S&W Sigma, best full size polymer value

MasterPieceArms.com · December 10, 2005, 12:51 PM

My second favorite value for quality is the XD.

Saying you own a Sigma is, in my experience, the fastest and best way to bring out the gun snobs. You know these people, the ones who call nearly EVERYTHING "junk" that either you have, or that they have decided is "beneath them." A Sigma .40 was my 3rd or 4th handgun back in 1996 and has not presented a single problem the gun snobs go around pushing about the Sigmas. It is no exaggeration that 99% of gun owners I've met have bashed this model in one way or another if it comes up. To be expected, cops, who are already quite arrogant to begin with in my experience, have spoken 100% negatively about this model to me in favor of their taxpayer funded Glock (which I agree is better but that doesn't make the Sigma "junk"). To everyone else, who can spot an excellent value when you see one, especially Sigma owners, I'm curious how often people give you attitude about your choice in pistol.

k9jri · December 10, 2005, 01:22 PM

I have an SW9VE, KP95R15, KP345DR and a 1991A1. They are all good quality and good shooters. S&W service is absolutely tops!! and Ruger is close. In the past I owned a Glock 22 and a 23. They were good guns as well.

Between the S&W, Ruger and Glock my first choice would be the Colt :-)

TMcKenzie · December 10, 2005, 01:41 PM

Sounds ta me like ya's looking fora flame thread. Mmmhmmm

My dad got a couple of those when it was just released. The first one was great and had no problems but the second was a bit more finicky with take down but that was all. I can't say I'm a fan of Sigmas or many other polymers out there but Sigmas aren't as bad as their rep would indicate.

As for getting attitude for my pistols I don't think I only had a problem with a Witness 40 I had. My cousin and I each got a stainless 40 Witness. They weren't pretty but they were solid. But my cousin's turned out to be a jamomatic. He decided to trade his in but mine ended up having to constantly prove itself. Basically looking and waiting for something to go wrong with it. I won't say that my old witness was a great gun but it wasn't bad either.

shamus005 · December 10, 2005, 03:07 PM

I'm sure it's a great gun since it's a virtually copy of the Glock.

(said with a little of this

annd a little of this

)

Rivers · December 10, 2005, 03:52 PM

Spend the next $300 you thought you'd spend on another Stigma on psychotherapy. Paranoia and inferiority complexes can be treated, over time.

k9jri · December 10, 2005, 05:58 PM

In all seriousness (this time) of the pistols that I own I prefer the SW9VE for my home defensive weapon. It shoots quite well and there is much less chance of an accidental 2nd or third shot when only one was intended. In this regard the Glocks are almost as good as the SW9VE but the SW9VE has a slightly longer trigger pull. Not stiffer, just longer.

The SW9VE is not a range gun but it was not intended to be. Most of the DA/SA or SA (1911 types) pistols will be much better range guns. Use the right tool for the task. At the range my 1991A1 Colt shoots most accurately followed by the Ruger KP345 then by the Ruger KP95 and finally the Sigma SW9VE. At 25 feet all of them shoot quite well but in that order of group sizes.

Even more accurate are my Ruger P512MKIII and the S&W 22A-1 .22 caliber pistols but they are a different class of tool than the centerfire pistols.

Mike

yorec · December 10, 2005, 06:10 PM

Do a search on the Sigma name - there've been a lot of threads over the years on just what you're talking about.

With the exception that a couple of our biggest Sigma proponants are cops. So there went that theory at least.

Still carry mine regularly - pushing 15,000 rds.

CraZkid · December 10, 2005, 06:34 PM

It does what it is intended to do. But it is inadequate for my uses i.e. competition.

Majic · December 10, 2005, 06:49 PM

The Enhanced models are good pistols, but the early originals were a crap shoot. I personally was with my buddy when he bought his when they first came out and we went straight to the range. Took it down, cleaned, lubed, and it refused to run without malfunctions using various ammo and different mags. Took it back to the dealer and the paperwork was done to get another and that one also refused to run. He being more patient than me exchanged that one for a 3rd and finally hit the jackpot as that one is still running just fine.
If you got a good one then count your lucky stars as I used to see quite a few of the originals being cussed at the range.

pipoman · December 10, 2005, 07:23 PM

My first ccw was the SW40V pictured below. It has been a good gun as long as I am not trying to shoot wadcutter ammo. It will not feed for some reason. Corbon works great, never a problem. A colleague of mine had one of the first compact 9mm Sigma it was a jamomatic. He returned it 2 times(10 years ago), it seems to function ok to date but he lost confidence in it and ranges with it only now.

