Setting The Stage for Back Door Confiscations?

[BillCA]

It was difficult to come up with a catchy subject line for this one so that I'd get your attention.

Many gun laws contain language to keep firearms out of the hands of "the mentally ill". By and large, most of us agree with that basic concept - people who are dangerously unstable, like a paranoid schitz, shouldn't be allowed to have firearms. But what if, overnight, the medical association classified other behaviors as a "mental illness"? Couple that with the government's desire to have medical/mental-health records and your 2nd amendment rights could evaporate overnight because a bunch of shrinks edited a reference manual.

Read the whole story at: FoxNews-Are Half of all Americans Mentally ill? (8/13/05)

Are Half of All Americans Mentally Ill?
Saturday, August 13, 2005

LOS ANGELES — A new study by Harvard University and the National Institute of Mental Health claims that 46 percent of all Americans will, at some point in their lives, develop a mental disorder.

But this new statistic has experts arguing over exactly what constitutes a true mental illness.

According to experts, severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia, dementia and manic depression are relatively uncommon. But the updated Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM — the standard survey for mental illness — lists conditions like adjustment disorder, passive-aggressive disorder and female sexual arousal disorder as mental illness, reflecting what are claimed to be advances in the mental health profession.

Critics say that's crazy, [Nice choice of words, eh? -BCA] and that it won't be long before all human quirks and flaws are classified as mental disorders.
:
Others say the DSM should be considered the mental health bible, because if it says that a person is mentally ill, then that person can get the treatment they need — and insurance companies will foot the bill.
:
The next edition of the DSM will not come out until 2010. The American Psychiatric Association is considering making changes to refine the subclasses of various mental illnesses.

-- End Article --

Note the underlined section in the last paragraph. The APA could, in effect, declare a whole host of behaviors as "mental illness" by claiming their science has "advanced" to allow such diagnosis. And they could further "refine" certain mental illnesses to include something like "the desire to carry a gun, lacking any specific threat or direct experience with crime".

A legislator like Schumer could introduce a bill who's fine-print prohibits firearm ownership for people being treated for any "mental illness" in the DSM. Just imagine the authorities showing up with a warrant for your firearms because your spouse is being treated for a "sexual arousal disorder".

[Te Anau]

I wouldnt put it past em.

[Wildalaska]

I'm unique they dont have a disorder that fits me

WilalthoughitryAlaska

[Sir William]

PTSD myself. I have seen a shrink after a cardiac problem to reduce my stress level. I have been to marital counseling before my divorce. I guess I must be crazy. I fit the pattern for many serial killers, abused, adopted, maladjusted, aggresssive and opinionated. My dog loves me.

[joab]

I am the classic lone gunman profile.

Outwardly nice guy, loner, gun collector, married three times, love war/action movies, I even downloaded the Anarchist Cookbook and the Necronomicon once.

A knock at the door at anytime would not surprise me

[buzz_knox]

Well, the gun grabbers got the VA to make its records part of the NICS database so those who were treated for mental issues would be denied firearms.

[MeekAndMild]

[tangent]
I've wondered for years how bleeding heart liberals in the legal and mental health arena have effectively joined with cost cutting conservatives in closing down the mental institutions and basically abandoning really sick, chronically and severely ill people to the whims of the world. But on the other hand the DSM continues to grow.

I think a large part of the diagnosis growth phenomenom involves one simple fact. People who are really severely mentally ill generally lack money and people who have money and insurance generally have life circumstance problems and anxieties but aren't really mentally ill. So it is like an arms race for the rich society shrinks (not bad people, just docs who don't treat the really crazy really sick patients) to diagnose new and varied ailments so they can get big bucks to treat the worried well. Ailments like 'multiple personality disorder' and 'adult attention deficit disorder' were developed IMHO for the sole purpose of somebody somewhere making money. (As for most cases of PTSD you see, calling that a mental disability is hooey. I know a neurosurgeon whose net income is over a half million dollars a year who has all the symptoms of PTSD from his job. But that never slowed him down.)

I used to believe that there was an easy answer, that people who have been involuntarily commited to a state hospital should probably not be allowed to buy guns. Not any more. Some months ago I learned that there is a probate judge in one of the more wealthy (and lefty) counties in my state who normally commits people to the state hospital if they happen to get stuck in the city hospital, can't be discharged within 5 days and have no insurance!

This is similar in effect to calling the guy who fills a tenth of an acre of 'wetland' or who smuggles a full sized toilet tank from Canada or who picks up a hawk carcass on the side of the road a 'felon'. It unjustly labels them and reduces their rights.

The VA mental health system is an interesting problem. There are really sick, crazy, miserable people who are treated there. They need all the help they can get. But I've met a lot of people who see their VA disability as a commodity to be guarded and cherished. These are the folks who deliberately get off their medicines every year or two to keep up appearances with a mostly faked hospital admission. Or they go on a bender just about the time their case is due to go on review. They check in to the hospital on Friday night so they won't miss too many days on their 'under the table' job and then miraculously stabalize Sunday for a Monday discharge.

