Best velocities for these .45 Colt defense bullets?

ZWolfgang · October 9, 2004, 09:06 PM

I'm giving some thought as to what .45 Colt bullets I would like to load for defense purposes. I've narrowed to a range of JHP bullets from 200 to 260 gr. (These will be used in a new lever rifle, so concerns about handgun recoil, or use in old or weak firearms don't apply.)

I'm really just trying to determine what velocities might provide optimal defense bullet performance (good expansion, deep penetration, minimal bullet fragmentation) for each of these bullets. Because they will be used in a rifle, moderately hot loadings are no problem.

In general I get the impression that Gold Dots may hold together better than the other JHP designs, but I'm not sure. While I'm confident that any of them would get the job done, if I had to just pick one myself, I think I'd lean toward the 250 gr. Gold Dot at about 1250 fps., but I'm no expert.

I'm just looking for an approximate, general velocity range best suited to each bullet.

Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot JHP
Speer 250 gr. Gold Dot JHP
Speer 225 gr. JHP
Speer 260 gr. JHP
Sierra 240 gr. JHC

Are any of these bullets likely to be superior performing defense loads, all other factors aside?

Thanks in advance.

ZWolfgang · October 10, 2004, 01:37 PM

A little more info on this idea:

Right now my .45 Colt defense loads are: (as measured at 9' from the muzzle of my Win 92 Trapper):

•Georgia Arms 200 gr. Gold Dot JHP 1424 fps / 901 fpe

•Corbon 200 gr. JHP 1439 fps / 920 fpe

I think these are running a little too fast out of the 16" Trapper barrel and might over expand / under penetrate... but I am just guestimating that.

Speer makes a .45 Colt 250 gr. Gold Dot defense load, probably intended to be fired from a pistol. It is loaded relatively mildly, giving just 948 fps / 498 fpe from a 16" Trapper. At that speed and weight, penetration would probably be ok, but expansion might be little if any. It feeds and functions just fine though. I'm sure it would serve the purpose in a pinch, but pushing that same bullet to 1250 would seem to be a much more effective loading.

There are no really good defense loads in .45 Colt being commerically made, as these three above are the closest there is and the first two are probably too fast for just a 200 gr. bullet and the Speer is not fast enough.

That's why I'm thinking a 250 gr. Gold Dot moving out at 1250 would be just about right. Energy would be 867 fpe. My Winchester 92 and 94 Trappers feed and fire anything I put in them, so I'm confident the load would run just fine.

Just for the record... and lest I come off looking like some bloodthirsty commando hoping for a gunfight... I live my life in such a way as to minimize the possibility that I would ever have to defend my life against some idiot with bad intent. The last thing I would want to do is have to defend my life or others against an evil-doer. And the likelihood of ever having to put my guns to defense use is next to none (fortunately). That said, I find the topic of defense ammo intriguing and enjoy the process of analysing the tools and practicing with them... should the unthinkable actually become reality, I like being prepared. In the mean time, I just enjoy working with these beautiful guns for pleasure's sake.

I do wonder how the Gold Dot designs differ in performance from the non-Gold Dot JHP designs I listed above... anyone have any idea? Or any interest?

mete · October 10, 2004, 07:41 PM

I guess you've never done any hunting .Any of those bullets at 900 fps or better would make a very good defense load. The heavier bullets out of a rifle would have more penetration than necessary.I would pick the 200 or 225 and drive them at 1000-1100 fps.That should "change the channel".

ZWolfgang · October 10, 2004, 09:18 PM

mete... Thanks for the note. You are so right. I'm not a hunter. I really don't like killing at all. (Well, I do blast moles on my property with a 12 gauge! No bad feelings about that.)

I really love shooting guns, though, even though I don't like killing.

So it seems like perhaps 1250 fps would be a little too fast for personal defense use? Perhaps 1100 is a velocity I should be loading for.

Do you have any understanding of the differences between the Gold Dots and the standard JHP designs? Like how they differ in terms of rate of expansion and how well they hold together?

One more bullet I'm going to check out is Hornady's 250 gr. XTP/JHP. I just like the slightly heavier bullets because I feel deep penetration is really important, especially as we head into winter. I feel one might be able to rely better on a 250 gr. JHP to penetrate layers of coats, vests, denim, shirt, undershirt, and then possibly a large bodied, "hopped-up," or adrenalized evil-doer. I live on acerage in the country, so over-penetration is of somewhat lesser concern to me than it would be in a more condensed living environment.