As for "attitude". About 5 years ago while conducting a surveillance I was approached by the Chief of Police of a small Kansas town. I identified myself and presented my credentials to carry. He immediately called me out of my truck at gun point, made me assume "the position", hit me in the head with his flashlight, handcuffed me, took me to jail and booked me for "obstructing official duty". He made several remarks about the Sigma including calling it a "cereal box prize". Two weeks later he was fired by the town, my case was dismissed. I filed a civil case, 1 1/2 later the city paid me a 5 figure apology.

dickfunk · December 10, 2005, 10:25 PM

I think it was 2003 when I bought my SW9VE. It did take some time getting used to, just like all new guns. The one thing that took no time, was the ergonomics of it. I do agree that there are lots of Sigma 'bashers' out there, and most have probably never held one. I would put my SW9VE up against any Glock any time of the day. Would the Sigma survive the Glock 'torture test?' I don't know - but if I'm frozen in ice, falling out of a helicopter, or getting run over by a truck in the mud, I have bigger issues than my handgun not performing. I give it 2 thumbs up.

denfoote · December 10, 2005, 10:37 PM

It has been flawless in all it's ways since it was created!!!

No sin has been found within it!!

timothy75 · December 10, 2005, 11:11 PM

The sigma is a great gun exept the trigger is terrible and they wouldnt make any more black ones. They could have fixed this but instead brought out the sw99 and now the M&P and next year..........

MrApathy · December 11, 2005, 05:11 AM

they are still making the Sigma's they have a few every once in a while availible in melonite finish. look for GVE series in melonite. might have to have dealer order one. forget the online dealer only distrubitor had some melonite GVE's listed.

the trigger is not that bad. you want a bad trigger try the kel-tec p11.
sigma trigger can be worked on though heavy trigger on DAO pistol is a safety.

wouldnt trade my Sigma 40VE or Steyr M40 for anything. okay might trade the steyr in for the newer generation Steyr MA1. havent heard what all improvements the latest GVE Sigma have. not crazy bout the green polymer frame.

no word the Sigma line is being discontinued with advent of M&P, SW99 line didnt kill the sigma line either. must be good sales despite the trash talk.

dont see glock selling stainless/polymer pistols for less than $350 with stainless mags.

Marcus · December 11, 2005, 12:46 PM

I had a 40V (pre enhanced) some years ago. Mine was exceptionally reliable with everything from Corbons to weak 3D brand lead SWC reloads. Ergos were outstanding,sights decent,trigger nothing to write home about but usable. I found that several of the edges of stamped trigger ground components were left as stamped (rough). I duburred and smoothed those edges lightly and the trigger improved greatly. I put over 4K rounds through it before I sold it to a friend and he`s STILL a friend so that should say something for it.

My only complaint with it was (at the time) the Clinton mags and the fact that although I shot it very well in fast drills,it`s target accuracy was so so. Maybe 3"-4" at 25yds. with most loads. Still an outstanding value though and a good HD or SD pistol for many folks. It would seem that they still sell very well. FWIW I also know 3 others with Sigmas (one a retired state trooper) who own Sigmas and are happy with them to this day. Marcus

k9lwt · December 11, 2005, 05:40 PM

I am in no means a snob in any way. My department had many problems with the Sigma's we were issued and that's a fact. I was originally issued a Sigma .40C in 1998 along with other members of my department. We had many issues with them and traded them in for Glock 23's. We have had much better luck with the 23's.

Te Anau · December 11, 2005, 06:47 PM

A new (rail equipped) SW9VE is an unbeatable value in new handguns.I'd put one up against any number of other "good" guns and Im quite sure it would perform admirably.

Rivers · December 11, 2005, 07:27 PM

"He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool." Plato

alston73 · December 11, 2005, 07:35 PM

I'd be interested in the referenced substantiation of the "taxpayer funded" Glock claim.

I do know that Glock sued S&W several years ago and won mightily for patent infringement.

To make a musical reference, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

JPipes · December 11, 2005, 08:43 PM

I just bought the SW9VE a couple of days ago as a first handgun and I took it to the range for the first time today. All I can say is that everything I've heard about the "sigma" line is false...with the exception of the trigger (but that apparently works itself out over time). 200 rounds between two shooters with no failures of any kind. Accurate to boot. I bought it a gun show in San Antonio for $289 plus tax, and I am extremely pleased.