I think that a much better way of dealing with veterans benefits issues might be to keep all the ones being paid for disabilities (both real and faked) on a perminant duty status. They could then be assigned work to fit their cases, whether light work as befits someone who is truly disabled and needs to keep up their dignity or heavier work for the malingers.
[/tangent]

[michael t]

I ordered a Cannibal Cookbook one time. Will I be on their list? I was just thinking during hard times ....

[Handy]

"Mentally ill" is not the determining factor in firearms purchases/ownership. It is whether or not you've been deemed mentally incompetent, which impacts your life in ways more significant than guns.

I don't see this as threat.

[sendec]

Concur with Handy. The regs are designed to stop those who are incompetent, a danger to self or others, not those with low-grade disorders that are'nt necessarily prone to dangerousness. If a person hasnt been probated or involuntarily hospitalized there shouldnt be an issue.

Of course, reading this as an attempt at backdoor confiscation is probably symptomatic of something.

[topspin43]

Sounds PARANOID. Too many guns, too many of us and a strong NRA. Tis' not gonna happen.

[BillCA]

I didn't want to make that post overly long (it was plenty long enough and I was vaccinated with a phonograph needle according to my dad).

Sure, it sound somewhat paranoid but I'd rather be watching for that "little change" in the wording of the law that'll give them a reason to deny a purchase or require disposal of your collection.

Part of my distrust for the APA comes from two basic issues. First is seeing what they (4 doctors) did to a young woman I knew years ago by turning her small problem into a big one of psychotropic drugs, suicide attempts, legal encounters and a ruined future. All the while simultaneously claiming that it was her responsibility to manage the 3 drugs she was on and that she couldn't care for herself & needed institutional care.

Secondly, after the mass shootings in the 90's where "mental health" drugs were involved, a friend wrote to both the AMA and APA asking if, in cases like these, the doctors involved would be scrutinized. Neither group responded with more than a "thank you for your inquiry but we can't tell you" letter.

He did have a good suggestion though. Require each psychaitrist to undergo an annual evaluation at the hands of one of his colleagues. This would weed out doctors with problems while also exposing those who can't diagnose a boil on someone's butt.

[TomNash]

MeekAndMild - you hit the nail on the head there!

Anyways, 'it can't happen here' ... . IMO, it will be an ammunition ban that does it, altough the prospect of the mental health issue seems very workable from their side of the table - I just think that it would take too long and give too many people too much time to respond appropriately. Just say that a particular round, the 'evil' FMJ for instance, is designed for high penetration and low cost, etc, etc. The sheeple will easily fall for that one.

Tom

[Rangefinder]

Well, a friend once told me I'm the most normal nut-job psycho he's ever met. *shrug/LOL* I took it as a compliment.

[LAK]

The problem with all these "measures" to "keep firearms out of the hands of the unfit" is that firstly, they violate the rights and jeopardize the safety of all free people.

This because instead of the incarceration, the removal, of "unfit" or "dangerous" people (or their 24 hour supervision) - they are permitted to roam freely. This changes free society into a controlled society based on a created "problem".

Secondly, they do not prevent "unfit" or "dangerous" persons obtaining firearms.

There certainly is ample call for suspicion based on these two factors alone. They are fraudulent and an oppression to begin with. Add the fact that they are subject to "interpretation" by whoever holds the keys at the time and there really should not be any doubt that they are bad news waiting to happen.

[joshua]

I'm a father of four and haven't been divorced, been married for 6.5 years now. I say I'm on a good track. josh

[dfaugh]

if you've ever been treated for a psychiatric disorder, you WILL be denied a CCW...Doesn't matter how minor, or how long ago...

[johnbt]

I'm curious about that. Do you mean the more 'serious' psychiatric disorders - the ones involving hallucinations and such - or just any old garden variety psychiatric diagnosis somebody got treated for? The APA DSM-IV contains all sorts of diagnoses, including Nicotine Dependence (305.10), Social Phobia (300.23), Sexual Aversion Disorder (302.79) and Primary Insomnia (307.42).

And what about Pathological Gambling (312.31)?

If they are that draconian, it might be wise to pay cash for treatment and use an assumed name.

John

[Waitone]

--Make the categories via law
--Define the categories via law and administrative fiat.
--Change the definitions via administrative fiat.

Presto chango, new law and you never have to go back to the legislature. Cool, huh?

As long as definitions are an administrative function, no person or group is safe from good intentioned bureaucrats.

[Sneevil]

Great. Assault lawyers can now be replaced by assault psychiatrists.

[Waitone]

In my state, if you have a CCH and make a trip to a psychiatric (?sp) hospital you will get a phone call from the sheriff's office.

[Apple a Day]

I wouldn't worry about it. The crazy half of the country voted for Kerry last election and they are the ones who are afraid to touch a gun anyway.
Can we get "hoplophobia" officially recognized as a mental disorder and have them all locked away?
Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Ohio Annie]

I seem to remember the wording as "adjudicated mentally ill or incompetent." key word, adjudicated, meaning committed to an institution by a court.

[Zekewolf]

dfaugh: Your choice of addresses is prima facie(sp?) evidence of mental illness!

[TimRB]

Don't forget... Some in the medical community have already tried to control and ban firearms as a "public health" issue.

Tim