Magazine myths

[perception]

I have always wondered about carrying full magazines and its effect on the mag springs, and many others have too. Opinion on this subject is pretty varied, but the general consensus seemed to be load em up and leave em. I found a real article on the subject, and it cleared some things up for me.

The shooting sports are full of some of the most knowledgeable and capable people you'll meet anywhere. I've been impressed consistently with the abilities of those I meet at the range to diagnose and fix a gun problem with as little as some spray lube and a cotton swab. However, sometimes a myth will creep into the folklore.

The magazine spring myth has been around for many years and is growing in popularity. It goes something like this: "You should unload your magazines when they're not in use or the spring will weaken causing failures to feed." This has gone as far as shooting competitors actually unloading their magazines between stages to extend the life of their springs. A variant of this myth is: "You should never load a magazine to capacity and should always leave it one round short." What if you need that round some day?

Recently, I read an article in a gun magazine suggesting you rotate your magazines so the ones not in use can "recover and rest." The same author uses the phrase "spring-set" to describe weakness of a spring because it was compressed for a long time. Hogwash. There's nothing further from the truth. Springs don't care how long they're compressed and don't require rest, recreation or even a vacation from time to time.


To put this one to rest, you have to understand creep. Creep is the slow flow of a non-ferric metal like copper, brass and lead under force. At temperatures outside of a furnace, steel doesn't have any appreciable creep. Under most conditions, steel flexes and then returns to its original shape. When pushed past its elastic limit, steel will bend and not return to its original shape. All designers of well-made magazines make sure the spring never approaches the elastic limit when the magazine is fully loaded. Honest. This means the spring will not weaken when the magazine is fully loaded -- not even over an extended time. Like 50 years. American Handgunner recently ran a story about a magazine full of .45 ACP that had been sitting since WWII and it ran just fine on the first try. So there you go.

Now that the light of truth is leaking out, lets talk about what is causing failures to feed. The only way to weaken a magazine spring is to flex it past its normal range (elastic limit). If this is happening, somebody is trying to overload a magazine or has "adjusted" it by bending the spring. Both of these could cause feed failures. Shame on you if you're a spring bender.

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.

We tell police officers if they keep loaded magazines, take a few seconds to "cycle" the ammo. Periodically unload the mag and reload it in a different sequence. This movement will allow the bullets to be in different parts of the magazine and help eliminate creasing.

At STI, Dave Skinner, President and CEO says, "Personally, I rotate my 'under the bed' and 'under the seat' mags about every six months. I always empty them the 'fun' way and have never had a failure." Given what we learned above, this sounds like a good idea. Smith and Wesson customer service also says magazines can stay loaded indefinitely without hurting the spring.

As we add force onto a spring, it will displace the same amount for each amount of force we add. This is true until the spring passes a certain point called the elastic limit. Robert Hooke discovered this theory back in 1660. Hooke's Law states: "If the applied forces on a body are not too large, the deformations resulting are directly proportional to the forces producing them." Which means, in actual human being language, if we load a spring past its elastic limit, it permanently deforms. It still provides a force against the load but the force is no longer proportional. If this happens, when we unload the spring (such as when we empty a magazine that has been over-loaded) the spring never returns to a state where it can provide the same load for the same amount of displacement.

Trust Us

When a magazine manufacturer designs a spring, they plan for a preload. The spring is already compressed some in the magazine. On the curve below, this would be Point A. The spring compression would be designed to be below the Elastic Limit. When fully compressed, the spring would be at Point B. If the spring is ever compressed past the elastic limit, say to Point C, it won't ever behave the same. Like a recalcitrant lazy Uncle, it will have a lower spring force for each amount of displacement. On the drawing, the spring would now cycle between points D and E. This means that -- particularly with the last bullet or two -- the force pushing the bullet up would be less and lo-and-behold, a mis-feed might occur.

When somebody stretches your spring to "fix" your magazine, they are trying to get you back on the original curve. They may get pretty close, however, it's unlikely the spring will ever perform to its original design. The elastic limit is now shifted lower and your magazine spring may fail to perform fairly quickly.

Having said all this, if you have a magazine that isn't feeding right, what should you do? First, disassemble the magazine and clean it thoroughly. Then try it with new, factory ammunition in a freshly cleaned gun. This takes away some of the possible causes. If you are still having feed problems, send it back. Even the low cost, after-market magazine manufacturers will fix the problem at no cost to you other than shipping. If it's a magazine from the gun's manufacturer, let them troubleshoot and repair the problem. Otherwise, toss the mag. It's not worth risking your life to save a few bucks. And that's the truth.

RELATED ARTICLE: Definitions

Creep: The flow or plastic deformation of metals held for long periods of time at stresses lower than the normal yield strength.

