Cold Bore first shot

dgc940 · December 7, 2005, 08:42 AM

I need some advice please! I have a Ruger MK 11 25-06 and the first round out of cold barrel always lands 4 inches high and about 5 inches left then from the second shot on it hits right on target. What to do this is a problem for hunting as I cant get the animals to stand still while I fire one off to warm up barrel!
but the first round is not always consistant next time it could vary by a inch or two. should I just by a new rifle?

Don

Unclenick · December 7, 2005, 10:22 AM

It is not unusual for a cold shot to be a bit off, but 4-5" inches is a lot. The first thing you need to do is determine whether this is due to the change in barrel temperature (warmer on subsequent shots) or barrel fouling? To do this, fire one shot, then put the rifle aside for an hour to equalize back to air temperature, then fire again. If the second shot also goes high and left, you have a temperature problem. If the second shot goes to the target, you have a fouling issue (much less likely, but not impossible).

If you have the temperature problem, the most likely cause is assymetric barrel stress that causes the barrel to bend as it heats up. It could be touching the stock in one place before heating, then lift away, or the reverse could be happening.

If it is fouling, then you probably have a machining defect in the barrel that gouges out a chunk of copper jacket on the first shot, throwing the first bullet off-axis. Once the defect is filled, it doesn't gouge subsequent rounds. This is not common.

The solution to both problems is to send the rifle to Ruger describing the complaint. Their people will correct it for free. I have done this with a Redhawk that wouldn't shoot 5" groups at 25 yards. They reamed the cylinders and cleaned up the barrel timing, and it came back shooting under two inches at 50 yards. Sending it to the factory won't get you a custom gun, but it at least gives you a fair starting point. And you don't need an FFL to send a gun to the factory. There is an exception in the law so gun owners aren't discouraged from getting unsafe guns fixed. The factory can then return it directly to you.

Even in perfect condition, you are still likely to find the first shot from a clean barrel goes off a little. One or maybe even two inches at 100 yards is not unusual, but at least that stays within the 4" kill zone for a deer out to 200 yards. Many people foul the gun with four or five shots the day before a hunt, then leave it dirty until they get it home again. You can also set your sights to match the first shot, but then your ability to take follow-up shots is compromised. Send it to Ruger.

Nick

Ruger4570 · December 7, 2005, 10:37 AM

Quite often this is caused because of cleaning solvent and oils in the barrel. When you clean the gun and lube it, it will make the first bullet down the bore strike a different place, mostly because the bore is lubricated. When I get ready for hunting, I sight in my gun and don't clean the barrel til I am done with the season. Just be sure to try to store the gun in a dry place if possible. Try shooting your gun and put it away uncleaned til another session and see if that helps. If not, I would say to do what is posted above. Good luck

dgc940 · December 7, 2005, 10:59 AM

The barrel is freeflooted and checked with dollar bill I even clearenced it a few more thousands. Also this is a cold barrel problem. not a clean and lubed barrel. twenty rounds with out cleaning for hunting season. it is also a target model with heavy barrel.
could this go away with bullet change? I dont mind sending off but hate to do so untill I get my deer! It's my only gun other than sgun and rimfire.

Unclenick · December 7, 2005, 11:58 AM

I will second Ruger4570 on lube. I always run a chamber mop and then a patch with acetone or a solvent like Bore Scrubber to remove oil before a first shot.

Have you double-checked that your barrel is still floating after that first shot warms it up? If so, then we are down to either asymmetrical barrel stress (easy to get if flutes have been cut after stress relieving), or receiver threads or the receiver face being out of square and shifting the barrel position as they heat up. Unfortunately, there is no in-situ cure for that, and the factory should be tasked with fixing it.

If you can borrow a sight with mil dots in the reticule, you may be able to set the crosshairs to aim the first shot, then use the dots for follow-ups. Also, you should check that the first shot error is true from a hunting position. Sometimes the size or these errors are affected by sandbagged positions on a bench.

