Remington 870p VS Mossberg 590a1

[fett tracking]

Ok we all know that when it boils down to most shotgunners in America, its basically it boils down to a mossberg vs a remington.

There are many other excellent mfgers out there but its about that time to be real here.

I'm a remington guy. I own an Express HD and a police magnum (basic model #4901). I'm now interested in a mossberg 590A1 (A1only! #51411). I would really like to hear from some folks who own both.

There are wingmaster and express models. There are 500 and 590 models. These are not exactly considered the tastiest fruits of the tactical shotty tree.

So let's take the stocks and forends off the guns. Lets forget about location of the safeties, and slide lock levers. Forget about the fact that the 590a1 fits 1 more round than the 870p. Forget ergonomics, ability to accept accessories, different sight, finish, and any other options.

What I'm interested in is quality of product here. I love getting down to the nitty gritty. Who makes a better gun? The 590a1 and the 870 are the top of the line rhine for their respective companies (tactical-wise). What do you prefere?

[ShelbyV8]

I have used 870 police guns on duty and ran a lot of qualifications worked fine. I have a Maverick 88 with a 18.5" Marine coat barrel that I have complete confidence in. I doesn't make a lot of difference, both will last a lifetime as defencive weapon. Serious bird hunters shoot their guns much more than police guns are shot.

[Dave McC]

870.....

[Terrierman]

Having run thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds through my 870 Wingmaster purchased used in 1978 I bet you can guess which product I think is superior. If there's such a thing as a gold standard for pump shotguns, it has to be the 870.

[HSMITH]

The 590 is equal in quality and durability to the 870, and it has the safety where it belongs. Yup, the safety is the deciding factor for me. Other than that it is a wash.

[cslinger]

I am an 870 kind of guy. Police, Wingmaster, Express, Tactical etc. etc. etc. They all work, they are all smooth or smooth up nicely over time.

That being said pick the one that blows your proverbial skirt up. They are both great guns. Both work and work well. Just pick the one that fits.

Chris

[warwagon]

Agreed, both will do the job! Was issued 870 for patrol/stake out duty, purchased a mosberg for personal use(Late 70s).
The mosberg had dual opperating rods, and a lower price tag, that made the deal for me.Also the mosberg passed the US Marines tests at the time, and was (is?) used for embasy teams. Also like the made in America cachet of the mosberg

[FrontSight]

How do I start a new Poll? I only see the option for a new Thread...?

['75Scout]

I love my 1979 870 Wingmaster. It has an 18.5" barrel and factory rifle sights. I guess it was a slug gun. I bought it with and extended magazine already on it. My only modifications have been a Knoxx Compstock, which works extremely well by the way, and a Mesa tactical 4 round side saddel that my beautiful fiance got me for my birthday. It's a little heavy with a total of 11 rounds on board if the chamber is empty, and the lightweight stock makes is a little front heavy. But it sure is accurate with Rem 1oz sluggers. I plan to get it coated in an OD green color because I don't like blued steel for an HD gun.

[1BadF350]

I have an 870 and a 590. I say flip a coin.....you really can't lose. I have owned my 870 for 12 years, my 590 for 3 months. I like them both. I have shot thousands of rounds through the 870 over those 12 years and cleaned it maybe twice ... never a problem though.

[jkkimberfan]

Iv'e never fired an 870, so don't know much about them. I am sure they are fine shotguns. But I love my Mossberg 590. I've had mine out in the woods of West Virginia and shot it at the range, never had a single problem. Feels great, shoots great, and looks great. Very durable finish. Great racking sound, all steel. Top quality. I also own 2 500's. Going to get another 590 just too keep for a rainy day. And Made in America!

[Dfariswheel]

There was an interesting test done to determine how good the Remington 870 was in actual use.

The test was done by American law enforcement and ran from 1950 to today.
The results: The Remington 870 Police model is used by 95%-plus of all American police agencies.

