Clarifications for DOA/SA/DA-SA

Full Metal Jacket · July 1, 2005, 10:35 PM

Some questions about double action only, double action/single action, and single action only.

Tell me if this is correct: (I think some of it is wrong, so I expect corrections)

DOA- Cannot be manually cocked by racking the slide, must have extended trigger pull. Will not cock itself on the next round either.

DA/SA- Can either be cocked by long trigger pull or racking of the slide. Either way, the gun will be automatically cocked after each fired round.

SA- Can only be cocked by racking the slide, and every bullet to follow will be cocked automatically.

thx guys.

IanS · July 1, 2005, 10:59 PM

Essentially it sounds correct assuming we're talking about hammer fired guns.

For DA/SA it is also possible to thumb back the hammer for a single action shot from DA mode.

It is also possible to thumb back the hammer on a SA gun (like a 1911 or BHP) but they should be carried in Condition 1 or "Cocked and Locked" in the first place.

sm · July 2, 2005, 12:36 AM

-Glock, Kel-tec
-Beretta 92, Sig
-1911, BHP

BillCA · July 2, 2005, 12:38 AM

I think you pretty well have the hang of it, except that "Double-action-only" is usually abbreviated DAO instead of DOA (dead on arrival).

DAO : Requires the user to pull the trigger through a "cocking AND firing" stage to fire the gun. The Kahr pistols are DAO as are hammerless revolvers.

DA/SA: On firearms with an exposed hammer, the gun may be fired by either squeezing the trigger through the cock & fire cycle OR the hammer may be manually cocked first and the trigger used to fire the weapon (e.g. Colt .45 1911A1). Some pistols have no exposed hammer but the striker is cocked during the cycling of the slide to put the firearm into "Single action mode.

SA: Firearm must first be cocked before it can be fired. On semi-autos, this usually means cycling the slide (regardless of whether it has an exposed hammer or not). On revolvers this means thumb-cocking the hammer all the way to the rear (e.g. Colt Single Action Army pistol, circa 1876).

Handy · July 2, 2005, 12:52 AM

I would add: "other" or pre-staged DAO.

Glock, HK USP LEM, Daewoo/FN Tri-action, Para LDA all behave like DAO, but with a trigger pull closer to SA.

sig-it · July 2, 2005, 12:32 PM

^^^^^^ closer, but not by much....the action is still double, and the trigger pull can varry to 1.25 to 3 times that required of the same gun in SA....

SW40F · July 2, 2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

DAO- Cannot be manually cocked by racking the slide, must have extended trigger pull. Will not cock itself on the next round either.

DAO as provided by the S&W Sigma series and other striker-fired pistols IS COCKED by racking the slide to chamber a round, and WILL cock itself on the next round. The slide remains open after the last round, and releasing the slide, on a round or empty chamber, leaves it cocked. It CANNOT be de-cocked.

Like other DAO triggers, the trigger pull does not change from first to next round.

Sarge · July 2, 2005, 01:32 PM

The terminology for various action types has just about become meaningless. Manufacturers come out with a new model, call it whatever they want. If a fed LE agency wants to procure or issue it, ATF will eventually classify it a DA, DAO or whatever it takes to get it issued.

My advice is to forget all this DA/SA/DAO crap, and-

-learn the "four rules"

-pick a gun that suits you

-learn the manual of arms for that gun, and

-practice until you become highly proficient.

Amazingly enough, I have found that the more time I spend shooting, (and the less time at a keyboard) the better shooter I become. Ingnoring current fads and sticking to one gun adds a synergy to your progress that you'll almost have to see, to believe.

Slateman · July 2, 2005, 03:42 PM

Hey guys, thanks for this thread. I've been wondering what ya'll were talking about

Just a quick question then. What is the QA? Like what does it mean when it says Walther P99 QA?

ATW525 · July 2, 2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Just a quick question then. What is the QA? Like what does it mean when it says Walther P99 QA?

Quick Action is like the Glock trigger... it's basically a DAO that starts out partially cocked, so it has a lighter, shorter trigger pull. Unlike the Glock, however, the P99 QA has a decocker, so that you can release the tension before taking it down for cleaning without having to pull the trigger.

Slateman · July 2, 2005, 04:24 PM

So basically its everythig I like about the Glock trigger, with a little more safety. Cool thanks for the info.

Majic · July 2, 2005, 04:51 PM

Quote:

My advice is to forget all this DA/SA/DAO crap

There is nothing wrong with gaining information. Once the basics of all the designs are learned then no matter what someone may call it you will know what catergory to place it in.
What's "crap" to you is viable information to others.

Sarge · July 2, 2005, 07:07 PM

Oooh, I said a potty word

and somebody got bent. Time for a new sig line.

Majic · July 3, 2005, 12:38 AM

The one word means nothing. It's the advice that's questionable.

Sarge · July 3, 2005, 11:16 AM

Riiight. My advice is to learn and apply the cornerstones of gun safety, find a gun that works for you, learn it intimately, and practice with it until you can hit with it- and running it becomes second nature.

Now that's some wild, unproven stuff right there. Sure hope the hundred or so cops I trained on that concept, and the half-dozen whose lives have been saved because of it, never find out.

Handy · July 3, 2005, 05:17 PM

Oh come on. Majic (rightfully) objected to the suggestion of rejecting knowledge; not being safety conscious. Suggestion:

Be safety conscious. Also, know how and why your gun works, so you can extend that safety mindedness to other platforms as necessary. Reject suggestions that you stick your head in the ground.

