Air Force pilot handguns

Full Metal Jacket · June 17, 2005, 11:51 PM

What do Air Force pilots get in terms of handguns while they are in the cockpit, and/or roaming the air base? Are they armed at all? Do they simply get a carbine or smg instead of a pistol while in flight?

thanks.

Eghad · June 17, 2005, 11:57 PM

I am sure there is a standard sidearm they issue to pilots..... usually in combat zones you tote the thing with you. Otherwise its usually turned back into the arms room till you need it again. I had read where some pilots purchased thier own pistols.....

jonathon · June 17, 2005, 11:59 PM

I would almost bet its the same for everyone else, the M9..

Dfariswheel · June 17, 2005, 11:59 PM

My nephew recently left the Air Force to fly commercial.

He tells me that the standard service M9 Beretta is the issue weapon of pilots while flying over hostile territory.

Eghad · June 18, 2005, 12:08 AM

I own a 92F and it aint the worst thing in the world to have.... mine has been very reliable in the last 12-13 years.

I think earlier during Desert Storm they still issued S&W snubbies? I read some pilots purchased Glocks on thier own.

yayarx7 · June 18, 2005, 12:20 AM

I never have warmed up to the M9, but I can sure shoot it well. It is the only issue sidearm for us Air Force types, even the pilots.

Full Metal Jacket · June 18, 2005, 12:28 AM

Shouldn't the pilots be able to choose what they want to carry? I mean, Uncle Sam trusts them with $50,000,000 jets, but they can't bring their $800
1911 or $500 glock?

SCCop · June 18, 2005, 04:02 AM

I was USAF once upon a time. They're issued M9's and don't normally carry unless it's over hostile territory. They don't carry stateside and the only time they carry around the base is when they're in a forward location where everybody's packing. They can pretty much carry what they want if they can acquire it.

dr.magnum · June 18, 2005, 05:52 AM

One of the wholesalers(SOG,CDNN,etc) had S&W model 13's for sale awhile back advertised as ex-pilot's guns.

Jim Watson · June 18, 2005, 06:41 AM

It was the Air Force that started the changeover to 9mms. They selected the Beretta to replace their .38 revolvers which were wearing out. The Army didn't want to be left out so they insisted the trials be run all over again for them. Same story as with M16.

I would be leery of anybody selling S&W Model 13s as USAF issue. I know of no .357 Magnums on issue. The military M13 was an entirely different gun, an Airweight Military and Police .38 Special, known as the Aircrewman. Most of those were scrapped because their aluminum cylinders were not strong enough for the +P type loads the AF was testing at the time, and they were too cheap to pay $50 each for steel cylinders.

N.H. Yankee · June 18, 2005, 08:49 AM

Jim Watson got it right, I am retired Air Force and the Air force used the S&W airweight 38 since as far back as the Vietnam era if memory serves me right.

Full Metal Jacket · June 18, 2005, 10:01 AM

so, if a pilot where to fly over hostile territory today, could he pack pretty much whatever he wanted, assuming he/she was of decent ranking?
?

Shorts · June 18, 2005, 10:03 AM

The sidearms my husband and crew carried during flights was issued and had to be turned back in. They are Navy.

liliysdad · June 18, 2005, 10:46 AM

Dosent the M11/ P228 fit in here somewhere? I coulda swore the reason it was adopted was for smaller stature/ female/ concealed/ pilot uses, but I very well may be wrong.

Sulaco2 · June 18, 2005, 03:56 PM

Some of the CID and plain cloths Crim investigators carried or were issued Sigs, but what your gender or stature is has nothing to do with it, but then when I was in the Force it was .38 mod 10's with that crap round nose lead under sized .38 spl round that literarily rattled down the barrel that was issue. Made for some interesting qual scores

IZinterrogator · June 18, 2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Some of the CID and plain cloths Crim investigators carried or were issued Sigs, but what your gender or stature is has nothing to do with it

Yup, if you want an M11, you usually have to carry some kind of badge, be it MP (on a special assignment), CID, or CI (in plain clothes).