I'll probably go with the 250 gr. Gold Dot, but perhaps back it off somewhat as you suggest to perhaps 1100 or so. I'd really love to have some more input from those who have hunted with these bullets... that would be great!

I plan to develop a comparable personal defense load in .44 magnum as well because nearly all the factory .44 mag JHP loads are really pretty supercharged (for hunting use, of course), coming out of my Winchester 94 Trapper at 1550 to 2000 fps. Fine for hunting, but WAY too hot for personal defense use. So I can see developing a 240 gr. .44 mag Gold Dot load at about 1100 fps... being just about right.

mete · October 10, 2004, 10:20 PM

To give you an idea - my hunting load for my 44 mag revolver is the SPEER 225 jhpSWC at 1270. The only recovered bullet from deer went through 25-30" of deer including a rib.!! My defense load [unused except for woodchucks] is a LSWCHP 240 gr at 900 fps. Bullet construction vs velocity makes a big difference , something designed for 1100 fps may break up at 2000.

ZWolfgang · October 11, 2004, 01:03 AM

mete... that's why I'm trying to get some feedback about what speeds those various bullets should be clocking at. I get the impression that the Gold Dots are designed to expand well at relatively lower velocities, like 950 to 1100 or so and that the other regular JHP's and XTP's are designed to be driven faster before they expand well... like 1200 to 1400 or so... does that sound right to you?

Does 1050 to 1200 sound like a reasonable speed "window" for a 250 gr. Gold Dot? I understand that much higher speeds (like 1600-1800) would probably induce a Gold Dot bullet to disintegrate nearly on impact, while an XTP or a Partition might well be holding together and expanding well at those speeds. Make any sense? I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of the velocities that are appropriate with the different bullet types.

mete · October 11, 2004, 07:36 AM

Since I haven't tried them all I can't be specific. Makers SHOULD give info on velocity ranges they are designed for. The XTP will give more expansion than most . From comments I've heard the XTP would be ok for deer but lacks the penetration needed for large boar. The Nosler partition though more expensive gives both expansion and penetration [I use that in my 45-70 for deer] Most handgun premium bullets like the Gold Dot are designed for handguns to conform to LE needs and should give excellent expansion /penetration within typical hand gun velocities.

October 9, 2004, 09:06 PM	#1
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	Best velocities for these .45 Colt defense bullets? I'm giving some thought as to what .45 Colt bullets I would like to load for defense purposes. I've narrowed to a range of JHP bullets from 200 to 260 gr. (These will be used in a new lever rifle, so concerns about handgun recoil, or use in old or weak firearms don't apply.) I'm really just trying to determine what velocities might provide optimal defense bullet performance (good expansion, deep penetration, minimal bullet fragmentation) for each of these bullets. Because they will be used in a rifle, moderately hot loadings are no problem. In general I get the impression that Gold Dots may hold together better than the other JHP designs, but I'm not sure. While I'm confident that any of them would get the job done, if I had to just pick one myself, I think I'd lean toward the 250 gr. Gold Dot at about 1250 fps., but I'm no expert. I'm just looking for an approximate, general velocity range best suited to each bullet. Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot JHP Speer 250 gr. Gold Dot JHP Speer 225 gr. JHP Speer 260 gr. JHP Sierra 240 gr. JHC Are any of these bullets likely to be superior performing defense loads, all other factors aside? Thanks in advance.

October 10, 2004, 01:37 PM	#2
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	A little more info on this idea: Right now my .45 Colt defense loads are: (as measured at 9' from the muzzle of my Win 92 Trapper): •Georgia Arms 200 gr. Gold Dot JHP 1424 fps / 901 fpe •Corbon 200 gr. JHP 1439 fps / 920 fpe I think these are running a little too fast out of the 16" Trapper barrel and might over expand / under penetrate... but I am just guestimating that. Speer makes a .45 Colt 250 gr. Gold Dot defense load, probably intended to be fired from a pistol. It is loaded relatively mildly, giving just 948 fps / 498 fpe from a 16" Trapper. At that speed and weight, penetration would probably be ok, but expansion might be little if any. It feeds and functions just fine though. I'm sure it would serve the purpose in a pinch, but pushing that same bullet to 1250 would seem to be a much more effective loading. There are no really good defense loads in .45 Colt being commerically made, as these three above are the closest there is and the first two are probably too fast for just a 200 gr. bullet and the Speer is not fast enough. That's why I'm thinking a 250 gr. Gold Dot moving out at 1250 would be just about right. Energy would be 867 fpe. My Winchester 92 and 94 Trappers feed and fire anything I put in them, so I'm confident the load would run just fine. Just for the record... and lest I come off looking like some bloodthirsty commando hoping for a gunfight... I live my life in such a way as to minimize the possibility that I would ever have to defend my life against some idiot with bad intent. The last thing I would want to do is have to defend my life or others against an evil-doer. And the likelihood of ever having to put my guns to defense use is next to none (fortunately). That said, I find the topic of defense ammo intriguing and enjoy the process of analysing the tools and practicing with them... should the unthinkable actually become reality, I like being prepared. In the mean time, I just enjoy working with these beautiful guns for pleasure's sake. I do wonder how the Gold Dot designs differ in performance from the non-Gold Dot JHP designs I listed above... anyone have any idea? Or any interest? Last edited by ZWolfgang; October 10, 2004 at 03:08 PM.

