Real ID Cards, a threat to our a way of life!

jonathon · May 9, 2005, 01:17 PM

Tomorow, the Senate votes on Real ID. However, this bill has not been discussed. Not only that, but its hidden in a military spending bill, and no one wants to vote against it.

www.unrealid.com

thebucket · May 9, 2005, 09:40 PM

Fax sent! I should have copied by comment to post here, but oh well.
National ID cards are a scary thing. We must work hard to prevent our country from slipping down the path to 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 9, 2005, 09:49 PM

How about 666? I think that its closer to that than 1984 or Fahrenheit 451.

Wraith · May 9, 2005, 10:15 PM

Mark my words: I will never get a national ID.

F350Lawman · May 10, 2005, 12:09 AM

Every single person on this forum carries a drivers license or non-drivers ID as we speak now. If a national ID containing similar info is created.... no biggie. The only thing I want to see is it be required for airline travel, opening bank accounts, applying for social services, employment, etc, so it can be used to catch and deport illegals, wanted persons, etc.

A card that has my photo, address and DOB and says that I am a legal resident of the U.S., I have no problem with that, throw my blood type and emergency contact on as well so that if I am seriously injured the can save time. I carry all of that and more now, the only thing is it is on different cards. I NEED them all with me 24/7 to verify my status as a driver, retired LEO, private investigator, pay social security, pistol permit holder, registered voter, etc. Without these ID's I can't travel on a plane, gain entrance to certain buildings etc.

Let's make it easier for an officer in Wisconsin, a social services worker in Montana, or a poll worker in Iowa, to look at one card and tell if the guy from NY is wanted, is illegal, is on parole/probation, is on some watch list, owes 40,000 in child support, can't legally vote, etc. The way it is now there are a zilllion different IDs so it's harder to spot the frauds. Make the new card HARD TO FAKE, and use the latest in technology to connect the databases.

As long as they don't change the laws regarding when LEO's can demand ID, I don't think it will change the law abiding citizens life one bit. When stopped under the common law right of inquiry you'll still be able to say..."no, go F youreslf to the LEO", if you choose.

For most things we need to show ID for, us good citizens are already turning over info by showing proper ID, lets make it harder for all the frauds, scammers, illegals, and criminals out there

Me, I've got nothing to hide. The U.S. government knows where I live, the NYC governement knows where I retired to, the NY Sate goverment knows too, so does the Motor Vehicle, Social Services, Dept of State, Dept of Finance, Dept of Licensing, my HMO, the local Government, the tax assessor, building inspector, all the merchants I do business with, my employer, etc., etc. etc

I am supposed to be worried about a national database that spits out a card with less info. than I send to the Feds every year on my tax return???? I know some guys immediately think there will be checkpoints, tracking and monitioring. I don't agree. I think we can have a national ID card and maintain the current level of freedom.

Oh, and by the way how many of you guys us EZ Pass or some other device to pay tolls? This provides REAL TIME tracking of your vehicle to any minimum wage flunky at their office??? I mean if you want to be paranoid..maybe the CIA is tracking you as we speak. How hard would it be to hack EZ Passes DB??????? Wwhat about your Metro Pass or other public transportation payment card, are they tracking that??? How about the cameras that are all over major ciies, are they using facial recognition software to track you at lunch everyday??? Don't you have a cell phone, maybe they are triangulating you as I type this??? If it's GPS equipped they won't even need to do that.

Life is too short, and my particular life is too boring to warrant anyone being that interested in me. I think you guys are flattering yourselves when you think this is a sinister plot to track the citizens.

9mm1033 · May 10, 2005, 08:11 AM

Ditto what F350Lawman posted.

BreacherUp! · May 10, 2005, 10:38 AM

F350, well put

pepsquad · May 10, 2005, 10:46 AM

so true i'm so boring, no one wants to know what the hell is going on in my life nad if they want to know they can just ask.

cuate · May 10, 2005, 11:52 AM

" I don' got to show you no stinking ID". Somebody is always wanting your SS# or see your Drivers License and the SS# is bad because of identity theft and the crooks that are into that.

