US Army Solicitation for JCP Pistol

[Hard Ball]

New US Army Pistol RFP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Solicitation number : H92222-05-R-0017
Title : 10 -- Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) System
http://www1.eps.gov/spg/ODA/USSOCOM.../SynopsisP.html
General Information
Document Type: Presolicitation Notice
Solicitation Number: H92222-05-R-0017
Posted Date: Aug 26, 2005
Original Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
Current Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
Original Archive Date: Oct 14, 2005
Current Archive Date: Oct 14, 2005
Classification Code: 10 -- Weapons
Naics Code: 332994 -- Small Arms Manufacturing
Contracting Office AddressOther Defense Agencies, U.S. Special Operations
Command, Headquarters Procurement Division, 7701 Tampa Point Blvd, MacDill
AFB, FL, 33621-5323
Description
The USSOCOM intends to issue a solicitation to obtain commercially available
non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45
(ACP). The Program will use full and open competition to fulfill the JCP
requirement.
The JCP will be delivered in accordance with specification entitled
"Performance Specification Joint Combat Pistol" to be provided with issuance
of the solicitation.
Two configurations of the pistol will be required.
One configuration will have no external safety and the other configuration
will have an external safety.
The Combat Pistol System consists of: a Caliber .45 pistol and its ancillary
equipment including: Magazines (standard and high-capacity); Suppressor
Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound
suppressor; Holster; Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity); Cleaning
Kit; and Operator's Manual.
The contract type will be an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ)
issuing Firm-Fixed Price (FFP) delivery orders. The contract period of
performance shall be Five (5)years with an option to extend for an
additional Five (5) years.
The Minimum Quantity is 24 each Engineering Test Units (ETU's), 12 each with
external manual safety and 12 each without external manual safety. The
estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP
configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration;
649,000 Holsters; 96,050 Standard Capacity Magazines; 192,099 High Capacity
Magazines; 667,000 Magazine Holders; 132,037 Suppressor attachment kits;
Provisioning Item Order, Technical Data Package and associated Data.
Transportation shall be F.O.B. Destination.
The solicitation will require, free of charge to the government, delivery of
24 each product samples along with a concise written proposal all due on the
closing date stated in the solicitation. The 24-each product sample from the
successful offeror may be accepted as the Minimum Quantity. Any subsequent
delivery orders for JCP's will order between 50 each and 200,000 each with a
maximum monthly delivery rate of 5,000 each.
Any subsequent orders for the ancillary items will require delivery to
commence within 60 days after receipt of order. The product samples and
written proposal will be evaluated on a best value basis and the Government
will reserve the right to award to other than the lowest priced offeror and
other than the highest technically rated offeror.
Product samples from unsuccessful offerors will be returned to the offerors
upon request and at the offeror's expense. The Government cannot guarantee
the condition of the product samples after testing.
All responsible sources may submit a proposal, which shall be considered by
the agency.
The Government intend to issue a draft solicitation. Notifications,
Solicitation, and other communication will be posted via FEDBIZOPS.
Questions may be emailed to Contract Specialist, Mr. Pfender at
[email protected]."

Verty interedting. Note that the pistol proposed imust be non-developmental meaning that it must be an existing desigb or a modification of an existing design, And it must be chambered for the .45ACP cartridge. 600,000 pistols indicates that it will peplace the Beretta M9 which has not done well in Iraq.

[cookhj]

good. about time...the M9's here are falling apart.

[Clayfish]

How much you wanna bet it'll be glock? If anything is ever done.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It would to be a new Glock model because the 21 and 30s are too fat for some people's hands. The 36 is too low capacity.

The GAP is not ACP. The external safety already has been made by Glock for some buyers.

Thus, I predict it will be an HK. But what to I know?

[Handy]

The way I read this, the only guns that would do it, off the shelf, are USPs. The Glock manual safety has always been an afterthought, rather than factor mod. Every other gun I can think of is a single stack or would somehow be inappropriate for US service.

Actually, if Beretta can get the .45 PX4 into production quick enough, that might be a good contender.


Its a shame DOD is always doing things fast. This would have been a good time to develop a gun from scratch that would have the legs to do 40 years of service with minor upkeep. Off the shelf wasn't a good solution with the M9.

[RsqVet]

From the sounds of it they have an idea of what they want and want to standardize at liest acress the spec ops command --- much like they they did the the M4 in it's various configurations and with it's assorted acessories.

From the parameters outlined unless I am missing something major in the market out there I'd bet on HK winning this one since they already have an in having made the SOCOM and other products and recently won a bunch of other trials as well, but it might be intresting to see if this shakes up some intresting ideas from other makers --- certinly Ruger and S+W could give it a go as well with some of thier product lines, Wish this would make SIG explore a double stack 45 but then in the time frame they outline it would not seem possible.

I also would not judge the M9 dead from this --- it reeads like 600.000 is a contingency, not a definitive number so basicly they are keeping thier options open if they want to make a change --- like the various other fedral contracts that piggy back on one another ---- FBI buying SIGs on the DEA contract before they went to glock comes to mind.

[sendec]

Because it specifies USSOCOM I wouldnt count this as a replacement for the M9, which is more likely to be replaced by the M11, if it ever comes to pass.

[ATW525]

It looks more like a likely replacement (or supplement) for the Mk 23 than the M9.

[Padawan]

Originally Posted by Handy

The way I read this, the only guns that would do it, off the shelf, are USPs.

Heckler & Koch's USP was also the first weapon that popped into my head when I read this.

[KurtC]

If they are looking for 650,000 units, you can pretty much figure that they plan on replacing the M9, M11 and M23. I would venture to say that the 50K guns without a safety are for special purpose, and the 600K are for general issue.