SCCop · June 19, 2005, 02:11 AM

Some of the older, or more history inclined, folks may be able to help me out here. I think some "aircrew" or "airman" model revolvers may be the old snubs (don't know the model) that had the cut-away triggerguards and some other "homemade" customizing.

LAK · June 19, 2005, 03:47 AM

Air Force may have issued some 2" Model 15s to aircrew. The 4" Model 15 version was standard Security Police issue in the 1970s and 80s until the change to the 9mm Berettas; the 2" was sometimes issued for plaincloth wear - and OSI no doubt used them as well.

Slateman · June 19, 2005, 02:09 PM

Hey guys, my uncle is in the Air Force. He flys C-5s out of Dover. Actually asked him about this a little while ago.

The decision on sidearms is made at the squadron level. His squadron elected to carr browning hi-powers. Now, if the pilot/crew really wants to, he/she can carr whatever they want to. They just have to pay for it out of their own pocket and still qualify on the standard issue sidearm.

It will almost always be in 9mm caliber, simply because thats whats going to be most available.

And by the way, my uncle has told me that the crew chief will regularly pack an m16 and a 12 guage. "Just in case"

Sulaco2 · June 19, 2005, 06:02 PM

Slateman that's a hell of a change since I got out, but in any case the would seem to be for flying personnel and/or officers. Us grunts in the sand bag hotels got the revolvers and m16's....Never in six years heard of anybody being able to purchase and carry a private gun, especially a single action! You sure?

Shorts · June 19, 2005, 06:05 PM

Well, I think if you were to purchase your own gun for duty use, it gets to live under lock down on base. It's got to be "approved" before going on any flight.

progunner1957 · June 19, 2005, 07:49 PM

I don't get it... If an officer and pilot is going to stick his/her sphincter out to get it shot off, why shouldn't they be able to carry what they want???

Carry the M9 or whatever the squadron issues in addition to the pistol of your choice!! If one is good, two has GOT to be better!!

While we are at it, ANYONE in uniform (AKA with a target on their back and front) should be able to carry ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME, period!!
Yes, folk - even on board "The Government's" holy gun-free commercial airliners :barf: . Not just officers - all active duty military, even the lowly one stripe enlisted people. After all, we ARE at war...

Slateman · June 19, 2005, 07:50 PM

Well it was kind of a don't ask don't tell sort of thing. I mean, the pilot should be comfortable with what he has to physically carry. And really, if the pilot is shot down and has to use his sidearm, he's in deep stuff.

What comes aboard the air craft is pretty much under the discretion of the craft commander. Esp. on a cargo plane. Now when there is an inspection, you can bet your but that everyone is carrying standard issue. The squadron or wing makes the decision on that. I know for a fact that in my uncle's

I'm close friends with a marine and an army grunt. Both are not exactly impressed with the M9. The army infantryman has asked about the possibility of getting a .45 to him.

My uncle also told me an intersting little tid bit. As most of you know, the Geneva Convention prevents the use of hollow points. However, when the my uncle is in flight, his air crew is allowed to use them because it lessens the chance of punching a whole in the aircraft. But, when, say the crew chief gets out of the plane, he's supposed to switch magazines to the regular ball ammo. At least, he's supposed to

liliysdad · June 19, 2005, 08:49 PM

Slateman, Im not saying your full of crap......

But I am.

yayarx7 · June 19, 2005, 09:16 PM

I gotta call BS on that one as well dude. After 4 years USAF and 5 in the TXANG I think I safely say that I do not believe the part about the individual choosing their own weapons or the crew chief's 12 gauge. 90% of UTC's either have the M9 or the M16A2 as the primary weapon. Even the logistics of AFQC's for every conceivable sidearm is mind-boggling. I have heard of some Security Forces types have to qualify with the 12 gauge but I believe that is for DOD base security. ( I looked it up and only one member of the SF squadron needs to be 12 ga qualified) The only 12 gauge I have ever seen on an air base belongs to the guy that shot it to chase off the birds on the runway. I could be wrong though.

June 17, 2005, 11:51 PM	#1
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	Air Force pilot handguns What do Air Force pilots get in terms of handguns while they are in the cockpit, and/or roaming the air base? Are they armed at all? Do they simply get a carbine or smg instead of a pistol while in flight? thanks.

