George W. Bush (Warning: Lengthy)

[38splfan]

To many, it seems that the proper response in any event is to blame the President. This has proved itself to be more true during Mr. Bush's Presidency than any other I have been alive to remember.

President Bush has many opponents in this country. Many will use this as one more opportunity to villify him.

George W. Bush, as an individual has very limited options here. The office of President of The United States does not include a cape or super powers. He can issue any order he likes, but that does not remove the miles of red tape involved. His orders also have to be carried out by someone else, and if that someone else (in this case, the heads of various relief organizations) bungles the job, it is not fair to assign blame to the President based on the crap-tastic actions of another. If the President tells FEMA to get down there and clean up right now, and FEMA takes three days, that's not the President's fault.

As has been pointed out by TFL member XavierBreath in his most recent thread, the whiners, complainers, and blamers in N.O. are few and far between, and do not give an accurate representation of the opinions there. As far as the media talking heads, they cannot evaluate the response from New York or DC, and I daresay they cannot evaluate it while wearing a tie and wingtips, either.

As far as the party approvals of his performance, many of those people cast their vote in favor of their party or it's agenda, not neccessarily what their personal beleifs are.The ones that did vote honestly most likely have never had to head up an emergency or disaster relief, so they do not understand the challenges associated, or what to consider an "acceptable" or "unacceptable" success rate.

It is not the job of the President to manage disaster relief. That is what FEMA was created for, that is what STATE FUNDED and STATE MANAGED National Guard units are for. (which are admittedly taking a beating in Iraq).
The President has far too many responsibilities associated with his office to ignore them all. While my preferred method of problem solving is one problem at a time, on the world stage that just does not work.

Many people also do not understand the role of the Red Cross in hindering aid efforts in favor of their politics. Here, XavierBreath and his crew (medical personnel with a boat) were turned away because of their guns. On another board(Pregnancy Weekly, where my wife is a member) a woman reported problems donating items. It seems that many people began collecting food, clothes, hygeine and comfort items, looking to donate them to the local shelter. The Red Cross manager their told them that THEY PREFERRED NOT TO ACCEPT DONATIONS!!

Yet another arena is world politics. The remainder of the world has not stopped because of our storm. President Bush still has to deal with the UN attempting to villainize the US on a daily basis, the Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the cost of oil, illegal immigration, and the illegal drug trade, to name a few. These do not stop for us. In fact, the carry on in force to take advantage of teporary vulnerability.

Before blame is laid upon one man, the entire situation, and ALL of that one man's responsibilities must be considered. While some here do not approve of Mr. Bush as our President, I doubt that too many would be willing to step into that office to replace him.

The local government was aware of the problems their city faced, state budgets offered no money, congressional budgets allocated no funds to the Corps of Engineers, and big industry was too concerned with itself to worry about the city that hosted it. In addition, the volunteers that are down there right now have little organization and even less money to direct or assist their efforts.

Also consider that while we are the helping hand (and wallet) for many foreign emergencies, that few have offered to do the same for us. In addition, the few that have offered have yet to provide what we need most, which is volunteers on the ground. Many of those same countries are watching and waiting for the chance to criticize the disaster response from their office far, far away. Once again jackets and ties where hard hats and work boots are needed.

Let's not forget the people in New Orleans. They either had no ability to evacuate, or in some cases, no inclination. The elderly, infirmed, and the children cannot help that their police and fire departments, their State Governments, and their city neighbors abandoned them. How many cars do you think left that city well before hand with only two or three people in them? That is not George W Bush's fault.

The broken levies? State and local government, and Congress, not the President.
The hurricane itself? Nature, not the President.
The able bodied still in the city? Inclination, not the President.
The infirmed and elderly still there? Inability, not the President.
The disorganized relief? FEMA, Red Cross, etc. Not the President.
The slow moving military? Red tape and logistics, not the President.
I could continue, but I doubt the pattern would change.

These, not George W. Bush, are the considerations for the effectiveness or the Katrina response.

While I am saddened and sickened to have to watch fellow American citizens suffer, I am not yet so emotionally charged or politically motivated as to lay blame on ONE MAN for the failings of many.

And it is National Spirit, Pride, and Brotherhood that will successfully aid New Orleans, not George W. Bush.

