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Old October 13, 2005, 09:00 PM   #1
Wynterbourne
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Morning fun

Well, I had one interesting morning.

It started off with my wife getting a call from work, asking if she would be willing to come in about 3 hours early. We'd left her car at work last night, so naturally I had to drag my lazy assets out of bed and drive her.

I get home, putter around a little bit, and quite simply can't get back to sleep. So I decide to go in to work a bit early for some overtime. Overtime is good, it means more ammunition.

So I take a quick shower, hop out, and start to go through the motions. I have to admit, and this may be TMI, but one of the small pleasures in my life is 'drip drying' when the wife is not around. So I've towel dried my hair and am brushing my teeth when I hear a loud 'BANG' come from the front door.

This would be a good time to mention that within the past 3 weeks we've had, all within 300 feet of my apartment, two break-ins, one shooting, and two fist fights. All but one of these occured within 100 feet of my apartment.

So I come out of the bathroom to check it out and hear 'BANG' again. This time, I see the door physically move. So I'm thinking at this point that someone is trying to come inside of my apartment. As you can expect, I went for the nearest gun first. In this case, it's the PX4.

I keep the 'living room' pistol right next to the phone. Yeah, I know, I should've called 911. But with someone possibly coming in the front door, well, I think I made the right choice.

I pop the case open and realize that I, as of that moment, am an idiot. Inside of the case are fully loaded magazines. Unfortunately, the fact that they are in the case means that I've got my 'practice' magazine, the one loaded with snap caps, loaded in the pistol.

*BANG* The door actually moves inward somewhat.

I'll be perfectly frank, I didn't worry about what is 'tactical' or 'spiffy' or 'proper'. The practice magazine came out, hit the floor, and the new one went in. I start to slingshot the slide when there's another *BANG* and the door comes open.

Walking through the doorway is a rather gruff looking Hispanic individual. He's wearing severely ripped and faded grey jeans, beat up tennis shoes, a blue shirt that looked like something a mechanic would wear, and a blue 'doo rag'. He sees me, sees the gun, and starts with this stream of Spanish that approached a speed of Mach 1.2.

Oh, by the way, the guy had a buck knife in his hand. It had a blade about 4 inches long. It looked extremely well used.

Keep in mind, I'm standing there buck naked, with an almost loaded pistol in my hand, and he'd just 'busted' in the door to my apartment with a knife in his hand. I shout, "WHO ARE YOU!", to which he responded, "No Habla! No Habla!"

The slide slips out of my fingers, which are still wet and wrinkled from the shower, right as I'm yelling, "You'd best learn!"

It's amazing. He learned english REAL blooming quick, as he advises me that he's with my apartment complex's maintenance department. Good grammer and diction too.

Now, the man has no name tag on his clothing. I don't see a tool box. And my apartment hadn't notified me that anyone was coming for any maintenance tasks. I'll be damned if I'm letting him move his hands ANYWHERE out of my line of sight to reach for any kind of I.D..

Yeah, the police got called.

So a friend of mine with the local PD responds. We got lucky and only had to wait a minute or two. The guy didn't drop the knife until the police pulled up. You can guess how happy this made me.

And let me tell you, it's somewhat embarassing to have a police officer walk in and start laughing at your naked and somewhat shriveled self.

It turns out that it was in fact the maintenance man. The officer knew him from a call earlier in the week. Someone thought he was breaking into an apartment and had called the police.

His tools were outside of the apartment, out of view. The reason he didn't have a name tag is because he's a contractor, working for the apartment complex resolving some minor structural issues with a number of the apartments.

He'd come to my apartment to work on my door frame, and ultimately on my water heater, at the request of the apartment complex. Somehow, some way, he'd managed to jam the door from the outside while working on the exterior frame. He'd been kicking the door trying to get it to unjam, so he could fix what he'd broken.

Anyone want to guess just how long and how loud I screamed at my apartment complex for not notifying me that someone was coming to work in my apartment? Particularly after we'd had all these issues within recent weeks?

Want to guess the look on their face when the officer, who accompanied us to the office, stated, "You see, I would've just shot him. Man had a knife in his hand, wouldn't see day one of jail."

I did learn a few important lessons however.

First of all, I'm a dumbass. I can't put it any plainer. I put my primary defense pistol away with NON-FIRING AMMUNITION. I know better. I was taught better. I've taught my wife not to do it. And here I am, making a bonehead move that could've gotten me killed if it had been something bad.

