The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 2, 2005, 08:50 PM   #1
Sir William
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 3,261
Interarms Walther PPK/s?

Yes, another Walther question. When did Interarms import them? I was handed one today. I had not seen one with Interarms markings, what is the 411?
Sir William is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 02:56 AM   #2
kennybs plbg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Hemet, Ca.
Posts: 524
I know they were importing them through interarms back in 1983/84, thats when I was in the market for mine.

kenny b
kennybs plbg is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 03:36 AM   #3
Combat Kenny
Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Posts: 95
Ppk

Hi, what I read, Interarms made the PPK and PPK/S in the US starting from 1979. At the present time, PPK/S is made by S&W. So, all USA made PPK/S should either have interarms or S&W on the right forward side of the pistol.
Combat Kenny is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 04:15 AM   #4
Sir William
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 13, 2004
Posts: 3,261
That was my understanding. Interarms was the US manufacturer. I had heard of the american PPk but, I had not seen one before. It looks great and functions well. The blue is as good as Colts I have. The black plastic grips fit well. I like the little sights for everything but accuracy. The whole package is impressive. Very nice.
Sir William is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 10:20 AM   #5
kennybs plbg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Hemet, Ca.
Posts: 524
I thought they were just imported through interarms international. I have a Manurhin PPK/S and it's imported through Marta Manurhin International, Fort Lauderdale,FL.

kenny b
kennybs plbg is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 11:55 AM   #6
CrazyTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 101
My PPKs is also an Interarms model. It was my understanding that the parts were manufactured by Walther and assembled in the US by Interarms. I was assuming the same about the S&W models. Yes/no??
__________________
"It's a dangerous thing stepping out your door. If you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to" ~Bilbo Baggins
CrazyTrain is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 03:07 PM   #7
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,477
Interarms was Walther's American importer from the mid-1950's.
In those years Interarms imported the full range of Walther firearms, including the PP and PPK.

After the Gun Control Act of 1968, the PPK was no longer "legal" being about 1/4" too short in the butt, so Walther made up the PPK/s for the American market.

In the late 1970's, the cost of the European-made PP series guns was pricing Walther out of the American market, so Walther licensed InterArms to manufacture the PPK/s in America.

Interarms contracted the actual manufacturing to Ranger Industries in Alabama??.
The entire gun was made here in America with no parts supplied by Walther.

As a historical note: For many years American gun magazines had their yearly "round up" articles on pocket pistols, and the European-made Walther PPK was always described as "Typical Teutonic Workmanship" or "Fine German Quality".

After Walther/InterArms began making the guns here, the gun magazines blandly informed us that the "German made" PP series pistols had been made in FRANCE by Manurhin, and had been since WWII.

After WWII, Walther wanted to market the PP series, but they didn't have a manufacturing plant yet.
So, they contracted with the French Manurhin company to do the actual manufacturing.

The guns were built in France, shipped a few miles over the German border to Walther, where they were proof-fired, blued, stamped "Made In Germany" and sold all over the world as "German made".

To be fair, in Europe the country where a firearm is final proof-fired, is considered the country of manufacture.

So, all those "German Made" Walther PP series pistols were FRENCH all along.
The last PP series pistol actually made in German was in early 1945.

The contract with Walther having expired and manufacture of the PPK and PPK/s having been moved to American, Manurhin decided to market the gun under THEIR name.

Manurhin began importing PPK/s pistols in .22LR and .380.
People realized something wasn't Kosher when they began doing side-by-side comparisons between the "new" Manurhin guns and the "German" guns.

A close inspection proved they had both been made on the SAME production equipment, right down to having the same milling marks on internal surfaces.

The plastic boxes were made in the same moulds, and the Manurhin instruction manual was the EXACT same manual as issued with the Walther guns.
The only difference was, the Manurhin manual airbrushed out the Walther markings on the photos of the guns, and airbrushed IN Manurhin markings.

American's were somewhat angry about having been lied to by the gun writers, and having been misled by Walther since the 50's.

This reached a head in the famous mid-1980's "Walther War" in the gun magazines.

Manurhin began taking ads in the gun magazines advertising their PPK/s pistols.

Walther retaliated by taking full page ads claiming that "ONLY Walther-marked pistols were really the "Genuine" PPK/s pistol".

Manurhin immediately took full page ads informing us that THEY, and ONLY they had been making the PP series pistols since WWII, and since they had made them all along, THEY were the "real" PPK/s.

After about a year of this, Walther bit the bullet and made some kind of deal with Manurhin.
Manurhin stopped importing PPK/s's and stopped all advertising.

In the late 1990's Interarms founder, the mysterious Sam Cummings, died.
His daughter decided she didn't want to run the company, and closed Interarms down.

Walther started a relationship with Smith & Wesson to co-produce the Walther P99 pistol, and licensed S&W to make the PP series pistols.