The main thing I see bad about a National ID Card is if you lose your wallet, leave it at home, whatever, eventually the
Feds may sack you up until you can either identify yourself with other items or have somebody come and identify you.
I hated those damned draft cards we used to have to carry.
I suppose because of crooks and illegal invaders it will become necessary to have another card in my wallet.

payne · May 10, 2005, 03:37 PM

WOW, guess the end of the world really is near. I'll agree with bigbore and the whole 666 theory. One more step to a world gov't :barf:

jonathon · May 10, 2005, 07:04 PM

F350, what you fail to get is that this is another step towards globalization. The federal government was never supposed to have the ability to whatch over individual citizens, and now they are trying to do so even more.

May as well through turn all the states, counties, and cities into one big hunky dory single government.

Trip20 · May 10, 2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathon

F350, what you fail to get is that this is another step towards globalization. The federal government was never supposed to have the ability to whatch over individual citizens, and now they are trying to do so even more.

What you fail to see is that the state (who are supposed to have the ability to watch over individual citizens) are failing to do the job. Step in the government.

Alright conspiracy theorists... yeah this card is going to lead to globalization... that just cracks me up.

I'm with F350 all the way on this. I've got nothing to hide. But I know plenty of people do - so I hope they all get busted - f**k'em.

I don't think my privacy or rights are being infringed upon in the least if they want to have a national ID card. Do you honestly think the federal government doens't have this info on you already? And if they do not,... don't you think they can easily get it?

Anything that can help catch illegals or other law breakers of all types - I'm all for it (with in reason - and this is definitely with in reason to me). If it makes it easier on law enforcement LE at a local/state/federal level then that's a plus.

shootinstudent · May 10, 2005, 07:24 PM

What on earth does a federally mandated standard form for state ID's have to do with globalization!?

Trip20 · May 10, 2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shootinstudent

What on earth does a federally mandated standard form for state ID's have to do with globalization!?

To the people that subscribe to this fantasy, it's more interesting than the alternative.

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 10, 2005, 07:33 PM

The problem with the National ID is that the next natural progression or even future subsequent progression is to require the ID in order to buy or sell within the local or even global economy. If you refuse the ID then you cannot buy clothes, food, shelter or anything else. It becomes a choice of whether you take the ID or not in order to live. At that point it is directly in parallel with the mark of the beast aka 666.

At that point for those who are Christian it becomes a choice between the removal of one's free will by having to take the ID in order to live OR to preserve your God-given free will by refusing the ID and relying on total faith in God to stop it all.

I know there are alot of people who will laugh or scoff at my opinion on the matter but the New Testament specifically points out that wise is the person who comes to understand what the mark of the beast is (logically a removal of free will)....and woe to the person who accepts the mark even in its most primordial form.

Signs are all there folks...just a matter of whether or not you choose to behave according to the will and laws of men or to the will and laws of God.

BreacherUp! · May 10, 2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

But I know plenty of people do - so I hope they all get busted - f**k'em.

Quote:

What on earth does a federally mandated standard form for state ID's have to do with globalization!?

LMFAO. You guys are cracking me up.....

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 10, 2005, 07:39 PM

ShootinStudent - Its all a matter of slow progression. If by chance you haven't noticed how historically when things happen in this country or in the world for that matter it always starts out as some innocent idea with probably good initial intention...but which later in slow almost imperceivable ways the people in powerful positions find ways to extend the innocene to be something oppressive and controlling of those people who are not.

It has always been the way of the world and there is no reason to think that a National ID is an exception to that axiom

BreacherUp! · May 10, 2005, 07:44 PM

BigBore, relax. I find it funny as [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color].

Quote:

If by chance you haven't noticed how historically when things happen in this country or in the world for that matter it always starts out as some innocent idea with probably good initial intention...but which later invariably people in powerful positions find ways to extend the innocene to be something oppressive and controlling of those people who are not.

You're absolutely right. Look at religion throughout history up to today.

Trip20 · May 10, 2005, 07:47 PM

BigBoreKindaGuy - I don't laugh or scoff at you,... I mean it's your opinion and that's fine.

I just can't make the "natural progression" from National ID card for purposes of keeping illegals and others who may want to do hard out of the country.............. to not being allowed to purchase food and clothes. It's waaaaaaay off in my mind. A little paranoid as well.
To deduce the latter from the former is skipping a thousand lifetimes in between in my opinion.