Rich, sorry to waste bandwidth with my rant. Feel free to delete if you deem appropriate. I just cannot tolerate the media, the foreign politics, and even some members of this board using this as a chance to attack the President rather than focus on the issue at hand, which is saving Americans.

[Nighthawk1983]

great post. I always found it funny that one man (Bush) seems to be in control of so many aspects of the world itself according to his opponents. Bush apparently controls the oil industry, all major US corporations and some foreign ones, the UN, the courts, the federal government and all its branches and agencies as a whole is under direct dictatorial decrees, and apparently he can control nature as well lol. Liberals

[Gewehr98]

This bothered me:

I see FEMA as being worthless. What the heck are they supposed to do anyway? Their leader, this Michael Brown, is incompetent. I don't know if he is a liar or just delusional. He reminds me of Baghdad Bob during the invasion of Iraq.

Maybe it's my 20 years of federal service causing me to be biased, or maybe it's because I know what has to happen to get FEMA involved after I played shelter manager for several months with the Sacramento floods of 1997. Either way, XavierBreath's angst is misdirected. I'll let him vent, he just came back from hell on earth, I've been there, done that, got the medal. But FEMA doesn't roll until requested by local and state governments, period. Contrary to popular belief, FEMA doesn't have thousands of trucks loaded with relief supplies pre-positioned for whatever disaster comes our way. It all moves after the request for assistance goes out. State's rights and all, don't ya know...

President Bush, while now a big target for those who want to place blame, did something extraordinary - he declared Louisiana and Mississippi disaster areas before Katrina hit. That was significant, it enabled assistance to roll ASAP, once the call went out from city and state government. When do you suppose that call went out from Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Blanco?

And let's not forget the significance of this, which I seriously doubt is the fault of President Bush - matter of fact, it's now referred to as the Mayor Ray Nagin Memorial Motor Pool:

[Dead-Nuts-Zero]

Sorry, this is another long one!


38splfan
I think you have many good points. As you mention, the media (or whoever) can't see what's going on in NO from their DC or NY studios.

I have been involved in many incident commands and preplanning for local emergencies and disasters. Nothing even close to this caliber for me, but on the same principle I think. Here are some of my thoughts.

When a group preplans, everyone (organization or agency) should be present for the meetings. Everyone should be involved in the development of a plan including the media. However, there are some who are just too busy to be bothered to attend. Then when the crap hits the fan and a plan is implemented, these absent people who have no clue how the preplan was set up will jump in and start giving orders. This can screw up the response and waste valuable time.

Another problem is that all of these different agencies and jurisdictions must work together and rely on each other. It usually starts with the lower end of government (as they are the first on scene). It is the local mayor, fire or police chief that’s gets involved in the beginning. Often the problem is they won't call for help until it's too late because people (voters & tax payers) will think they can do anything on their own. So when a higher authority like a state agency official does jump in, they argue who is in charge. They sometimes want the spotlight. We don't have time for that...This should have been all part of the preplan. I say immediately call in everyone that could possibly assist with the problem. If you don’t need them, you can always send them home.

Many will say that a preplan is of little value because the disaster will most always be different than what you had planed. Well yes true, but preplanning gets everyone together and they can decide what resources each other has to offer and how they can be implemented. The preplan practice will give you time estimates on how long it takes to get something together on scene and ready to fight. Sometimes a preplan is as simple as playing with toy matchbox cars on a huge table and going through the plan step by step. Or in a major plan like a natural disaster, there are tons and tons of work that goes into the preplan make up. This plan and practice will usually be of some benefit, even if it doesn’t go according to Hoyle. But it has to be organized beforehand.

The chief commander (the top person in charge) of an incident has to delegate and then make sure each job gets done to fit into the plan. If everyone does their smaller assignments, the small jobs dovetail to make a big plan come together. Having outside untrained volunteers is almost always helpful (usually can’t do it without them) in some events, but they have to be managed by someone who is on the preplan team. They don’t know exactly what to do. They can’t just work on their own as it needs to fit into the plan.

Something helpful like a church sending a truck load of assorted clothes, toilet paper and toothbrushes right into a disaster like in NO, will just waste rescue time and plug up the system. Get that freekin truck the freek outta here and make more room for that caravan of trailer trucks hauling tons of bottled water! etc. etc. etc. It hurts and offends these nice people, but when a big disaster like this comes up, we don't worry about offending someone or stepping on someone’s toes. We must give the orders and it should be run with discipline as we are dealing with lives. You can sort out all the bad feelings and make apologies after the job is done. An after-the-fact session known as “debriefing” is needed. All of the major players get together and talk about what worked good and what didn’t work good. This is when you learn about your mistakes and implement them into your plan for next time.