DO NOT take my word for it. Simply go down to your local police department, your sheriff's department, your State police, and any Federal agency and check for what's in their cars.
By a 95%-plus margin, it'll be a Remington 870P.

NO other shotgun has the reputation for standing up to the abusive treatment that street cops can give shotguns.
The 870 has a 56 year history of taking anything the cops can dish out and still keep working.

Winchester tried to sell the Model 1200 and it failed in police use.
When the police made it clear that they would be buying no more Model 1200's, Winchester tried an improved model, the Model 1300, and it failed too.
Today no major police agency will touch a Winchester shotgun.

Smith & Wesson tried to break Remington's lock on the police market with the Howa-made near-clone of the 870, the Model 3000, and Remington handed S&W their head when the Model 3000 failed to take it.

Mossberg tried to break in to the law enforcement market with the Model 500 and it failed to stand up.
They introduced a much beefed up Model 590A1 to try to hang on and are getting a small percentage of the market.

One factor stands out in all this: Almost all these post-war failed attempts at police guns had aluminum receivers and stamped internals.
The 870 has a steel receiver, and heavy-duty fabricated internals.

Remington OWNS the police shotgun market in ways S&W and Glock dream of owning the police pistol market.
This is NOT because the 870P is cheaper, it's the most expensive by far, and it isn't because department buyers like the way the Remington rep smiles.

The police buy the 870 because it's a proven quantity with a long history that leaves no doubt about it's strength.

An old friend used to be an armorer for a big-city police department.
He used to joke that his supply of Remington repair parts "Would fit into a shoe box, with room left over for a burger and fries".

He and other LE armorers have told me that most of their 870 repair work was to replace broken sights, splintered wood, rusted guns, and bent or squashed barrels.
They say that it's fairly rare to have to repair an actual break down.

They will also tell you all about the disasters they went through when some bean counter forced the buyers to buy brands OTHER than the 870.

This is NOT to say that other guns are no good. It's just to say that when a gun is subjected to the bored police night watch version of "hold my beer and watch this", no other gun can take it and still keep working.

Police shotguns are used by everybody, but owned by nobody.
Like any piece of equipment everyone uses but for which no one is responsible, police shotguns get beaten and battered to death.
The 870 Police can take it and still work long after other brands have failed.

The bottom line is, most any shotgun will last a lifetime for the average "civilian" shooter.
But when you're a hard-core clay bird shooter who puts tens of thousands of rounds through a gun, or you're a cop or military man needing the toughest most durable gun possible, you buy an 870.

[Vic]

Im 44 and have been dove hunting with the same 870 my dad gave me when I was 19.
Vic

[cobain187]

NO other shotgun has the reputation for standing up to the abusive treatment that street cops can give shotguns.

*cough* AHEM *cough*

I have a sneaking suspicision that the USMC might just abuse(use) their shotguns more than police forces. I have never heard of a Marine complaining about the 590a1, wishing they were issued 870s. If 590a1s had durability issues, the USMC would have discovered them. (i.e. there are no issues !)


"Before there was light-kicking "tactical" buckshot, the U.S. Armed Services established Mil-Spec 3443E, a brutal and unforgiving torture test with 3,000 rounds of full power 12 gauge buckshot.
Only one pump action shotgun was heavy duty enough to pass. Mossberg."



There is nothing wrong with 870s. Many people like them. They are popular and reliable shotguns. Same for Mossberg. The only diff imho are ergonomic preferences of the user (safety and slide release) But the feeling I get from most 870 owners is that they look down on mossbergs as inferior(not necc crap, but inferior). Everyone is entitled to their opinions and preferences, but most 870 owners sound like they belong to a cult (not satanic, but a cult that worships the 870 and sees all others as inferior, which simply isn't true).


Bottom line. 870ps are reliable and durable. 590a1s are relaible and durable. Either will serve you will.


870 owners only need to realize that their shotgun is not an indestructable gun made of forged adamantium, while believing mossbergs are made of aluminum foil.



Peace

[Dfariswheel]

NO ONE said Mossberg's were junk or inferior.