I'm not sure whether S&W actually makes the PPK or is contracting it out to another producer like in the Walther/Interarms/Ranger days.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 03:24 PM   #8
michael t
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: Out back Ky
Posts: 4,044
I have a SS Interarms PPK/S made early 80's and its a great little pistol Never given me any trouble and has never jamed on Ball or HP's Up till this week its been my main carry. Iam thinking or retirement as I picked up a 40 Firestar almost same size ,weights a little more but packs more of a punch.
__________________
Certified Armed Infidel Colt Defender ,Colt Mustang ,Dan Wesson CBOB, PPK/S, American Classic 1911,Bersa Thunder 380
http://bersachat.comHome of Bersa
http://www.metroarms1911forum.com
michael t is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 06:48 PM   #9
Walter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2004
Location: North Texas
Posts: 641
I bought an Interarms...

...PPK, stainless, in 1995, just after "Concealed Carry Permits" became legal
for us "peons" here in Texas (thanks to then-Gov. George W. Bush).

I've carried it for almost ten years, and it is a great little gun. It feeds
Win. Silvertips and Fed. Hydrashoks like it was made for them. You're right about the sights, I wish it had 'tritiums' on it, but,,,.

The PPK has taken a rest, though, since I bought a CZ RAMI .40 last month.
It will be back, though, this summer when it's a hundred degrees outside,
and tee-shirt and shorts weather.
Walter is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 07:13 PM   #10
CrazyTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 101
That is some GREAT information Dfaris - thanks

Boiling it all down - does Walther actually make anything, or are they now just a design house? Just curious. And, were there any Interarms PPKs or PPK/s's made in .32?
__________________
"It's a dangerous thing stepping out your door. If you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to" ~Bilbo Baggins
CrazyTrain is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 07:49 PM   #11
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,477
Just after WWII Walther had the critical production plans for all the Walther firearms, but no plant.

Their plant was at Zella Melis, and what was left after the bombing, wound up in Russia's hands.

Until the mid-1950's, Walther had all the Walther guns made by Manurhin in France, but as soon as they got a new plant built at Ulm, they took all production back, except for the PP series pistols.
The deal with the French on the PP guns was so good that Walther just decided to leave the PP situation as is.

Since the 50's Walther has made all their own firearms at Ulm.

They have made some production deals like the Interarms and now S&W collaboration.
Primarily, these are to keep the cost of Walther guns down here in America, which IS world's big commercial and police gun market.

Walther/Interarms did produce the PP series in .32 ACP.
These are not too common, due to the market preference for the .380.
The .32 production was just before Interarms went out of business.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 08:43 PM   #12
CrazyTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 101
More great info.

So there were only .32 PP's made for Interarms, no PPKs or PPK/s's?
__________________
"It's a dangerous thing stepping out your door. If you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to" ~Bilbo Baggins
CrazyTrain is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 09:35 PM   #13
kennybs plbg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Hemet, Ca.
Posts: 524
Thank you for all the great info. I have seen early pp/ppk's display both names on the firearm such as Walther/Manurhin and always wondered why the walther was dropped. So having a early 80's Manurhin ppk/s made in France in a duragrad/nickle finish, have any effect on market value over the american made interarms/S&W.

kenny b
kennybs plbg is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 10:33 PM   #14
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,928
I believe the French/German Walthers are generally considered to be better quality than the current S&W made "Walthers".

The Interarms guns made by Ranger Firearms seem to fall somewhere in between.
JohnKSa is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 10:58 PM   #15
rodgers330
Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2004
Posts: 22
Based on my experience, my S&W PPK/S is a huge improvement over my long-gone Interarms jam-o-matic. I especially like the extended beavertail. It's a snappy gun to shoot but reliability has been outstanding and accuracy is good.
rodgers330 is offline  
Old January 7, 2005, 11:56 PM   #16
CrazyTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 101
Rodgers - do you have a photo?

I bought my Interarms PPKs used and have put 150 rounds through it so far without a problem. Maybe I lucked into decent ammo.
__________________
"It's a dangerous thing stepping out your door. If you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to" ~Bilbo Baggins
CrazyTrain is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 12:08 AM   #17
CrazyTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2004
Location: Fort Worth Texas
Posts: 101
S&W PPK/s

__________________
"It's a dangerous thing stepping out your door. If you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to" ~Bilbo Baggins
CrazyTrain is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 12:09 AM   #18
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,928
Ok, to be more complete in my response I should say: Both the Interarms U.S. made guns and the S&W guns enjoy a spotty reputation with the Interarms winning out in the reliability department IN GENERAL.

My SS U.S. made Interarms PPK has been 100% reliable but based on what I've heard others say about theirs I don't recommend the gun to others. I've heard even more bad about the S&W PPK pistols though...
JohnKSa is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 01:27 AM   #19
Guntec
Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2004
Posts: 58
Great info but I still have some confusion. just for the record:

The Interarms PPK marked guns made in the USA, after '68 GCA, are they proper PPK? Or are they PPK/S?

And is S&W making PPK (in addition to PPK/S) right now? I mean new production guns. Since it's US made, not subject to import laws, why doesn't S&W just drop the PPK/S line?
Guntec is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 01:43 AM   #20
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,477
CrazyTrain
Sorry, I wasn't more clear.
When I wrote about the "PP series" I meant the entire series of PP, PPK, and PPK/s guns.
Interarms never produced the PP in America.