Elastic Limit: The maximum stress that material will stand before permanent deformation occurs.

Yield Strength: The stress at which the metal changes from elastic to plastic in behavior, i.e., takes a permanent set.

Permanent Set: Non-elastic or plastic, deformation of metal under stress, after passing the elastic limit.

Magazine Recommendations

* Clean your magazines when they get gritty. Apply oil then remove all excess. Oil attracts dirt that may cause malfunction.

* If you find rust on the spring, this is culprit. Rust changes the thickness of the metal and reduces the force applied to the follower. Cleaning off the rust may help. For a gun you depend on, replace the spring. All the major brands and most of the smaller ones have replacement mag springs available or try Wolff Springs.

* If you keep a magazine loaded for long periods, rotate the rounds every few months. If you carry a pistol on the job or in your car, cycle the ammo frequently. These actions prevent creases from forming which may cause a misfeed.

* If you experience feed problems, first clean your magazines and weapon. Fire a couple magazines of new factory ammo to see if this resolves the problem. If not send the magazine back to the manufacturer -- or toss it.

COPYRIGHT 2003 Publishers' Development Corporation
COPYRIGHT 2003 Gale Group

article

[sig-it]

thank you....

only problem now is....how to stop my heel from kicking my ass.
once a week i go to the bank, open the security deposit box and rotate a clip. not only that, but i do the same at home and in the car.

now that ive got about an extra 30 minutes a week....i will finally have all the TFL time i always wanted......THANK YOU

[JohnKSa]

Amazing! I wonder why they don't make all springs so they don't ever wear out from being compressed?

I wonder why the article's author didn't ask Mr. Carlton Nether of Beretta why Beretta stocks and sells replacement magazine springs since Beretta magazine springs never take a set or wear out?

You guys think that S&W stocks replacement magazine springs? I'll bet they do--but you gotta wonder why if they say that they'll never take a set.

Any of you guys who've ever had to replace a mag spring, the truth's out--it can only be because you were "trying to overload a magazine or ... "adjusted" it by bending the spring".

I guess someone should tell Wolff that they're officially out of business.

[45 Fu]

I don't think the point is that springs will never wear out, just that there is no real danger of a compressed spring not functioning as long as the magazine is well maintained. As the article stated, rust, others who try to "help" the spring out, and high shooting volume are why springs are kept in stock.

I have never seen a well maintianed magazine fail, under any circumstance, simply because it stayed loaded too long. If you have good magazines and maintain them, all this rotation business is much ado about nothing. If it makes you feel better, go ahead - but you're not accomplishing anything real by it.

[gudel]

Carlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA

They have customer service? That's news to some.

[Jeff Loveless]

That may all be true - I haven't done any intense research but I do know that a few months ago I sat down and cleaned my mags after a winter of dropping them in the mud from time to time. Ok, they weren't that bad, but they needed cleaning. Point is, about the 2nd or 3rd one was a known newer one. I quickly noticed that the spring was longer by about 2-3 inches. I compared all of them then (about a dozen) and all were shorter to some degree than the newer one. None were the exact same. They did still work, but some set or compression had definitley occurred. I routinely leave some loaded all the time and do rotate my carry mags with the rest. In fact, half of them had had new springs and followers installed about 2 years prior to all this.

To make matters worse, I manually stretched the short ones to match the new longer spring. Shame on me. But they work. And they're all the same length now.

This is just my experience.

[DPris]

Not to pick on Glock, but their mag springs definitely take on a set, and that's not with overloading, stretching, poorly maintained mags, or excessive use.
The only malfunction I've ever had with my old issue 17 was a round that tied up inside the magazine body, about an inch down.
Once I realized the springs were taking a set, I started carrying with one less than capacity for the rest of the time I carried that gun (which I still have), and started rotating mags more frequently.
I'd suggest that not all mag springs are the same in steel and durability, and some types may be more or less affected by being left fully compressed for extreme periods of time. Singlestacks may hold up longer.
Nothing to lose sleep over, I just rotate mags in any pistol I carry periodically.
My choice, and possibly a waste of time, but I don't mind.
The "creased cases" theory I've never seen or heard of. But, might be a Beretta only problem, I've never carried a full-sized Beretta.
Denis

[chris in va]

I can definitely verify my Wolff and stock springs in my CZ and P11 are weaker than new when the rounds are left in the mags for extended periods. When I take them out, the new spring is much longer than the used one and has less power.

[JohnKSa]

Ok, all sarcasm aside (that's really hard for me!)

Springs are not all the same, magazines are not all the same. Spring metal is not always the same quality.

Those guys are talking about ideal situations and designs. It's true that if you don't compress a spring beyond its design limit, and if the spring quality is good, compressing it won't significantly alter its performance--not even if you leave it compressed for a very long time.