If I'm wrong I'll totally bring all my my firearms/ammo and we can build the bunker together. But I just don't see it happening that way.

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 10, 2005, 07:48 PM

BreacherUp - I went back and revised my message to direct my response to ShootinStudent after I realized he was the actual person you were responding to. You must have been posting to my response at teh same moment I was revising it to direct to the proper person.

BreacherUp! · May 10, 2005, 07:52 PM

BigBore, no worries.

jburtonpdx · May 10, 2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

What on earth does a federally mandated standard form for state ID's have to do with globalization!?

I dont know but this brings up the entire forms thing, and for cryin out loud the lines at the DMV are bad enough, now we are going to through in a bunch of federal crap in there also... Criminy the length of time spent in line alone is going to make me go underground....

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 10, 2005, 07:54 PM

Trip20 said: "...I just can't make the "natural progression" from National ID card for purposes of keeping illegals and others who may want to do hardm out fo the country.............. to not being allowed to purchase food and clothes. It's waaaaaaay off in my mind. A little paranoid as well.
To deduce the latter from the former is skipping a thousand lifetimes in between in my opinion."

To those who think change can only occur over the course of a 1000 lifetimes it would seem paranoid. But as history has also pointed out it there are moments in time when an event can occur that can change the course of history forever in just a very short days or months.

Given that this world is in one of its greatest moments of political flux ever experienced in the course of history then the likelyhood of some national or global event causing the EVOLUTION of an National ID to something greater than its original intent is very possible and probably just as probable.

Given that free-will is at stake I'd rather error on the side of "parnoia" and be watchful than to go along assuming "a 1000 lifetimes" as the rule and waking up one morning and discovering it is too late.

Trip20 · May 10, 2005, 07:58 PM

BigBoreKindaGuy - first of all "1000 lifetimes" is obviously an expression...

Secondly,

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBoreKindaGuy

Given that this world is in one of its greatest moments of political flux ever experienced in the course of history then the likelyhood of some national or global event causing the EVOLUTION of an National ID to something greater than its original intent is very possible and probably just as probable.

What then, would you propose, as a substitute to the suggestion of a National ID card, which will still fullfill it's original intent?

PS/edit: Can I call you BBKG (it's shorter than typing it all out

)

BigBoreKindaGuy · May 10, 2005, 08:03 PM

My suggestion is to leave things the way they are and start enforcing the laws that are already on the books. These laws have always been on the books but the CLU has caused the courts to redefine the laws to a point that the laws and/or the enforcement mechanisms have been completely neutralized.

BTW - I understood that "a 1000 lifetimes" is an expression but the essence of what you were saying is that alot of time would need to pass to logically jump a National ID to something beyond as it is being discussed here. You used a metaphor and I got it and responded by saying spontaneous events can change our way of life overnight. Chow!

May 9, 2005, 01:17 PM	#1
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	Real ID Cards, a threat to our a way of life! Tomorow, the Senate votes on Real ID. However, this bill has not been discussed. Not only that, but its hidden in a military spending bill, and no one wants to vote against it. www.unrealid.com __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

May 9, 2005, 09:49 PM	#3
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	How about 666? I think that its closer to that than 1984 or Fahrenheit 451. __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

May 9, 2005, 10:15 PM	#4
Wraith Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2004 Location: The Free State Posts: 498	Mark my words: I will never get a national ID. __________________ June 23, 2003 GRATZ et al. v. BOLLINGER et al. The day America died. Never Forget 9/11. Cold dead hands...