[CobrayCommando]

WELLLLLLLLL





WELLLLLLLLL




WELLLLLLLLLL......


MUHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

I guess some people here better get out their favorite tasting hats, but no salt! LOL... j/k

I'm not sure I totally understand the parameters but I'm guessing it will come down to SIG, HK, Ruger and maybe Glock. Oops I didn't see they had to be double stack .45s, or perhaps by high capacity they mean 10 or 12 rounds, and standard capacity is 7 or 8 meaning possible single stack...

[PeterGunn]

I happen to think that the SA XD in .45 GAP with a tactical length barrel or service length barrel would fill the bill nicely. It certainly fills the requirements of the desired parameters and if they do that... how easy would it be to transition to the 9mm if they wanted to dump the M9.

Think about it... A single design (same pistol for all persons, holsters, and training), multiple calibers. easy repair and replacement parts, and an American company overseeing the manufacture and distribution... bye bye beretta.

Give me the goose bumps!!!

[ATW525]

I happen to think that the SA XD in .45 GAP with a tactical length barrel or service length barrel would fill the bill nicely. It certainly fills the requirements of the desired parameters

Except for the .45 ACP requirement.

[PeterGunn]

Yup... just caught that.

The ACP requirement is a bit short sighted in the sense that a GAP can do the same thing and still have a grip that most all soldiers can get used to regardless of the model settled on.

Oh well, your Govt. hard at work

[Handy]

You only save an 1/8" with GAP. Hardly a good reason for Lake City to start producing a new round.

[litework]

Maybe Para Ordnance will offer an LDAO version of their double stack .45s.

[CobrayCommando]

Doesn't the .45 GAP also have much increased chamber pressures? Its like a race between a souped up moped and a Harley... Pushing that moped to the edge will bring it to within spitting distance of the Harley, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with 100 moving parts that sound like a bumblebee on crack underneath my sack.

IM Lugger if you're listening, you're right about the .45 GAP being more popular if it had come around before the .45 ACP, I didn't think of the GAP when I said that.

BUT as it is it is such a minor improvement over the .45 ACP its not worth it to most as it is.

[Half-Price Assassin]

I dont think a USP will be picked. you have to remember a huge reason the beretta 92fs, was picked was because of cost. the USP is a high-cost service pistol, along with Sig. probably an american company, or Glock. only because of cost. america has the most advanced military in the world, but when it comes to small arms, we go cheap. we are still running around with 40+ year old assult rifles (everyone else as upgraded 20 years ago, and we still have a 1960s design gun). so if we really do go .45acp again, probably Glock, and i am not just saying this because i am a GLOCK-head. after all GLOCK, does have that new factory, unlike 20 years ago. or maybe GLOCK will release its "NEW", product that will be for the U.S. Military, and some civies.

[IZinterrogator]

What's cheapest, the HK XM8, the Robinson XCR, or the FN SCAR? Doubt it was the XM8. But that was what the Army picked before everyone threw a fit about the competition not being open for other bids. Seems that the lowest bidder is not walking away with the government contract these days when it is in the name of national defense or homeland security. After all, DHS bought HKs and Sigs. Matter of fact, Gaston Glock probably won't enter the race again because he refuses to give up the patents to the U.S. Government.

A friend/co-worker and I were discussing how much we wanted to take 45s with us to the sandbox next time this morning. He wants to take his USP and I want to take my much-awaited Desert Warrior (with Ergo Grips and Pachmayr finger grooves instead of the Nutter Butter grips). The USP was second on my list. I just hope that if they choose the USP, they get the Variant 1 model so I can carry cocked and locked.

[CobrayCommando]

USP and Glock MIGHT be deemed to have too much strategic materials (plastic), which the military theorists and such think would get very limited in a time of war. Which makes no sense to me, considering the construction of the M16A2.

In any case if a Glock were selected I would be dissapointed, but I would prefer it over a Beretta.

Perhaps you've forgotten that SIG underbid Beretta on the actual pistol itself back before the Beretta was adopted, in addition to matching or beating it in the testing itself. SIG was underbid in spare parts however.

I'm putting my money on SIG, and Glock, if it passes the testing or even qualifies.

[Handy]

Don't let retail costs fool you. All these guns can be had within a few cents of each other when it comes to several hundred thousand copies.


The Beretta was a cheaper PACKAGE for all the guns and spare parts that constituted the bid. Bringing up the pistol unit price is smoke and mirrors: If the Sigs were cheaper, their parts would be cheaper as well.


I'm wondering what off the shelf hi-cap .45 ACP Sig you guys are talking about?



As for material costs, the cheapest part is the one that is easiest to produce as long as the material is somewhat common. Aluminum can be machined several times faster than steel, so it is cheaper, despite the higher refining cost. Plastic requires no machining and is cheaper than either.

[kgpcr]

XM8 is a piece of ****. All the news from the troops tell us that the .223 is not doing so well. great for spray and pray in Nam but in the mountains its just not got what it takes and i love the M16. Looks like the 6.8mm is gaining popularity. hope it catches on

[CobrayCommando]

Ooookkkk.....


Anyway Handy: WRONG!!! Maybe that is...

Normally you would be right about the spare parts price thing, but it is heavily suspected that Beretta found out what SIG was going to charge the military for spares and underbid it by a very little amount.

[IZinterrogator]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...00#post1863600

Read the reports in the link on that post, CC. No reports of any kinds of dirty tricks or back door deals held any water.

[Grayrider]

Seems to me that S&W could add a safety to the M&P pretty easily. After all we have not seen what the 45 version of that gun will look like yet, and selecting an American maker would be very well liked by politicians.

GR