Who carries a gun?

[model 25]

I feel it is important that we all get an understanding of the values it takes to be a responsible person when it come to carrying a gun. What are those values in life that deems you the kind of person to carry a gun? What makes you right when you pull the trigger? If it is only about life and death, the other guy is thinking the same thing about his life.

Good reflection on why you pack will be used in court one day if you shoot someone. You better look good to a jury

25

25

[XavierBreath]

What are those values in life that deems you the kind of person to carry a gun?

25,
I'm not sure where you are coming from with this thread, but.......
I carry a gun. I carry a gun 24/7. I have carried a gun 24/7 since 1992. Before that, I was in the military. Before that, I carried a gun.

I believe the most important qualities of a person who packs a gun to be maturity. Not just age, but maturity. Some folks never mature, and some people mature very young. One other quality I believe is important is a profound but realistic appreciation for life, for life changing injury, and for death. By carrying a weapon, you are assuming the responsibility for these issues. Appreciating their significance would not hurt.

Along with these two qualities that I consider important, is the mature perspective that under the laws of our land, others can disagree with me and my views, and still qualify to carry a gun. Every human has the right to self preservation, with the exception, of course of those few who would do great harm to others.

What makes you right when you pull the trigger?

What makes it right if I pull the trigger taking a life? Well 25, there is no right, no wrong. Right and wrong are opinions of fact. There is fact however. The facts of the events prior to the pulling of the trigger will determine whether the act of the trigger being pulled was "right" or "wrong".

[model 25]

25,
I'm not sure where you are coming from with this thread, but.......

I value my rights to carry a gun. It won't be me that gets that right taken away. However the liberals on the left will use any incident with a gun to try to take my rights away. Here on this site we talk about guns alot and some even dabble in politics(when the moderators let free speech run for more than two post ) but I see very little on the morality of the choice to carry a gun means.

Sure in tactical they kinda hit on it but I think to save us from the new guy who visits this site and takes away knowlegde that will harm us later that we need to start talking values and morality. How often have you read here that people read our post and sometimes they are not from here?

TFL had a big deal on "Raising the Bar" and it seemed mostly about spelling and grammar. Really raising the bar would be frank discussion of what is right and what is wrong so the new guy gets a drift of the responsibility of carrying a gun. Somebody here from TFL kills someone and the media will have a field day till they see some of use want to bring resonsibility to what knowledge comes from TFL.

I don't know if it's possible because the site seems to be PG as the moderators are heavy handed with anything they don't like but at least I am trying. So that's my motive here and that will always be what I am here for ,our gun rights and responsibilities.

Even my politics center around our rights and sometimes when I used to go to the politics side of this forum I would try to get the liberals here to understand what and where they came from. Unfortunatly the mods didn't like that either so I gave up.

Lets see where this goes

25

[XavierBreath]

Somebody here from TFL kills someone and the media will have a field day till they see some of use want to bring resonsibility to what knowledge comes from TFL.

Do a search. It's happened. More than once. Good and bad.

I still fail to see how the decision to carry or not carry a gun is a moral issue. It's a practical issue.

[model 25]

I still fail to see how the decision to carry or not carry a gun is a moral issue. It's a practical issue.

When you shoot someone you will be judged by 12 people that depending on your background the jury will be stacked for you or against you. If you have led a good life and it shows the DA will allow a more leaniant jury that if you are a known trouble maker. Don't believe it?

Well if juries are not stacked how do criminals get away with murder like OJ?
Also the questionair that you must fill out for jury duties tells them how you are predisposed to vote. Lawyers and DAs are part of the same communities and they make deals all the time.

Anyway to answer the Morality question, when you decide to carry a gun you are saying you are will to kill. In some states it can only be to protect life and other states as little as property. It is a moral decision to kill another person, proof is those with low morals commit murder. Those with high moral standards kill to save others enven to the point of their own death.

An imoral man carries no burden with the death of others at their hand.

25

[Majic]

The moral decision is to not let someone do bodily harm to you or others. The gun is just a tool to be used and as mentioned above that's just a practical decision. I would just as easily beat an attacker with a lead pipe if that was what I could get faster. The morality factor is that you really don't want to kill the attacker, but to just make him/her stop their aggression. You just accept the fact that they may die as a result of you trying to stop them. Everyone don't die from gunshot wounds. It would be moral to shoot someone violently attacking you. It would be immoral to have them down no longer attacking and then put a bullet in their head. Don't try to confuse the issue.

[Peeweester40]

TFL had a big deal on "Raising the Bar" and it seemed mostly about spelling and grammar. Really raising the bar would be frank discussion of what is right and what is wrong so the new guy gets a drift of the responsibility of carrying a gun.

The problem with this is, no matter how big brother 'raises the bar', we aren't going to be able to control what people take away from here. You can spell check and delete run-on sentences until the cows come home. You could practically eliminate all of the posts made in jest and make everything so frank here that Frank would want to change his name. People's reality is their perception. If someone wanted to know what it's all about to carry a gun and be responsible, they will have to ask a specific question and get a straight answer, an informed opinion, or follow a serious thread about the topic.

I doubt any new member or visitor will get any real useful knowledge from following Brock's thread about the storm calibers, but being diverse keeps it entertaining and it shouldn't be work.

[Weeg]

It fosters not only maturity, but a mature decision-making process on the part of the carrier, yes?

[XavierBreath]

Anyway to answer the Morality question, when you decide to carry a gun you are saying you are will to kill. In some states it can only be to protect life and other states as little as property. It is a moral decision to kill another person, proof is those with low morals commit murder. Those with high moral standards kill to save others enven to the point of their own death.
An imoral man carries no burden with the death of others at their hand.

Before this thread spirals out of control, I simply wish to say that a mature man does not judge the morality of others.