May 10, 2005, 12:09 AM	#5
F350Lawman Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2002 Location: NY Posts: 120	Every single person on this forum carries a drivers license or non-drivers ID as we speak now. If a national ID containing similar info is created.... no biggie. The only thing I want to see is it be required for airline travel, opening bank accounts, applying for social services, employment, etc, so it can be used to catch and deport illegals, wanted persons, etc. A card that has my photo, address and DOB and says that I am a legal resident of the U.S., I have no problem with that, throw my blood type and emergency contact on as well so that if I am seriously injured the can save time. I carry all of that and more now, the only thing is it is on different cards. I NEED them all with me 24/7 to verify my status as a driver, retired LEO, private investigator, pay social security, pistol permit holder, registered voter, etc. Without these ID's I can't travel on a plane, gain entrance to certain buildings etc. Let's make it easier for an officer in Wisconsin, a social services worker in Montana, or a poll worker in Iowa, to look at one card and tell if the guy from NY is wanted, is illegal, is on parole/probation, is on some watch list, owes 40,000 in child support, can't legally vote, etc. The way it is now there are a zilllion different IDs so it's harder to spot the frauds. Make the new card HARD TO FAKE, and use the latest in technology to connect the databases. As long as they don't change the laws regarding when LEO's can demand ID, I don't think it will change the law abiding citizens life one bit. When stopped under the common law right of inquiry you'll still be able to say..."no, go F youreslf to the LEO", if you choose. For most things we need to show ID for, us good citizens are already turning over info by showing proper ID, lets make it harder for all the frauds, scammers, illegals, and criminals out there Me, I've got nothing to hide. The U.S. government knows where I live, the NYC governement knows where I retired to, the NY Sate goverment knows too, so does the Motor Vehicle, Social Services, Dept of State, Dept of Finance, Dept of Licensing, my HMO, the local Government, the tax assessor, building inspector, all the merchants I do business with, my employer, etc., etc. etc I am supposed to be worried about a national database that spits out a card with less info. than I send to the Feds every year on my tax return???? I know some guys immediately think there will be checkpoints, tracking and monitioring. I don't agree. I think we can have a national ID card and maintain the current level of freedom. Oh, and by the way how many of you guys us EZ Pass or some other device to pay tolls? This provides REAL TIME tracking of your vehicle to any minimum wage flunky at their office??? I mean if you want to be paranoid..maybe the CIA is tracking you as we speak. How hard would it be to hack EZ Passes DB??????? Wwhat about your Metro Pass or other public transportation payment card, are they tracking that??? How about the cameras that are all over major ciies, are they using facial recognition software to track you at lunch everyday??? Don't you have a cell phone, maybe they are triangulating you as I type this??? If it's GPS equipped they won't even need to do that. Life is too short, and my particular life is too boring to warrant anyone being that interested in me. I think you guys are flattering yourselves when you think this is a sinister plot to track the citizens. __________________ S&W 1911SC/ Taurus PT145/ Kahr PM40/ Glock 19 w/night sights / Glock 19/ Ruger SPNY/ Ruger Service Six/ S&W Mod 64/ Grendel Mod 10

May 10, 2005, 08:11 AM	#6
9mm1033 Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2005 Location: A big city with far too many cars and people. Posts: 932	Ditto what F350Lawman posted. __________________ No one reads or cares what is written in ones signature box. So I'm not writing anything worth reading or remembering.

May 9, 2005, 09:40 PM	#2
thebucket Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Posts: 105	Fax sent! I should have copied by comment to post here, but oh well. National ID cards are a scary thing. We must work hard to prevent our country from slipping down the path to 1984 and Fahrenheit 451.

May 10, 2005, 10:38 AM	#7
BreacherUp! Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 566	F350, well put __________________ Life's tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid.

May 10, 2005, 10:46 AM	#8
pepsquad Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2004 Posts: 108	f350 so true i'm so boring, no one wants to know what the hell is going on in my life nad if they want to know they can just ask.

May 10, 2005, 11:52 AM	#9
cuate Junior member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Comanche Co. Texas Posts: 737	National ID " I don' got to show you no stinking ID". Somebody is always wanting your SS# or see your Drivers License and the SS# is bad because of identity theft and the crooks that are into that. The main thing I see bad about a National ID Card is if you lose your wallet, leave it at home, whatever, eventually the Feds may sack you up until you can either identify yourself with other items or have somebody come and identify you. I hated those damned draft cards we used to have to carry. I suppose because of crooks and illegal invaders it will become necessary to have another card in my wallet.