Potentially dangerous situations have this way of warping time. The police responded in about 3.5 minutes, he'd been driving in the other end of the complex. It took me about a minute and a half from the moment the door came open to talk with the individual and call the police.

I lived about 6 years in those few minutes, and they weren't pleasant ones. While the police are coming I'm wondering where and how to shoot him if he comes at me. Should I take a shot if he runs? Should I change angles and possibly escalate the situation by moving?

Training and familiarity with a weapon does make a difference. Learning my PX4 meant that my hands new exactly where to go, in not the friendliest, though definitely not the worst circumstances. My thumb went right to the safety after the slide went into position. My grip was firm, hitting the sweet spot on the grip.

Potentially dangerous situations make your willy shrink. However, it is possible to be intimidating with water dripping from your shrivelling ne-ne's. One must have something, such as a handgun, or be named 'John Holmes' to accomplish this though.

The 'Clint Smith' quote in my sig line remains true.

All joking aside, this stammered me. I didn't have my defensive ammo ready. That could have killed me. I was caught flat footed, and if that door hadn't held, and it had been one of the robbers, he would've had me.

What if it had been one of the thieves, and my wife'd been home. I can handle putting my own life at risk. Not hers. Never hers.

As it was, when I saw the knife, I came ---->.<---- close to shooting him.

Christ, I've needed a beer all day long.
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9mm. Because no matter how you try to rationalize it, .45 ACP is still for people trying to compensate for -something-.

Last edited by Bud Helms; October 14, 2005 at 03:54 PM. Reason: PM
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Old October 13, 2005, 09:25 PM   #2
butch50
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Personally I prefer a cup of coffee to get my blood moving in the morning, but your system will work too.

So what was he doing with the buck knife? I have been in construction for 30 years, and I have seen just about everything you can see in this business, yet I have never seen anyone use a buck knife as a tool, never. Perhaps he is an "opportunistic" construction worker? He may not be as innocent as he proclaimed. Construction sites have more thefts per square foot than any other place in the world.

The good news is that if he is associated with any (other?) thieves, they will know that your apartment is THE one to avoid.

I am glad that it worked out as well as it did. I have to believe that he is one lucky SOB to still be alive after pulling that stunt on you, and he better be thanking his lucky stars for it.
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Old October 13, 2005, 09:26 PM   #3
pax
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Wow.

Lots to learn from there. But you know what? Despite the rude shock of discovering your defense gun improperly loaded, you did good.

pax

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
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Old October 13, 2005, 09:40 PM   #4
siotwo
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I glad everything turned out OK butt, I have this picture in my head and I cant make it go away... have the 'boys' dropped back in town yet?
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Old October 13, 2005, 10:09 PM   #5
theshootist61
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I believe you did great .good job at restraint,and thank god you alright too.
your a better man than I at holding fire.he busted in with a knife.I'm sorry
but i would have had to live with a dead innocint(possibly ).now you
hope you never have to do it agian,like i said god bless you and keep
you safe.



UDT-12 SEAL-1 78-84
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Old October 13, 2005, 10:54 PM   #6
USP45usp
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That is why you ensure that your carry gun, or the guns that you depend on, are loaded with the right mag .

You have great restraint. With all that racket, then someone appearing, and then with a weapon to boot, I'm afraid that I would have pulled the trigger. Too many "what if variables" going on in too short a time.

It all worked out for the best. I'm alittle leery of the "maintenence" person, No Habla English? If I had a gun pointed at me, and it doesn't matter if the person is naked or not, I would and could learn any language in a heartbeat if it meant that I stayed alive.

Why did he come forward to you? That I have to ask also. I see gun, I go backward, not forward.

Also, most maintenace men/people that do work in an apartment compex will knock on the door first to see if anyone is home. Then, if not, they will use the manager to unlock the door and then start work (door or not).

But, I've been there (well, I was at work). I came home from work in NY when I was at Griffiss and my dang front door was open. It was pulled "shut" but when I put the key into the deadbolt, it came open. I checked my M1 that I had at the time and the rest of the apartment, everything was there. I then went (the next day) to the manager and asked if anyone had been in the apartment. They said that it was sprayed for bugs that day.