Good times...

Majic · December 11, 2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

I just bought the SW9VE a couple of days ago as a first handgun and I took it to the range for the first time today. All I can say is that everything I've heard about the "sigma" line is false...

First you have an Enhanced model where all the problems had been corrected. Second not everyone of the original models were troublesome, but quite a few were. Go back 10 years or so and see what was being said about the pistols. Also since you said "Sigma line" you must have very little if any experience with the .380acp model.

hexcentric1 · December 12, 2005, 01:22 AM

twelve pound trigger pull. ugh. otherwise a pretty good value.

and every time a sigma is sold, glock makes money...

JPipes · December 12, 2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

First you have an Enhanced model where all the problems had been corrected. Second not everyone of the original models were troublesome, but quite a few were. Go back 10 years or so and see what was being said about the pistols. Also since you said "Sigma line" you must have very little if any experience with the .380acp model.

First, you're right, I have no experience with the .380 acp model...good guess. Second, we are not talking about 10 years ago, we are talking about today...and today, these guns are a great value. The people that I've heard say bad things about these guns are usually gun snobs, OR have not handled the newer versions. I said "Sigma Line" because that's how just about every gun shop brands them...regardless of the fact that it isn't the correct name.

Majic · December 12, 2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Second, we are not talking about 10 years ago, we are talking about today...and today, these guns are a great value.

Well yes and no as the original post was talking of the bad name the Sigma got and that came from the problems of the first pistol. They were great bargains when they first came out if you got a good one. Time hasn't made the original ones go away. Some people just toss a pistol in the safe and never use it. That means sometime in the future it could be sold and someone ends up wondering why his/her like new Sigma just won't run.
It may not be that you are listening to a snob or someone who hasn't handled a new model, it could be that you just haven't handled one of the first models. There were real problems with some of them.

ksmash01 · December 12, 2005, 01:46 PM

first pistol i bought....(SW9VE)

I did something stupid and broke my extractor about 2500 rounds through it. It hadn't had a problem until then.

got it back from S&W 10 days after i sent it to them.

since then i've put over 1000 rounds through it, without a problem.

The last time i took it to the range, i outshot a guy standing next to me with a glock 19 at 12.5 yards, right after he looked at my gun ,

.

now the trigger isn't an issue.

December 10, 2005, 12:51 PM	#1
MasterPieceArms.com Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 109	S&W Sigma, best full size polymer value My second favorite value for quality is the XD. Saying you own a Sigma is, in my experience, the fastest and best way to bring out the gun snobs. You know these people, the ones who call nearly EVERYTHING "junk" that either you have, or that they have decided is "beneath them." A Sigma .40 was my 3rd or 4th handgun back in 1996 and has not presented a single problem the gun snobs go around pushing about the Sigmas. It is no exaggeration that 99% of gun owners I've met have bashed this model in one way or another if it comes up. To be expected, cops, who are already quite arrogant to begin with in my experience, have spoken 100% negatively about this model to me in favor of their taxpayer funded Glock (which I agree is better but that doesn't make the Sigma "junk"). To everyone else, who can spot an excellent value when you see one, especially Sigma owners, I'm curious how often people give you attitude about your choice in pistol.

December 10, 2005, 01:22 PM	#2
k9jri Member Join Date: September 3, 2004 Posts: 19	I like them all I have an SW9VE, KP95R15, KP345DR and a 1991A1. They are all good quality and good shooters. S&W service is absolutely tops!! and Ruger is close. In the past I owned a Glock 22 and a 23. They were good guns as well. Between the S&W, Ruger and Glock my first choice would be the Colt :-)

December 10, 2005, 05:58 PM	#6
k9jri Member Join Date: September 3, 2004 Posts: 19	Sigma is a good defensive weapon In all seriousness (this time) of the pistols that I own I prefer the SW9VE for my home defensive weapon. It shoots quite well and there is much less chance of an accidental 2nd or third shot when only one was intended. In this regard the Glocks are almost as good as the SW9VE but the SW9VE has a slightly longer trigger pull. Not stiffer, just longer. The SW9VE is not a range gun but it was not intended to be. Most of the DA/SA or SA (1911 types) pistols will be much better range guns. Use the right tool for the task. At the range my 1991A1 Colt shoots most accurately followed by the Ruger KP345 then by the Ruger KP95 and finally the Sigma SW9VE. At 25 feet all of them shoot quite well but in that order of group sizes. Even more accurate are my Ruger P512MKIII and the S&W 22A-1 .22 caliber pistols but they are a different class of tool than the centerfire pistols. Mike