In the case of this NO disaster, it was the Ultimate Disaster and too many agencies were not prepared or organized and didn’t have good preplanning and procedures under their belts IMO. And communications were terrible at best. So they had to deal with it the best they could. When something goes wrong, it is someone’s fault, and usually it's everyone’s fault for not working together beforehand. Yes someone has to take responsibility. As they say, crap always runs down hill. The top officials won’t accept the blame. It’s the other guys fault. Planning and procedures should pinpoints who is responsible for every detail.

As for now, I say let these people do their jobs and not bother them with second-guessing and armchair quarterbacking. There will be plenty of time to point fingers when it’s over. They got off to a bad start but someone got them back on track and the job appears to be getting done.

In this disaster, President Bush has his closest people involved with the FEMA and Homeland Security planning and procedures but he was not directly involved. How could he be directly involved with everything in this world? He has to delegate someone (his advisors) and they turn around and delegate jobs to others and that’s how it gets done. Team work, preplanning, procedures and lots of practice are the key to running something of this magnitude. Unfortunately, this was really “The Big One” and everyone was caught with their pants down. Should not happen IMO. Many will disagree.

This is more than my 2 cents worth but I didn’t have any change…I was unprepared!

Great post 38splfan - Great Post!

[Big Ruger]

Which is George W., a bumbling idiot, or a evil genius? Depends on what leftist you talk to on any given day it changes

[Crosshair]

+1

[johnbt]

"Depends on what leftist you talk to "

You talk to leftist's? Not me. I'm confused enough already without any of their foolishness rubbing off on me.

John

[aspen1964]

..Bush has plenty of failures as President....but if any failure is put to this disaster it is to the local and state government's inactions at the onset...not Bush's

[kennybs plbg]

38splfan,
thanks someone had to say it and you did it well.

kenny b

[38splfan]

Thanks a lot for tolerating my rant guys.

[N.H. Yankee]

Common sense and the truth cannot and will not be tolerated and must be ignored, at least by the left when it comes to assassinating Republicans. The left refuses to look at the real problems because its too close to home
( usually in the mirror ) and it doesn't serve their agenda. Bush is evil, as are Republicans to most liberals, as long as we do not bow down to their radical beliefs we are a threat.

I am amazed as to how a handful of activists can effect a nation, this is because the left has a vast voting base of self serving radical groups and as long as the left caters to them they will be empowered. Sadly quite a few of the leftwing politicians are among those with radical beliefs. The Republican parties hands aren't clean either, but at least they aren't up to their neck in the sewer!

[Derius_T]

There is more than enough blame being spread around for EVERYONE involved in this. It has all already been said, except for MY .02 cents worht, and thats that I think personally that Ray Nagin, needs slapped square in the mouth for his little filth filled RANT. (especially when the esteemed mayor had HUNDREDS of busses at his disposal, and DAYS to use them for evac.)

Sounds like a guy that really FUBAR'ed the situation on his end, so points and screams to shift the blame.........sickening....

[Eghad]

George W. Bush was elected as President of the United States. He is the leader of the Executive Branch. This includes FEMA, DoD, Homeland Security and all the other Executive Branch Agencies. They are responsible for the day to day business, national defense, emergencies, ect...ect....

What is a Leaders Job? is the leader not responsible for all the good, bad and indiferent that goes on in his command?

Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The buck stops here"

President Bush is the Boss of the Homeland Security Director who is the boss of the FEMA Director which is called a chain of command.

FEMA did an excercise for just this event last year.......and had also named it as one of the three big emergencies that could happen in America.

Sorry but Bush chose to run for the Presidency of the United States, nobody made him. He is the leader and like the Captain of a ship is responsible for the welfare of the people of the United States.

To say that Bush shouldnt be blamed for anything is assinine.

[Derius_T]

Eghad wrote:

To say that Bush shouldnt be blamed for anything is assinine.

And to blame him for EVERYTHING is just as assinine.

Just goes to show that alot of people will stoop to ANY level to further their agendas and just plain bash our current president.

Easy to quarterback the nation from your computer chair isn't it? :barf:

[Eghad]

He is the leader of this nation is he not?