Nick

December 7, 2005, 08:42 AM	#1
dgc940 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Graham Texas Posts: 258	Cold Bore first shot I need some advice please! I have a Ruger MK 11 25-06 and the first round out of cold barrel always lands 4 inches high and about 5 inches left then from the second shot on it hits right on target. What to do this is a problem for hunting as I cant get the animals to stand still while I fire one off to warm up barrel! but the first round is not always consistant next time it could vary by a inch or two. should I just by a new rifle? Don

December 7, 2005, 10:22 AM	#2
Unclenick Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,249	It is not unusual for a cold shot to be a bit off, but 4-5" inches is a lot. The first thing you need to do is determine whether this is due to the change in barrel temperature (warmer on subsequent shots) or barrel fouling? To do this, fire one shot, then put the rifle aside for an hour to equalize back to air temperature, then fire again. If the second shot also goes high and left, you have a temperature problem. If the second shot goes to the target, you have a fouling issue (much less likely, but not impossible). If you have the temperature problem, the most likely cause is assymetric barrel stress that causes the barrel to bend as it heats up. It could be touching the stock in one place before heating, then lift away, or the reverse could be happening. If it is fouling, then you probably have a machining defect in the barrel that gouges out a chunk of copper jacket on the first shot, throwing the first bullet off-axis. Once the defect is filled, it doesn't gouge subsequent rounds. This is not common. The solution to both problems is to send the rifle to Ruger describing the complaint. Their people will correct it for free. I have done this with a Redhawk that wouldn't shoot 5" groups at 25 yards. They reamed the cylinders and cleaned up the barrel timing, and it came back shooting under two inches at 50 yards. Sending it to the factory won't get you a custom gun, but it at least gives you a fair starting point. And you don't need an FFL to send a gun to the factory. There is an exception in the law so gun owners aren't discouraged from getting unsafe guns fixed. The factory can then return it directly to you. Even in perfect condition, you are still likely to find the first shot from a clean barrel goes off a little. One or maybe even two inches at 100 yards is not unusual, but at least that stays within the 4" kill zone for a deer out to 200 yards. Many people foul the gun with four or five shots the day before a hunt, then leave it dirty until they get it home again. You can also set your sights to match the first shot, but then your ability to take follow-up shots is compromised. Send it to Ruger. Nick

December 7, 2005, 10:37 AM	#3
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Quite often this is caused because of cleaning solvent and oils in the barrel. When you clean the gun and lube it, it will make the first bullet down the bore strike a different place, mostly because the bore is lubricated. When I get ready for hunting, I sight in my gun and don't clean the barrel til I am done with the season. Just be sure to try to store the gun in a dry place if possible. Try shooting your gun and put it away uncleaned til another session and see if that helps. If not, I would say to do what is posted above. Good luck

December 7, 2005, 10:59 AM	#4
dgc940 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Graham Texas Posts: 258	The barrel is freeflooted and checked with dollar bill I even clearenced it a few more thousands. Also this is a cold barrel problem. not a clean and lubed barrel. twenty rounds with out cleaning for hunting season. it is also a target model with heavy barrel. could this go away with bullet change? I dont mind sending off but hate to do so untill I get my deer! It's my only gun other than sgun and rimfire.

December 7, 2005, 11:58 AM	#5
Unclenick Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4,249	I will second Ruger4570 on lube. I always run a chamber mop and then a patch with acetone or a solvent like Bore Scrubber to remove oil before a first shot. Have you double-checked that your barrel is still floating after that first shot warms it up? If so, then we are down to either asymmetrical barrel stress (easy to get if flutes have been cut after stress relieving), or receiver threads or the receiver face being out of square and shifting the barrel position as they heat up. Unfortunately, there is no in-situ cure for that, and the factory should be tasked with fixing it. If you can borrow a sight with mil dots in the reticule, you may be able to set the crosshairs to aim the first shot, then use the dots for follow-ups. Also, you should check that the first shot error is true from a hunting position. Sometimes the size or these errors are affected by sandbagged positions on a bench. Nick