I'm not sure if Interarms made the PPK "AND" the PPK/s in 32ACP, or just one or the other .
Right now I just can't remember if the batch I last saw were PPK or PPK/s guns.

The Walther/Manurhin marked P-38 and PP series were the very early guns made before Walther had the plant at Ulm.
These early guns were usually marked Made By Manurhin "Under License of Walther".

After Walther got their new plant up and running, they moved the production of the P-38 to Germany, but left the PP series in France.

Apparently, they no longer wanted the Manurhin link to be publicly known, so they started finishing out the guns in Germany, so they could be marked as "Made in Germany", and any mention of Manurhin was removed from the guns.

This is why things get confusing.
You have Walther PP and PPK guns marked as being made by Manurhin under License of Walther.

Then you have Walther PP, PPK, and PPK/s guns marked Walther "Made in Germany", that were actually made in France by Manurhin.

Then you have Manurhin made PPK/s guns, marked only with Manurhin markings, and no mention of Walther.

Then you have Walther PPK and PPK/s guns marked Walther, "Made Under License by Interarms, but actually made in Alabama by Ranger.

Last you have Walther PPK/s guns marked "Made under license by Smith & Wesson.

Hows that for a convoluted ancestry?

Guntec:
When Walther moved production to the US, for some reason they only made the PPK/s early on.
Finally, in the mid-1980's they started producing the PPK also.

For unknown reasons, they never produced the PP model or a PP series gun in 22LR here.

The reason they still produce the PPK/s is, it's still VERY popular with many buyers.
You get the steel back strap, an extra round in the magazine, and a bit of extra weight to help with recoil.

Plus, as far as I know, nobody in America ever made production after-market grips for the PPK.
So if you wanted something besides black plastic factory grips, you bought a PPK/s.

I actually preferred the PPK/s, and bought three of them: a Early blued Interarms, a mid-production Interarms stainless, and a Manurhin 22LR made during the "Walther War" with Manurhin.

I used the stainless version for years, until I replaced it with a Kahr K9.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 08:50 AM   #21
cavediver27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 499
Interarms manufactured both the PPK and the PPK/S in the USA. I have a PPK in stainless that was manufactured in 1991. The PPK was made in fewer numbers by Interarms than the PPK/S and is a little tougher to come by.

As with most any semi-auto pistol my PPK took about 200-250 rounds along with a ramp polishing and a 'fluff and buff' to the slide rails to really run smooth. Since then it has been perfect and 100% reliable. I use Remington 88 grain JHP's along with 102 grain Golden Sabers.

Hogue makes beautiful custom grips for the PPK. I bought a set of checkered Coco Bolo, they make the gun much more comfortable to shoot as well as looking fantastic. They cost around $75.00 but to me are well worth the price.

To me the PPK is the 'classic version' as well as the best darn looking pistol ever made IMHO. As stated above, the PPK/S was a design that came about to comply with the Gun Control Act, not because it was a better design.

Last edited by cavediver27; January 8, 2005 at 08:55 AM. Reason: additional information
cavediver27 is offline  
Old January 8, 2005, 06:48 PM   #22
larryf1952
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 17, 2004
Location: KCMO
Posts: 615
Much good info on the Walther and PP pistols here, thanks to everyone. I always was enamored of the PPK style pistols, ever since I saw my first one as a young lad. Caliber didn't matter, I just thought they really looked cool and classy for a handgun. When I found out that they were being built in the US, I bought my stainless PPK/s .380 in 1989. I still have it, and it's been a very good gun for me. I handload the 88 grain Remington JHP's for it, and they work 100%, as their profile is very similar to FMJ ball. I realize some may have experienced spotty performance with their guns, but I can't complain.
larryf1952 is offline  
Old September 12, 2008, 07:45 PM   #23
BptDude
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2008
Posts: 1
so what do I have?

OK, so I have a PP, stamped with "Interarms Alexandria Virginia" on one side and "Made in W Germany" on the other.

Was it made in West Germany before the collapse of the Soviet Union?
Was it made in France?
Was it made in Alabama?

Since it is a PP not a PPK or PPK/s I think we can rule out Virginia.
Can we?



Thanks in advance.
BptDude is offline  
Old September 12, 2008, 08:17 PM   #24
PSP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 2, 2006
Location: Bowling Green Virginia
Posts: 4,484
One place to look for info is the barrel as seen inside the ejection port. What is stamped there and what else is on the pistol?



This one shows it was made in 1968, in Ulm Germany and carries the German export mark.
PSP is offline  
Old September 12, 2008, 10:24 PM   #25
Dfariswheel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,477
The gun was not made in the USA since it's stamped "Made in Germany".

The "West German" stamp indicates it was made before the fall of East Germany and the USSR and imported by the US licensed importer, Interarms.
Dfariswheel is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07877 seconds with 7 queries