However, if the magazine is designed so that the springs is overcompressed (definitely the case in some double-column magazines I've seen) then leaving them compressed a long time will definitely affect them.

OR if the spring quality is not top-notch, they can take a set even if they're not overcompressed.

It's not a coincidence that most of the stories about magazines being loaded for years and still working fine, deal with single column magazines and that people talking about springs weakening or taking a set after being loaded for relatively short times are talking about either poor quality magazines or double-column mags. Most double column designs require that the spring be completely coil-bound when the mag is full, and also the actual spring designs tend to stress the spring metal more.

In the world of spring piston airguns, the spring is king. Springs are made of quality materials, and everything possible is done to enhance performance and spring life. Nevertheless, even relatively high-quality springs will take a set if the gun is left cocked for long periods. The highest quality springs take less of a set, and will even tend to "recover" some of their strength when they are allowed to relax, but it's very easy to prove that leaving the springs compressed weakens them, and that leaving them compressed longer weakens them more. Shooting the airgun (compression/decompression cycling) has much less effect on spring performance than leaving them compressed.

[45 Fu]

I believe you have a good point on the difference between single stack and staggered mags. It would seem that the stress applied to the spring in a single stack mag would be more centered (for lack of a correct technical term) than on a staggered magazine, where the stress might not be so in line (there's another non-technical term).

The only magazines I've ever changed the springs in were a well-used first generation Glock 17 that I bought used. They worked fine, but I had no idea how well the previous owner treated his mags. Since then I have have left several Glock 22 and 23 mags loaded for extended periods (both full capacity and Klinton 10 rounders) with no problem. Perhaps the change in Glocks magazines and/or followers fixed whatever problem was there and I came along afterwards.

[LHB1]

Quote: "I found a real article on the subject"

Perception,
Who was the author of this article? Some of us have learned the hard way that you can't trust everything you read in articles/books. Others of us are just naturally suspicious. Personally, I have difficulty accepting statements that contradict my experience or "common sense" unless the book/article is authored by someone whose expertise I respect. There are many authors of gun/shooting related articles, including some nationally known "experts", whose expertise and opinions I do NOT respect.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

[Handy]

Pistol springs really work hard because they work in limited space, so they must travel from full compression to full expansion. That's alot to ask.

Funny thing is, even rifle mag springs wear out, despite having much more room to work. Neither are like the suspension springs in a car, which only use a short working distance within their overall length. And yet those springs wear out, too!


Springs wear out - especially mag springs. Some last much longer than others, but you can't continually flex a piece of wire with zero effect. The author is full of it.

[Jehzsa]

Wolff's FAQs;
4. How often should I change my springs?
Wolff Gunsprings are made with the highest grade materials and workmanship. Most Wolff [recoil] springs will remain stable for many thousands of rounds. The performance of your gun is the best indicator of when a spring needs to be replaced. Factors such as increasing ejection distance, improper ejection and/or breaching, lighter hammer indents on primers, misfires, poor cartridge feeding from magazines, frequent jams, stove pipes and other malfunctions are all possible indications of fatigued springs or improper springs. Springs that are subject to higher stress applications such as magazine springs, striker springs and recoil springs will require more frequent replacement than other less stressed springs. Most Wolff recoil springs should be capable of 3000-5000 rounds minimum before changing is required. Some recoil springs in compact pistols, especially where dual springs are replaced by a single spring may require changing after 750 - 1500 rounds. Changes in your firearm's performance are one of the best indicators that a change is needed.

5. Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds? How often should I change magazine springs?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as law enforcement applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs which are loaded up only when shooting. Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. Older designs where maximum capacity was not the goal such as the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was a lot of room for a lot of spring which reduced the overall stress on the spring. In recent hi-capacity magazines, the magazines were designed to hold more rounds with less spring material. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but is not always practical. In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular shooting will verify reliability and regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs.

6. My spring got shorter after I used it for a short time. Is it bad?
Most new springs will take a set when they are first compressed. That means they will shorten up. This is a normal event and you should not be immediately alarmed. The greater the stress on the spring, generally the more set that will occur. All Wolff springs take this set into consideration. The ratings of the springs you receive are the ratings after the set has occurred. After set has taken place, the spring should remain essentially stable.

HTH

[Dave Sample]

WoWeeeee! I started the "load the magazine one load short" myth. I carry my Colt LW Commander with a CMC Power Magazine with 7 rounds in it. Number 8 is in the chamber. If I have to off-load it I have a place for number 8 in the magazine.
I have several reasons for doing this, but it relates to being a pistolsmith and knowing how the 1911 semi-automatic pistol functions so I won't bore you with my reasons for the way I carry. Let me just say that the "Myth" works for me.
Magazine springs are the least of my worries as I have never had that problem with the guns I build and use.