December 10, 2005, 06:10 PM	#7
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,341	Do a search on the Sigma name - there've been a lot of threads over the years on just what you're talking about. With the exception that a couple of our biggest Sigma proponants are cops. So there went that theory at least. Still carry mine regularly - pushing 15,000 rds. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand? My site - stop by n see what I'm all about... Yes, there is gun stuff.

December 10, 2005, 10:37 PM	#12
denfoote Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Location: Buckeye Arizona Posts: 5,363	The monster that twisted Gaston's Pee-Pee!!! It has been flawless in all it's ways since it was created!!! No sin has been found within it!! __________________ Ich bin kein Nationalsozialist!!!!!! Ich bin Republikaner!!!!!!!! Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset. Arizona: Flush the Johns!!!

December 10, 2005, 01:41 PM	#3
TMcKenzie Junior Member Join Date: December 7, 2005 Posts: 13	Sounds ta me like ya's looking fora flame thread. Mmmhmmm My dad got a couple of those when it was just released. The first one was great and had no problems but the second was a bit more finicky with take down but that was all. I can't say I'm a fan of Sigmas or many other polymers out there but Sigmas aren't as bad as their rep would indicate. As for getting attitude for my pistols I don't think I only had a problem with a Witness 40 I had. My cousin and I each got a stainless 40 Witness. They weren't pretty but they were solid. But my cousin's turned out to be a jamomatic. He decided to trade his in but mine ended up having to constantly prove itself. Basically looking and waiting for something to go wrong with it. I won't say that my old witness was a great gun but it wasn't bad either.

December 10, 2005, 03:07 PM	#4
shamus005 Senior Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 517	I'm sure it's a great gun since it's a virtually copy of the Glock. (said with a little of this annd a little of this )

December 10, 2005, 03:52 PM	#5
Rivers Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 670	Spend the next $300 you thought you'd spend on another Stigma on psychotherapy. Paranoia and inferiority complexes can be treated, over time.

December 10, 2005, 06:34 PM	#8
CraZkid Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 435	It does what it is intended to do. But it is inadequate for my uses i.e. competition.

December 10, 2005, 06:49 PM	#9
Majic Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3,888	The Enhanced models are good pistols, but the early originals were a crap shoot. I personally was with my buddy when he bought his when they first came out and we went straight to the range. Took it down, cleaned, lubed, and it refused to run without malfunctions using various ammo and different mags. Took it back to the dealer and the paperwork was done to get another and that one also refused to run. He being more patient than me exchanged that one for a 3rd and finally hit the jackpot as that one is still running just fine. If you got a good one then count your lucky stars as I used to see quite a few of the originals being cussed at the range.

December 10, 2005, 07:23 PM	#10
pipoman Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2005 Posts: 895	My first ccw was the SW40V pictured below. It has been a good gun as long as I am not trying to shoot wadcutter ammo. It will not feed for some reason. Corbon works great, never a problem. A colleague of mine had one of the first compact 9mm Sigma it was a jamomatic. He returned it 2 times(10 years ago), it seems to function ok to date but he lost confidence in it and ranges with it only now. As for "attitude". About 5 years ago while conducting a surveillance I was approached by the Chief of Police of a small Kansas town. I identified myself and presented my credentials to carry. He immediately called me out of my truck at gun point, made me assume "the position", hit me in the head with his flashlight, handcuffed me, took me to jail and booked me for "obstructing official duty". He made several remarks about the Sigma including calling it a "cereal box prize". Two weeks later he was fired by the town, my case was dismissed. I filed a civil case, 1 1/2 later the city paid me a 5 figure apology.

December 10, 2005, 10:25 PM	#11
dickfunk Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 160	I think it was 2003 when I bought my SW9VE. It did take some time getting used to, just like all new guns. The one thing that took no time, was the ergonomics of it. I do agree that there are lots of Sigma 'bashers' out there, and most have probably never held one. I would put my SW9VE up against any Glock any time of the day. Would the Sigma survive the Glock 'torture test?' I don't know - but if I'm frozen in ice, falling out of a helicopter, or getting run over by a truck in the mud, I have bigger issues than my handgun not performing. I give it 2 thumbs up.