July 1, 2005, 10:35 PM	#1
Full Metal Jacket Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 260	Clarifications for DOA/SA/DA-SA Some questions about double action only, double action/single action, and single action only. Tell me if this is correct: (I think some of it is wrong, so I expect corrections) DOA- Cannot be manually cocked by racking the slide, must have extended trigger pull. Will not cock itself on the next round either. DA/SA- Can either be cocked by long trigger pull or racking of the slide. Either way, the gun will be automatically cocked after each fired round. SA- Can only be cocked by racking the slide, and every bullet to follow will be cocked automatically. thx guys.

July 2, 2005, 12:36 AM	#3
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,750	See -Glock, Kel-tec -Beretta 92, Sig -1911, BHP __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

July 2, 2005, 12:38 AM	#4
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 6,048	I think you pretty well have the hang of it, except that "Double-action-only" is usually abbreviated DAO instead of DOA (dead on arrival). DAO : Requires the user to pull the trigger through a "cocking AND firing" stage to fire the gun. The Kahr pistols are DAO as are hammerless revolvers. DA/SA: On firearms with an exposed hammer, the gun may be fired by either squeezing the trigger through the cock & fire cycle OR the hammer may be manually cocked first and the trigger used to fire the weapon (e.g. Colt .45 1911A1). Some pistols have no exposed hammer but the striker is cocked during the cycling of the slide to put the firearm into "Single action mode. SA: Firearm must first be cocked before it can be fired. On semi-autos, this usually means cycling the slide (regardless of whether it has an exposed hammer or not). On revolvers this means thumb-cocking the hammer all the way to the rear (e.g. Colt Single Action Army pistol, circa 1876). __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately) Editorial Advisor - Handgun Club of America http://www.handgunclub.com For American's handgun enthuisasts.

July 2, 2005, 12:32 PM	#6
sig-it Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2005 Posts: 136	^^^^^^ closer, but not by much....the action is still double, and the trigger pull can varry to 1.25 to 3 times that required of the same gun in SA.... __________________ p220st (.45acp) p226st (9mm conv., .357sig, .40s&w) p229 (9mm) s&w model 41 (.22lr) cz 97B (.45 acp)

July 2, 2005, 01:32 PM	#8
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 2,386	The terminology for various action types has just about become meaningless. Manufacturers come out with a new model, call it whatever they want. If a fed LE agency wants to procure or issue it, ATF will eventually classify it a DA, DAO or whatever it takes to get it issued. My advice is to forget all this DA/SA/DAO crap, and- -learn the "four rules" -pick a gun that suits you -learn the manual of arms for that gun, and -practice until you become highly proficient. Amazingly enough, I have found that the more time I spend shooting, (and the less time at a keyboard) the better shooter I become. Ingnoring current fads and sticking to one gun adds a synergy to your progress that you'll almost have to see, to believe. __________________ Sarge www.thesixgunjournal.net Sarge's Roll Call "Sowing firearms-related common sense across the vast, infertile expanses of the Internet."

July 1, 2005, 10:59 PM	#2
IanS Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,240	Essentially it sounds correct assuming we're talking about hammer fired guns. For DA/SA it is also possible to thumb back the hammer for a single action shot from DA mode. It is also possible to thumb back the hammer on a SA gun (like a 1911 or BHP) but they should be carried in Condition 1 or "Cocked and Locked" in the first place.

July 2, 2005, 12:52 AM	#5
Handy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,793	I would add: "other" or pre-staged DAO. Glock, HK USP LEM, Daewoo/FN Tri-action, Para LDA all behave like DAO, but with a trigger pull closer to SA.

July 2, 2005, 03:42 PM	#9
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 321	Hey guys, thanks for this thread. I've been wondering what ya'll were talking about Just a quick question then. What is the QA? Like what does it mean when it says Walther P99 QA?

July 2, 2005, 04:24 PM	#11
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 321	So basically its everythig I like about the Glock trigger, with a little more safety. Cool thanks for the info.

July 2, 2005, 07:07 PM	#13
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 2,386	Oooh, I said a potty word and somebody got bent. Time for a new sig line. __________________ Sarge www.thesixgunjournal.net Sarge's Roll Call "Sowing firearms-related common sense across the vast, infertile expanses of the Internet."

July 3, 2005, 12:38 AM	#14
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	The one word means nothing. It's the advice that's questionable.

July 3, 2005, 11:16 AM	#15
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 2,386	Riiight. My advice is to learn and apply the cornerstones of gun safety, find a gun that works for you, learn it intimately, and practice with it until you can hit with it- and running it becomes second nature. Now that's some wild, unproven stuff right there. Sure hope the hundred or so cops I trained on that concept, and the half-dozen whose lives have been saved because of it, never find out. __________________ Sarge www.thesixgunjournal.net Sarge's Roll Call "Sowing firearms-related common sense across the vast, infertile expanses of the Internet."

July 3, 2005, 05:17 PM	#16
Handy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,793	Oh come on. Majic (rightfully) objected to the suggestion of rejecting knowledge; not being safety conscious. Suggestion: Be safety conscious. Also, know how and why your gun works, so you can extend that safety mindedness to other platforms as necessary. Reject suggestions that you stick your head in the ground.