June 17, 2005, 11:57 PM	#2
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	I am sure there is a standard sidearm they issue to pilots..... usually in combat zones you tote the thing with you. Otherwise its usually turned back into the arms room till you need it again. I had read where some pilots purchased thier own pistols..... __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

June 17, 2005, 11:59 PM	#3
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	I would almost bet its the same for everyone else, the M9.. __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

June 18, 2005, 12:08 AM	#5
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	I own a 92F and it aint the worst thing in the world to have.... mine has been very reliable in the last 12-13 years. I think earlier during Desert Storm they still issued S&W snubbies? I read some pilots purchased Glocks on thier own. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member Last edited by Eghad; June 18, 2005 at 07:03 AM.

June 18, 2005, 12:20 AM	#6
yayarx7 Member Join Date: December 2, 2002 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 46	I never have warmed up to the M9, but I can sure shoot it well. It is the only issue sidearm for us Air Force types, even the pilots. __________________ Scott.

June 17, 2005, 11:59 PM	#4
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	My nephew recently left the Air Force to fly commercial. He tells me that the standard service M9 Beretta is the issue weapon of pilots while flying over hostile territory.

June 18, 2005, 12:28 AM	#7
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	Shouldn't the pilots be able to choose what they want to carry? I mean, Uncle Sam trusts them with $50,000,000 jets, but they can't bring their $800 1911 or $500 glock?

June 18, 2005, 04:02 AM	#8
SCCop Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2005 Posts: 239	I was USAF once upon a time. They're issued M9's and don't normally carry unless it's over hostile territory. They don't carry stateside and the only time they carry around the base is when they're in a forward location where everybody's packing. They can pretty much carry what they want if they can acquire it. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Teddy Roosevelt

June 18, 2005, 05:52 AM	#9
dr.magnum Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2004 Location: S.W. Missouri Posts: 359	One of the wholesalers(SOG,CDNN,etc) had S&W model 13's for sale awhile back advertised as ex-pilot's guns. __________________ There are only two tools you really need: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and should, use WD-40 If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.

June 18, 2005, 06:41 AM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,548	It was the Air Force that started the changeover to 9mms. They selected the Beretta to replace their .38 revolvers which were wearing out. The Army didn't want to be left out so they insisted the trials be run all over again for them. Same story as with M16. I would be leery of anybody selling S&W Model 13s as USAF issue. I know of no .357 Magnums on issue. The military M13 was an entirely different gun, an Airweight Military and Police .38 Special, known as the Aircrewman. Most of those were scrapped because their aluminum cylinders were not strong enough for the +P type loads the AF was testing at the time, and they were too cheap to pay $50 each for steel cylinders.

June 18, 2005, 08:49 AM	#11
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	Jim Watson got it right, I am retired Air Force and the Air force used the S&W airweight 38 since as far back as the Vietnam era if memory serves me right. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

June 18, 2005, 10:01 AM	#12
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	so, if a pilot where to fly over hostile territory today, could he pack pretty much whatever he wanted, assuming he/she was of decent ranking? ?

June 18, 2005, 10:03 AM	#13
Shorts Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 1,484	The sidearms my husband and crew carried during flights was issued and had to be turned back in. They are Navy.

June 18, 2005, 10:46 AM	#14
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	Dosent the M11/ P228 fit in here somewhere? I coulda swore the reason it was adopted was for smaller stature/ female/ concealed/ pilot uses, but I very well may be wrong.

June 18, 2005, 03:56 PM	#15
Sulaco2 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,247	Ex Force Some of the CID and plain cloths Crim investigators carried or were issued Sigs, but what your gender or stature is has nothing to do with it, but then when I was in the Force it was .38 mod 10's with that crap round nose lead under sized .38 spl round that literarily rattled down the barrel that was issue. Made for some interesting qual scores

June 19, 2005, 02:11 AM	#17
SCCop Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2005 Posts: 239	Some of the older, or more history inclined, folks may be able to help me out here. I think some "aircrew" or "airman" model revolvers may be the old snubs (don't know the model) that had the cut-away triggerguards and some other "homemade" customizing. __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." Teddy Roosevelt

June 19, 2005, 03:47 AM	#18
LAK Junior member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Posts: 2,251	Air Force may have issued some 2" Model 15s to aircrew. The 4" Model 15 version was standard Security Police issue in the 1970s and 80s until the change to the 9mm Berettas; the 2" was sometimes issued for plaincloth wear - and OSI no doubt used them as well.

