big for C&C ?? What are you... an Elf ! Bottom line my friend is people are telling you that the Llama Sub .45 is a hunk of C**p. By a Beretta Tomcat .32 and use JHP...That will get the job done. Needless to say, you will never need to worry about a malfunction when it comes to defending your life.

[packa45]

My dad bought one years ago and it wasn't good out the box. It now feeds ok and seems to like Win silvertips for HP. Like it's been said before finish is crap and the alloy is only a step up from a hipoint. Accuracy is the worst I've seen for a sub compact 1911 type. He doesn't carry it as a ccw, the cz 75 compact .40 gets that duty. I would save my pennies and get a SA Ultra compact (which I did) or, and I can't believe I'm typing this.....get a Glock.

[Magyar]

"I purchased the Llama mini 45 in a very weak moment 7 years ago. Never fired it. I want to sell it, but I worry about the poor soul that I would sell it to."
Hell, now I know why the poor Llama gets banged up so much....I can cite posts where Kimbers, Les Baer, Ed Brown, etc. can have a problem....BTW, that inferior steel story is all baloney....
I've had a few Llamas, not minis, and can't complain....Keep it clean, well-lubed, factory ammo; never had problems...

[Bill DeShivs]

Most people who talk about "bad metal" can't tell steel from zinc. Llamas are steel.
Bill

[Molasses]

Had a nickelled/chrome/whatever MiniMax II. That'd be the little subcompact jamatic with the 10 rd doublestack mag. Owned it for a short time. After the warm glow of purchasing it wore off, I was going "What the ____ was I thinking?"

My advice is to pass it by without a backwards glance.

[rgillis]

My experience with Llama was also lackluster. My Llama 1911 was a real POS! I'm not saying that everyone's Llama experience was or is the same, but I'd be wary. In all fairness I've heard of some that have had no problems at all.

[varoadking]

Think of it this way...does it really make sense to buy a gun that costs less than 1,000 rounds of ammo?

Check the auction sites for a good used S&W stainless steel .45. I bought a 4586 a few months ago for $275.00. It is one of my favorites, even though I have handguns that cost nearly 10 times as much...

[michael t]

WOW!!!!! BACK FROM DEAD THREAD last post was Oct 2004 . Now everybody jumping on it again.
News flash. Llama is gone ,history , been that way for about 1 1/2 years. If you have one better find spares as xtractors and other parts(non 1911) are running out. Dist has nothing .