I then went off on them. And I mean, I really went off. They didn't notify me which was bad, but the dang door was left open. Against the rules I changed and didn't give them the deadbolt and key. They never pressed charges or get far in their demands, as I didn't press charges against them.

Wayne
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Old October 13, 2005, 11:30 PM   #7
hkg3
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Holy cow!
There have been plenty of times I’ve been home alone, getting out of the shower and wondered, “What if someone breaks in now?”

I don’t keep practice ammo in my 1911, however I occasionally do equally stupid stuff like forget and keep my gun on the nightstand after I get up. If somebody broke in while I was in the shower, it wouldn’t take much effort on their part to find it. Then where would I be?
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Last edited by hkg3; October 14, 2005 at 01:15 PM.
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Old October 14, 2005, 04:23 AM   #8
HS
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.3 seconds away !

That guy actually owes you his life !

As the Police Officer stated
Quote:
"You see, I would've just shot him. Man had a knife in his hand, wouldn't see day one of jail."
Fortunately for you the guy stopped....

The best outcome for both parties ensued & a "lesson was learned".
Please I'm not being smart assed here @ all....

Quote:
I was caught flat footed, and if that door hadn't held, and it had been one of the robbers, he would've had me.
The only thing I can remind anyone about is the bar device which "clicks" into the door & the floor which really supports the door lock area from strike attacks.
Maybe gives that extra minute or two that makes ALL the difference?

All the best to you Wynterbourne and I sincerely hope that such an incident NEVER troubles you again. Gordon.
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:44 AM   #9
Low Key
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I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but you showed more restraint than I would have. If it had been me, he would have been dead real quick. A man kicks in my door with knife in hand, I wouldn't have taken the time for questions...they say that a determined attacker can cover 21 feet in 1.5 seconds. I've seen what a sharp knife can do and the last place I want to be is on the business end. That guy is darned lucky you didn't just pull the trigger.
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Old October 14, 2005, 10:49 AM   #10
alpineman
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Zoiks! Just reading that makes me need a cold one.

Pistol on hip? Check.
Carry ammo loaded? Check.

Reminders are good things to have.

Isn't there another thead going on regarding having a gun with you when you're in the shower?
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:11 AM   #11
Just Lookin
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OMG


What a saga... I laughed... I cried..... I'm darn glad that you're OK!!!

Thanks for posting, so that we can All learn from your mistakes.... as well as everything that you did right.


Practice really does pay off.


Stay safe,

Jim
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:28 AM   #12
leadcounsel
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Amazing restraint shown by you. Around the part where I read he was coming it with a buck knife I would have probably shot.

Very sketchy.

1) Why was he kicking the door in? Why didn't the apartment complex let him in with a key

2) What in the world was he carrying a buck knife for?


3) that man is lucky to be alive. like i said if this were me based on your description of the events (and previous violence) i would have probably shot him.
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Old October 14, 2005, 11:55 AM   #13
kirkcdl
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I think as soon as I saw the knife,he'd get shot.LEO is at a somewhat of a disadvantage as duty requires them,when possible,to disarm and arrest if possible.No such requirement for civilians.Would have been a "shots fired" call,ESPECIALLY if he didn't drop the knife,whether I told him to or not...
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Old October 14, 2005, 12:10 PM   #14
TallPine
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Well, I would have shot - maybe even before the door broke completely open.

But then I own my own home and live way out in the country so no so called "maintenance man" is going to be messing with my place without my permission.

AND ... when I shower, my 357 carry gun is lying on the counter by the sink in the bathroom
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Old October 14, 2005, 12:21 PM   #15
cuate
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I, for one am glad that you didn't shoot or have to shoot him. I don't have the attitude that I want to kill anybody just because I can. Killing bothers most folks although after several it becomes less and less bothersome. Discounting of course the conscience and following legal matters and draining humongous funds from your pile to hire lawyers, bail bondsmen and staying out of jail. Again glad for you and the handyman.
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Old October 14, 2005, 06:40 PM   #16
butch50
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You might consider moving, given all the criminal activity so close to your front door.
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‘‘The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.’’ ~ Patrick Henry
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Old October 14, 2005, 06:53 PM   #17
Hollywood D
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Wow. Nice move. Way to think fast on your feet.