June 19, 2005, 02:09 PM	#19
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 323	Hey guys, my uncle is in the Air Force. He flys C-5s out of Dover. Actually asked him about this a little while ago. The decision on sidearms is made at the squadron level. His squadron elected to carr browning hi-powers. Now, if the pilot/crew really wants to, he/she can carr whatever they want to. They just have to pay for it out of their own pocket and still qualify on the standard issue sidearm. It will almost always be in 9mm caliber, simply because thats whats going to be most available. And by the way, my uncle has told me that the crew chief will regularly pack an m16 and a 12 guage. "Just in case"

June 19, 2005, 06:02 PM	#20
Sulaco2 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,247	Slateman that's a hell of a change since I got out, but in any case the would seem to be for flying personnel and/or officers. Us grunts in the sand bag hotels got the revolvers and m16's....Never in six years heard of anybody being able to purchase and carry a private gun, especially a single action! You sure?

June 19, 2005, 06:05 PM	#21
Shorts Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 1,484	Well, I think if you were to purchase your own gun for duty use, it gets to live under lock down on base. It's got to be "approved" before going on any flight.

June 19, 2005, 07:49 PM	#22
progunner1957 Junior member Join Date: November 9, 2004 Location: USA - east of the continental divide Posts: 924	All guns, all the time!! I don't get it... If an officer and pilot is going to stick his/her sphincter out to get it shot off, why shouldn't they be able to carry what they want??? Carry the M9 or whatever the squadron issues in addition to the pistol of your choice!! If one is good, two has GOT to be better!! While we are at it, ANYONE in uniform (AKA with a target on their back and front) should be able to carry ANYTHING, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME, period!! Yes, folk - even on board "The Government's" holy gun-free commercial airliners :barf: . Not just officers - all active duty military, even the lowly one stripe enlisted people. After all, we ARE at war...

June 19, 2005, 07:50 PM	#23
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 323	Well it was kind of a don't ask don't tell sort of thing. I mean, the pilot should be comfortable with what he has to physically carry. And really, if the pilot is shot down and has to use his sidearm, he's in deep stuff. What comes aboard the air craft is pretty much under the discretion of the craft commander. Esp. on a cargo plane. Now when there is an inspection, you can bet your but that everyone is carrying standard issue. The squadron or wing makes the decision on that. I know for a fact that in my uncle's I'm close friends with a marine and an army grunt. Both are not exactly impressed with the M9. The army infantryman has asked about the possibility of getting a .45 to him. My uncle also told me an intersting little tid bit. As most of you know, the Geneva Convention prevents the use of hollow points. However, when the my uncle is in flight, his air crew is allowed to use them because it lessens the chance of punching a whole in the aircraft. But, when, say the crew chief gets out of the plane, he's supposed to switch magazines to the regular ball ammo. At least, he's supposed to

June 19, 2005, 08:49 PM	#24
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	Slateman, Im not saying your full of crap...... But I am.

June 19, 2005, 09:16 PM	#25
yayarx7 Member Join Date: December 2, 2002 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 46	I gotta call BS on that one as well dude. After 4 years USAF and 5 in the TXANG I think I safely say that I do not believe the part about the individual choosing their own weapons or the crew chief's 12 gauge. 90% of UTC's either have the M9 or the M16A2 as the primary weapon. Even the logistics of AFQC's for every conceivable sidearm is mind-boggling. I have heard of some Security Forces types have to qualify with the 12 gauge but I believe that is for DOD base security. ( I looked it up and only one member of the SF squadron needs to be 12 ga qualified) The only 12 gauge I have ever seen on an air base belongs to the guy that shot it to chase off the birds on the runway. I could be wrong though. __________________ Scott.