The Mossberg Model 500 DID fail in heavy police use, which is why Mossberg introduced the much beefed-up Model 590A1.

"Before there was light-kicking "tactical" buckshot, the U.S. Armed Services established Mil-Spec 3443E, a brutal and unforgiving torture test with 3,000 rounds of full power 12 gauge buckshot.
Only one pump action shotgun was heavy duty enough to pass. Mossberg."

That would be because Mossberg was the ONLY shotgun maker to ever submit a gun for testing.

Remington never bothered for the simple reason that Mossberg with their cast aluminum frame and stamped parts will always be able to submit a lower bid than Remington can with their forged and milled steel gun with heavy duty internals.

Why bother submitting a gun for testing when there's no possibility of winning the contract.

While Mossberg sells some thousands of guns to the military, Remington sells hundreds of thousands to the police and those military units that are allowed to select their guns.

One example of "who's on first": The last figures the ATF released showed Remington selling almost TWICE as many shotguns as their nearest competetor...Mossberg.

In the case of the Police and military units that have a choice: When 95% plus of people are using something BY CHOICE, even though it costs more, you gotta figure they know something.

Again, for the average shotgun shooter, ANY decent pump gun will last a life time.

[Pezo]

I'm taking my new and yet unfired Mossberg 590-a1 to the range today. I'm gonna be firing some fiochhi slug's.

[Tim Whittaker]

Both are fine shotguns and will last several lifetimes, now that's out of the way, I have a few 870P's and am of the the opinion that the 870s are far and away the best available.

[Pezo]

back from the range and the 590-a1 functioned flawlessly. fired 3 different makes of rifled slug. Had a very unusual occurance with the remington managed recoil slug. I'll just say that if a badguy were in front of this thing getting hit. There' wouldnt be much left.

[Dirty_Harry]

Both shotguns are good guns, I have always owned 870's because personally I think mossberg has a low quality feel and the remington just feels solid

[joneb]

What does the US military think ?

[Dfariswheel]

"What does the US military think ?"

The US military thinks they'll use the Mossberg because they have NO CHOICE.

Mossberg won the contract and that's that.

However, for those special military units that are allowed to buy whatever they want, they buy Remington 870P Police models.

[joneb]

Well alrighty then

[joneb]

Dfariswheel, I did not mean for you to blow a gasket, I was just asking a question. I own a 870 wing master 12ga. and love it, it has served me well. I do not own a Mossberg nor have I shot one , but I am interested . I just want more info.

[SpitRhyma]

I don't have either of those particular models but I do have a Mossberg 500A (8-shot) which is similar to the 590 models...

Here are the CONS:
-Safety button in bad location on TOP of gun. It's not as easy as having it right to the side of the trigger so you can use your trigger finger right before firing.
-Safety button slides into safety-off smoothly but sticks and gets harder when turning it back on. Long story short: I found myself dangerously close to hitting the trigger while struggling to turn the safety on...so if you wanna keep a shot chambered but lock the gun until ready to fire this is a pain.
-Safety button is known to break so you have to be careful and be gentle
-The extractor's on the bolt aren't designed to always 'grab' the shell by the rim while racking it. The shell is pushed into the barrel then the extractor's are forced onto it. I'll try to edit my post later w/ some sort of visual

I hope this helps... I don't know if the Remi is any diff.

~SpitRhyma
000BK

EDIT:

Here is the diagram -- this is just to visually show the conceptual difference not an accurate animation

LINK: (flash animations require flash player plug-in)
http://spitrhyma.gom-team.com/rackingsg/racksg.html

[IZinterrogator]

I have a problem with your cons, Spit. The safety is under your thumb in its location at the top of the gun. Equally accessible for left-handed or right-handed people, unlike the Remington safety, and no slower than a trigger safety for me. The safety on the 500 and 590 is plastic and prone to breakage, but the 590A1's safety button is metal and that is the shotgun we are discussing. And I've never had a sticking safety problem with my 590A1, and I've had mine for five years. Oh well, YMMV.