[perception]

LHB1, the article is from American Handgunner, and is written by John S. Layman.

Well, due to all of the responses, it looks like it may still be worth it to load one short, as all of your real world experience does not seem to quite go along with the article. Thanks for the discussion.

[DPris]

Not to question a magazine writer ( ), but another potential problem is involved with that rotating-the-cartridges idea.
If you overdo it and chamber the same round several times, you risk setting the bullet back in the case and causing excessive pressures.
Back when I had to go through periodic inspections at work, I tried not to chamber the same round after the emptied pistol passed inspection more than twice. How many times you can do that varies, I wouldn't do it a lot to the same cartridge. You don't have a roll crimp on autopistol brass, a taper crimp isn't quite as resistant to bullet setback as a roll crimp usually is.
Not a major factor in the everyday life of an auto, but still relevant to the suggestion made by the author.
Still shaking my head over those "creased" cases.
Denis

[swjr72]

If you maintain any tool it is much likely to last a lot longer

I do rotate about once a month

[chaim]

Something I've been thinking about, any engineers out there who might know?

What is harder on the mag springs? Keeping it loaded and keeping the springs compressed, or rotating/changing out the mags and loading and unloading the mags causing the spring to alternate often between compressed and "relaxed" states? It seems to me (with no engineering or physics background, it is just my impression) that leaving the mags in one state is probably easier on the spring than having it frequently change from one state to another.

[packa45]

I've kept the 12 round mags for my Taurus 24/7 loaded at 10rounds and one in the spout. I guess I bought into the myth as well but I've never had a round fail to feed either.

[sig-it]

chaim....

hypotheticly, the less time that the spring is compressed, the less wear on the spring.....the only states that seriously affect a spring (hypotheticly) are when its in compression and when its stretched past its natural legnth.....

so if these premises are true...THEN, a fully loaded mag will wear faster than one that gets cycled due to the simple fact that it is under compression for more time....

...and i was hoping i diddnt have to keep up with rotation...

[Handy]

Despite some of the theories, I think it is safe to assume that BOTH being statically compressed (loaded) AND being cycled affect spring life. If I had to guess, I'd say "leave 'em loaded" and avoid the stress of cycling on top of the stress of being compressed.

When the magazine is unloaded, it isn't resting or anything like that. Its not like giving the mag a refreshing nights sleep, so I don't know why you'd bother. It would make more sense to me to shoot out your carry mag once in awhile (to check its functioning), then load it back up. Switch mags when the first ones hiccup, and buy a new spring after you've switched it out.

But there's only one way to determine how your mag springs are doing - by using them.

[JohnKSa]

I don't think that downloading most single column mags is worthwhile. I do think that downloading some double-column mags is a good thing.

I saw a writeup on a torture test of some hi-cap pistol that I thought was quite interesting.

About 1/3 of the way through the test, the magazines which had been new at the beginning of the test began to have problems feeding the last round or two. The mags were replaced and the test was continued, but this time, the mags were never fully loaded. They downloaded them by one or two rounds--can't remember which. They continued through the rest of the test with NO more failures. The downloaded mags held up twice as long as long as the fully loaded mags and were still going strong at the end of the test.

Clearly, in this case, the springs were receiving significantly more stress from that last little bit of compression. The mags were not being left loaded, they were pretty much being emptied as soon as they were loaded. So cycling can wear out a spring if it's overcompressed.

Going back to the spring airgun example, one can shoot an airgun a great deal without wearing the spring significantly, but leaving it cocked for even a few hours will result in a measurable decrease in performance. Clearly in that case cycling is less harmful than being compressed for a long period. Interestingly enough, even though these springs generally have a very significant amount of pre-loading, I've seen tests that show that good quality springs will "recover" some of that lost performance if the airgun is allowed to sit in the uncocked state for awhile. I'm not sure the mechanism that's causing that since they're certainly not fully decompressed, but it's a measurable effect.

So it's not a simple matter of which is worse, cycling or long periods of compression. It has more to do with design and spring quality, IMO.

There's one more thing to consider. Even good quality springs are pretty cheap. Keep a bunch on hand and replace them at the first inkling that they're weakening.

[greygost]

i havent fired allot of pistols but i have fired an m-16 ALLOT!! and thats the only weapon i have seen missfeed on a fully loaded mag hence the install of a forward assist.but thats well after 500 rounds and using mags that are who knows how old,sand blasted and beaten to death. i know there is a big diffrence between an m-16 and pistols but they are still magazines. i say keep your mags full and practice with them if you shoot regularly you will know when its time to get a new one.

[EdWilson]

You can actualy learn something on the internet. Interesting stuff. Apply to Combat Handguns for a freelance writer gig.

[JohnKSa]

John S. Layman... Took me awhile to get it.