December 10, 2005, 11:11 PM	#13
timothy75 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Posts: 1,034	The sigma is a great gun exept the trigger is terrible and they wouldnt make any more black ones. They could have fixed this but instead brought out the sw99 and now the M&P and next year..........

December 11, 2005, 05:11 AM	#14
MrApathy Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2004 Posts: 470	they are still making the Sigma's they have a few every once in a while availible in melonite finish. look for GVE series in melonite. might have to have dealer order one. forget the online dealer only distrubitor had some melonite GVE's listed. the trigger is not that bad. you want a bad trigger try the kel-tec p11. sigma trigger can be worked on though heavy trigger on DAO pistol is a safety. wouldnt trade my Sigma 40VE or Steyr M40 for anything. okay might trade the steyr in for the newer generation Steyr MA1. havent heard what all improvements the latest GVE Sigma have. not crazy bout the green polymer frame. no word the Sigma line is being discontinued with advent of M&P, SW99 line didnt kill the sigma line either. must be good sales despite the trash talk. dont see glock selling stainless/polymer pistols for less than $350 with stainless mags.

December 11, 2005, 12:46 PM	#15
Marcus Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Posts: 1,156	I had a 40V (pre enhanced) some years ago. Mine was exceptionally reliable with everything from Corbons to weak 3D brand lead SWC reloads. Ergos were outstanding,sights decent,trigger nothing to write home about but usable. I found that several of the edges of stamped trigger ground components were left as stamped (rough). I duburred and smoothed those edges lightly and the trigger improved greatly. I put over 4K rounds through it before I sold it to a friend and he`s STILL a friend so that should say something for it. My only complaint with it was (at the time) the Clinton mags and the fact that although I shot it very well in fast drills,it`s target accuracy was so so. Maybe 3"-4" at 25yds. with most loads. Still an outstanding value though and a good HD or SD pistol for many folks. It would seem that they still sell very well. FWIW I also know 3 others with Sigmas (one a retired state trooper) who own Sigmas and are happy with them to this day. Marcus

December 11, 2005, 05:40 PM	#16
k9lwt Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2005 Location: Posts: 123	I am in no means a snob in any way. My department had many problems with the Sigma's we were issued and that's a fact. I was originally issued a Sigma .40C in 1998 along with other members of my department. We had many issues with them and traded them in for Glock 23's. We have had much better luck with the 23's.

December 11, 2005, 06:47 PM	#17
Te Anau Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2004 Location: Somewhere south of the North pole Posts: 3,142	A new (rail equipped) SW9VE is an unbeatable value in new handguns.I'd put one up against any number of other "good" guns and Im quite sure it would perform admirably. __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)

December 11, 2005, 07:27 PM	#18
Rivers Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 670	"He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool." Plato

December 11, 2005, 07:35 PM	#19
alston73 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 144	I'd be interested in the referenced substantiation of the "taxpayer funded" Glock claim. I do know that Glock sued S&W several years ago and won mightily for patent infringement. To make a musical reference, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. __________________ NRA Member Glock 17, Sig P239 .40

December 11, 2005, 08:43 PM	#20
JPipes Member Join Date: December 6, 2005 Posts: 19	Just shot mine today I just bought the SW9VE a couple of days ago as a first handgun and I took it to the range for the first time today. All I can say is that everything I've heard about the "sigma" line is false...with the exception of the trigger (but that apparently works itself out over time). 200 rounds between two shooters with no failures of any kind. Accurate to boot. I bought it a gun show in San Antonio for $289 plus tax, and I am extremely pleased. Good times...

December 12, 2005, 01:22 AM	#22
hexcentric1 Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 28	twelve pound trigger pull. ugh. otherwise a pretty good value. and every time a sigma is sold, glock makes money...

December 12, 2005, 01:46 PM	#25
ksmash01 Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2005 Posts: 142	my story... first pistol i bought....(SW9VE) I did something stupid and broke my extractor about 2500 rounds through it. It hadn't had a problem until then. got it back from S&W 10 days after i sent it to them. since then i've put over 1000 rounds through it, without a problem. The last time i took it to the range, i outshot a guy standing next to me with a glock 19 at 12.5 yards, right after he looked at my gun , . now the trigger isn't an issue.