If after one command to stop and he didn't or didn't drop the knife I probably would have neutralized him. Not to mention the fact that he was kicking down the door. *** was he using to push it in with?
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Old October 16, 2005, 02:29 PM   #18
Wynterbourne
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Quote:
1) Why was he kicking the door in? Why didn't the apartment complex let him in with a key
According to him, and I'm not sure how much stock I put into it, he had jammed the door while replacing part of the exterior trim. I honestly can't think of how he might have done this, but that's what he's claiming anyways.

He did have a key.

Quote:
2) What in the world was he carrying a buck knife for?
That's not uncommon for handymen, general contractors, and carpet layers to do in Texas. I worked as all three for quite some time, when I was younger, and I still miss that old 3" Buck I kept on my belt. It was one of the most useful tools I ever had.

My issue was with him having it in his hand. He said that he was using it to try to pry the door back. I could actually understand and agree with this, if he hadn't had a freaking pry bar laying on top of his tool bucket.
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They got mine once. Never again. Molon Labe!

"You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or use any other word you think will work, but I’ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much the universal language." - Clint Smith

9mm. Because no matter how you try to rationalize it, .45 ACP is still for people trying to compensate for -something-.
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Old October 16, 2005, 02:46 PM   #19
Wynterbourne
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Quote:
You might consider moving, given all the criminal activity so close to your front door.
Honestly, we're looking at moving as soon as our lease is up.

This was a good area up until recently. It's one block from the Police Station, one block from the City Hall, and less than a block from the Public Library. It sits right next to one of the better City Parks in the area. The nearest school is less than a mile away.

Sure, we've had our share of issues. Any place that puts that many people into a relatively small area will. But they've been very few and far between. Yeah, we had a shooting about 18 months ago. We've had one or two domestics in the area. But nothing out of the ordinary, considering the volume of our complex.

But within the past month or so, it's gone straight to Hades. Robbery, theft, assault, and vandalism cases have risen dramatically. There have been a couple of cases of guns being flashed, at least one new shooting, and at least one rape.

I like this complex though. It's the place where I moved into with my wife when we got married. It's our first home. I hate to see what's become of it within the past month.

What bugs me, and I'm sorry to say it this way, but every single case that I've seen so far has involved one of the Louisiana refugees. Every one that they've arrested, or cited, or fined, has been someone that's living here due to the benefits offered by our State and Federal Government.

I realize that this next part might sound 'flame worthy', and I hope it isn't taken as such. But dangit, I feel like the 'projects' were just picked up and dumped in my front yard a month or so ago.
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They got mine once. Never again. Molon Labe!

"You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or use any other word you think will work, but I’ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much the universal language." - Clint Smith

9mm. Because no matter how you try to rationalize it, .45 ACP is still for people trying to compensate for -something-.
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Old October 16, 2005, 02:58 PM   #20
Wynterbourne
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Quote:
Fortunately for you the guy stopped....

The best outcome for both parties ensued & a "lesson was learned".
Trust me, I agree with you. Forgetting about the probability of a civil trial, being forced to defend my actions, and what it could do to my family financially, there's still the basic fact that killing changes a man.

I've done a lot of things in my life. Admittedly, not all of them have been 'righteous' activities. Shoot, some of them have been pretty messed up, no matter which moral compass you follow, and were so for quite a few years. But the one line that I haven't crossed yet is the outright killing of a man.

And by the Goddess, I hope that I never have to.

Don't get me wrong here. If someone threatens the lives of my family (either blood or extended), myself, or the sheep that may be around me at the time, I will pull that trigger. There's no doubt in my mind about that. But if I ever have to do it, I won't be the same person anymore.

Does that make any sense?
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They got mine once. Never again. Molon Labe!

"You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or use any other word you think will work, but I’ve found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much the universal language." - Clint Smith

9mm. Because no matter how you try to rationalize it, .45 ACP is still for people trying to compensate for -something-.
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Old October 16, 2005, 03:37 PM   #21
dfaugh
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Wow....

I to tend to run around the house naked (but not so much now as both my sons are living here, and there's the occasional female running around).

Glad you took the split second to assess the threat...I'm pretty sure, at the point I saw the knife I woulda started firing....
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Old October 16, 2005, 04:40 PM   #22
Capt Charlie
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Nice job, but the "maintenance man" has my gut instincts giving me an itchy feeling. A lot of burglaries and thefts are carried out by people working in that guise, and the faking of his ignorance of English is suspicious as well. Maybe he's straight up, but I'm thinking a talk with management about his background check and references are in order.
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