As a military leader for well over 20 years I took the blame for tasks that were not done right by my subordinates. Why? because as a leader I was responsible for ensuring that communication occured with my subordinates and was understood, they were properly trained and equiped and prepared.
When something didnt go right I dindt say well SGT so and so filed to do it right. I said Yes Sir took my lumps and then ensured it didnt happen again. In 2003 I was running some logisitics operations for Northern Afghanistan where folks were depending on my section for food, water, fuel and medical supplies....

I hold Bush to the same standard I hold myself too.

Thats the price of being a leader.

If Bush wishes to hold his subordinate leaders to that standard then he must hold himself to those same standards and take responsibility for good, bad or indifferent.

[Gewehr98]

To say that Bush shouldnt be blamed for anything is assinine.

To say that Bush should be blamed for everything is asinine.

Go back to school, particularly the bit about how government works, and read your textbook chapters again.

Then come back here and report to us how FEMA works. I'll give you a subtle hint, it starts with requests from city and state governments. State's Rights and all that Constitutional Stuff, ya know...

While you're at it, take a look here and let us know why the Louisiana governor wanted a 24-hour delay before asking for Federal Assistance:

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman..._2726584.shtml

[Rebar]

To say that Bush shouldnt be blamed for anything is assinine.

I'm happy that the liberal/left will try to bash Bush with this issue.

To those who actually understand this issue, any blame that needs to be pinned on someone, needs to be pinned on the democratic Mayor and the democratic Governor. They are the people who are responsibile for the disaster planning and relief SNAFU. It's Bush who actually took the proactive step to declare the state of emergency even before Katrina hit.

By making a big deal out of this, the liberal/left will shoot themselves in the foot, since in the end it will make the democrats look both incompetent and whiners. They keep forgetting the new media will bring the truth out, and that the current MSM spin will be shown as their usual bias.

[Eghad]

Its called leadership.........

not politics.......

try it sometime.

[Eghad]

Gewehr98 perhaps you should read those textbooks a bit more and not just the parts you want to see.........

Bush declares major disaster for Louisiana


From FEMA press release
WASHINGTON - The head of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced today that federal disaster aid has been made available to the state of Louisiana to help residents and communities recover from the damages and losses incurred from the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina.

Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response, said the assistance was authorized under a major disaster declaration issued for the state by President Bush. The declaration covers damage to private and public property from Hurricane Katrina that occurred beginning August 29, 2005 and continuing.

The action follows the President's emergency declaration of August 27 that released federal resources to help meet immediate life-saving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property in addition to other emergency protective measures. Debris removal and emergency services to assist law enforcement with evacuations and establishment of shelters are also eligible costs covered by the federal funding.


The President doesnt have to wait for aid to be asked.... Bush declared a emergency 2 days before the Hurricane struck.

[Eghad]

Rebar seems to me your pretty biased too..........

[Rebar]

Its called leadership.........

Good point.

The leadership of New Orleans, Mayor Ray Nagin (D), quite lacking.

The leadership of Louisiana Governor, Kathleen Blanco (D), quite lacking.

Here's hoping that the good people of Louisiana will elect competent republicans next time.

[Eghad]

LOL@ Rebar

[Eghad]

Let me recap your argument Rebar

Republicans have leadership
Democrats have no leadership

That Bush is the President is not responsible for everything while Nagin and Blanco who are also the chief executives for govenrment units much like Bush is should be held responsible for everything?

[Charles S]

Gentleman,

I just returned from NOLA yesterday. I was tasked out with a team of 39 firefighters and medics, we were self supported, sanctioned, well equipped, well armed and well trained. We had our own boats medic units, command trailer, van for non-critical transport. We are search and rescue trained. In about 60 hours of work time we were utilized less than 5. We were frequently assigned to task that had already been completed, or after the assignment and deployment the priority would change and they would pull us out and re-task us. Sunday we drove 190 miles around for 90 minutes of search and rescue.

This was the most frustrating tasking I have ever been involved in. I can elaborate more, but in the interests of keeping this post reasonable in length. The blame lands square on the NOLA government. We asked FEMA if we could relieve a group that had been on duty for 72 hours. FEMA though it was a great idea, but was told by NOLA command that relief was already scheduled and on the way. We were told NO. Fourteen hours later, the same crew was still working triage.







Charles

[Charles S]

A few more pics.