October 10, 2004, 07:41 PM	#3
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I guess you've never done any hunting .Any of those bullets at 900 fps or better would make a very good defense load. The heavier bullets out of a rifle would have more penetration than necessary.I would pick the 200 or 225 and drive them at 1000-1100 fps.That should "change the channel".

October 10, 2004, 09:18 PM	#4
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	mete... Thanks for the note. You are so right. I'm not a hunter. I really don't like killing at all. (Well, I do blast moles on my property with a 12 gauge! No bad feelings about that.) I really love shooting guns, though, even though I don't like killing. So it seems like perhaps 1250 fps would be a little too fast for personal defense use? Perhaps 1100 is a velocity I should be loading for. Do you have any understanding of the differences between the Gold Dots and the standard JHP designs? Like how they differ in terms of rate of expansion and how well they hold together? One more bullet I'm going to check out is Hornady's 250 gr. XTP/JHP. I just like the slightly heavier bullets because I feel deep penetration is really important, especially as we head into winter. I feel one might be able to rely better on a 250 gr. JHP to penetrate layers of coats, vests, denim, shirt, undershirt, and then possibly a large bodied, "hopped-up," or adrenalized evil-doer. I live on acerage in the country, so over-penetration is of somewhat lesser concern to me than it would be in a more condensed living environment. I'll probably go with the 250 gr. Gold Dot, but perhaps back it off somewhat as you suggest to perhaps 1100 or so. I'd really love to have some more input from those who have hunted with these bullets... that would be great! I plan to develop a comparable personal defense load in .44 magnum as well because nearly all the factory .44 mag JHP loads are really pretty supercharged (for hunting use, of course), coming out of my Winchester 94 Trapper at 1550 to 2000 fps. Fine for hunting, but WAY too hot for personal defense use. So I can see developing a 240 gr. .44 mag Gold Dot load at about 1100 fps... being just about right.

October 10, 2004, 10:20 PM	#5
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	To give you an idea - my hunting load for my 44 mag revolver is the SPEER 225 jhpSWC at 1270. The only recovered bullet from deer went through 25-30" of deer including a rib.!! My defense load [unused except for woodchucks] is a LSWCHP 240 gr at 900 fps. Bullet construction vs velocity makes a big difference , something designed for 1100 fps may break up at 2000.

October 11, 2004, 01:03 AM	#6
ZWolfgang Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 254	mete... that's why I'm trying to get some feedback about what speeds those various bullets should be clocking at. I get the impression that the Gold Dots are designed to expand well at relatively lower velocities, like 950 to 1100 or so and that the other regular JHP's and XTP's are designed to be driven faster before they expand well... like 1200 to 1400 or so... does that sound right to you? Does 1050 to 1200 sound like a reasonable speed "window" for a 250 gr. Gold Dot? I understand that much higher speeds (like 1600-1800) would probably induce a Gold Dot bullet to disintegrate nearly on impact, while an XTP or a Partition might well be holding together and expanding well at those speeds. Make any sense? I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of the velocities that are appropriate with the different bullet types.

October 11, 2004, 07:36 AM	#7
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Since I haven't tried them all I can't be specific. Makers SHOULD give info on velocity ranges they are designed for. The XTP will give more expansion than most . From comments I've heard the XTP would be ok for deer but lacks the penetration needed for large boar. The Nosler partition though more expensive gives both expansion and penetration [I use that in my 45-70 for deer] Most handgun premium bullets like the Gold Dot are designed for handguns to conform to LE needs and should give excellent expansion /penetration within typical hand gun velocities.