May 10, 2005, 03:37 PM	#10
payne Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: SE US Posts: 519	WOW, guess the end of the world really is near. I'll agree with bigbore and the whole 666 theory. One more step to a world gov't :barf: __________________ If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

May 10, 2005, 07:04 PM	#11
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	F350, what you fail to get is that this is another step towards globalization. The federal government was never supposed to have the ability to whatch over individual citizens, and now they are trying to do so even more. May as well through turn all the states, counties, and cities into one big hunky dory single government. __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

May 10, 2005, 07:24 PM	#13
shootinstudent Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Posts: 475	What on earth does a federally mandated standard form for state ID's have to do with globalization!?

May 10, 2005, 07:33 PM	#15
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	The problem with the National ID is that the next natural progression or even future subsequent progression is to require the ID in order to buy or sell within the local or even global economy. If you refuse the ID then you cannot buy clothes, food, shelter or anything else. It becomes a choice of whether you take the ID or not in order to live. At that point it is directly in parallel with the mark of the beast aka 666. At that point for those who are Christian it becomes a choice between the removal of one's free will by having to take the ID in order to live OR to preserve your God-given free will by refusing the ID and relying on total faith in God to stop it all. I know there are alot of people who will laugh or scoff at my opinion on the matter but the New Testament specifically points out that wise is the person who comes to understand what the mark of the beast is (logically a removal of free will)....and woe to the person who accepts the mark even in its most primordial form. Signs are all there folks...just a matter of whether or not you choose to behave according to the will and laws of men or to the will and laws of God. __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

May 10, 2005, 07:39 PM	#17
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	ShootinStudent - Its all a matter of slow progression. If by chance you haven't noticed how historically when things happen in this country or in the world for that matter it always starts out as some innocent idea with probably good initial intention...but which later in slow almost imperceivable ways the people in powerful positions find ways to extend the innocene to be something oppressive and controlling of those people who are not. It has always been the way of the world and there is no reason to think that a National ID is an exception to that axiom __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

May 10, 2005, 07:47 PM	#19
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	BigBoreKindaGuy - I don't laugh or scoff at you,... I mean it's your opinion and that's fine. I just can't make the "natural progression" from National ID card for purposes of keeping illegals and others who may want to do hard out of the country.............. to not being allowed to purchase food and clothes. It's waaaaaaay off in my mind. A little paranoid as well. To deduce the latter from the former is skipping a thousand lifetimes in between in my opinion. If I'm wrong I'll totally bring all my my firearms/ammo and we can build the bunker together. But I just don't see it happening that way.

May 10, 2005, 07:48 PM	#20
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	BreacherUp - I went back and revised my message to direct my response to ShootinStudent after I realized he was the actual person you were responding to. You must have been posting to my response at teh same moment I was revising it to direct to the proper person. __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

May 10, 2005, 07:52 PM	#21
BreacherUp! Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 566	BigBore, no worries. __________________ Life's tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid.

May 10, 2005, 07:54 PM	#23
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	Trip20 said: "...I just can't make the "natural progression" from National ID card for purposes of keeping illegals and others who may want to do hardm out fo the country.............. to not being allowed to purchase food and clothes. It's waaaaaaay off in my mind. A little paranoid as well. To deduce the latter from the former is skipping a thousand lifetimes in between in my opinion." To those who think change can only occur over the course of a 1000 lifetimes it would seem paranoid. But as history has also pointed out it there are moments in time when an event can occur that can change the course of history forever in just a very short days or months. Given that this world is in one of its greatest moments of political flux ever experienced in the course of history then the likelyhood of some national or global event causing the EVOLUTION of an National ID to something greater than its original intent is very possible and probably just as probable. Given that free-will is at stake I'd rather error on the side of "parnoia" and be watchful than to go along assuming "a 1000 lifetimes" as the rule and waking up one morning and discovering it is too late. __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy

May 10, 2005, 08:03 PM	#25
BigBoreKindaGuy Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Posts: 175	My suggestion is to leave things the way they are and start enforcing the laws that are already on the books. These laws have always been on the books but the CLU has caused the courts to redefine the laws to a point that the laws and/or the enforcement mechanisms have been completely neutralized. BTW - I understood that "a 1000 lifetimes" is an expression but the essence of what you were saying is that alot of time would need to pass to logically jump a National ID to something beyond as it is being discussed here. You used a metaphor and I got it and responded by saying spontaneous events can change our way of life overnight. Chow! __________________ BigBoreKindaGuy