Your statements imply that you can know what is in a man's mind and what is in his heart. I do not believe in such clairvoyance. I would be very careful with these types of assumptions, and especially the ascription of moral principles to them. Judging people who have walked where you have not is an inherently precarious endeavor fraught with error and embarrassment. Be careful.

[WESHOOT2]

I am a reckless immature individual with a gun on me always.

However, I am a surviving immature blah blah blah..........

The only moral high ground from my perspective is that it is moral for someone to protect themselves and their loved ones; it is immoral for someone to expect others to do it for them.

If I wanna look good to the jury I'll cut my hair and wear a suit......

[model 25]

Your statements imply that you can know what is in a man's mind and what is in his heart. I do not believe in such clairvoyance. I would be very careful with these types of assumptions, and especially the ascription of moral principles to them. Judging people who have walked where you have not is an inherently precarious endeavor fraught with error and embarrassment. Be careful.

Carrying a gun you are doing exactly that, judgeing their morality. You have decided that there are enough imoral people out there that someone may hurt you and you are ready to be judge, jury and executioner in less than a second. That is unless you have used a lifetime to compile your moral principals and the action is just the culmination to that split second of decision to pull the trigger.

Your right, everyone does walk a different path and the guy that points his gun at you for money makes a bad choice. He wants money and you want to live. You don't know what he is thinking but you are going to shoot him to death to make sure you live. That is judgement( bad for him) not clairvoyance.

Your wrong in thinking you don't know what is in a man mind our heart. We see our neighbors actions everyday and how they live. It may be the great people across the street you like and spend time with or it may be the junkie across town but you know pretty much by how they live the morality they have. The guys that go off when you think they shouldn't are showing signs in their life if people look hard enough.

The signs are there if you are good or bad by the way you live and treat others. That isn't clairvoyance (like that word so used it twice ), it is being aware of what human behavior tells us. A good cop can smell a rat when he walks up to him, not cause he reads his mind but because his behavior is recognized as something seen countless time before.

25

[model 25]

I doubt any new member or visitor will get any real useful knowledge from following Brock's thread about the storm calibers, but being diverse keeps it entertaining and it shouldn't be work.

Yes we must be entertained Better to read about guns than to think about having to shoot someone. One of the better parts of growing up is reading the stories of men in a JUST cause useing guns to defend our nation or the people in it.

The stories about heros in law enforcement and the military that used to come out all the time were great. Too boring today as it isn't on a DVD or a game so the younger people can relate. They will never know Elmer Keith or Charlse Askins or Rex Applegate because they won't be on TV. Nor will they be able to see what kind of men they were and why they made the judgements to carry a gun.

Arming a society that doesn't include the education of morality will give us childeren who shoot up schools. I think the real problem here is people don't like their morality questioned.

25

[WESHOOT2]

"To understand all is to forgive all", but I'll shoot you if forced to, ay?

I still prefer my car; do the "energy" math

[MississippiKid]

Hello everyone. I just joined TFL today. I have enjoyed reading the posts in the past but thought I should put my 2 cents in here. I don't see where you figure "Morals" have anything to do with the decision to shoot another person or not. I had to make that decision a little over 4 years ago and I assure you that I didn't pause even a half second to make that decision. I didn't ask his intentions, I didn't try to determine his intentions nor did I give any thoughts to what would happen afterward. I just knew that the man pulled the passenger side door open on my vehicle with a knife in his hand which he was still holding when the coroner examined him on the street. I am alive today because of Mr. Sam Colt.

[WESHOOT2]

See?
Shoulda used a Kimber.

Seriously, glad you're still with us; understand.

[model 25]

Hello everyone. I just joined TFL today. I have enjoyed reading the posts in the past but thought I should put my 2 cents in here. I don't see where you figure "Morals" have anything to do with the decision to shoot another person or not. I had to make that decision a little over 4 years ago and I assure you that I didn't pause even a half second to make that decision. I didn't ask his intentions, I didn't try to determine his intentions nor did I give any thoughts to what would happen afterward. I just knew that the man pulled the passenger side door open on my vehicle with a knife in his hand which he was still holding when the coroner examined him on the street. I am alive today because of Mr. Sam Colt.

Legaly you were justified in your action the morality was was determined when you started packing your Colt (should have been a kimber). Society will not penalize you yet there will be liberals out there that just point a finger and say "yep more gun violence". Their morality is that you should have given up your car rather than kill another person.

You have no idea what the bad guy is willing to do or his full intention but his manner tells you he is a threat. Just like the manner of some of your neighbors, if you watch real close. Are they living a moral life or not? Ahh but the liberals say "who are you to judge"? Well you became judge, jury and exacutioner in less than a second and the only way this could happen is you were carrying your Colt. The ultimate judgement on peoples behavior.

25

[XavierBreath]

Carrying a gun you are doing exactly that, judgeing their morality. You have decided that there are enough imoral people out there that someone may hurt you and you are ready to be judge, jury and executioner in less than a second.

Your assumptions of my motives for carrying a weapon are wrong. Your clairvoyance fails you.

Not everyone carries a gun because they believe there are a lot of immoral people running around.
Some people carry a gun because they must venture into areas that are inherently dangerous to do their jobs.
Some people carry a gun because they travel with large amounts of cash, precious stones or narcotics.
Some people carry a gun because they have been victimized and do not want to be victimized again.
All of these are understandable reasons for carrying a gun, but the fact is, a person does not need a reason to exercise a constitutional right.
Nor does a person need a reason to preserve their own life.

Assigning morality to carrying a gun for protection is akin to assigning morality to going in to get a flu shot for protection. It is not a moral decision at all. It is a practical, realistic decision.
Assigning morality to the use of a weapon to preserve one's life is akin to assigning morality to undergoing a coronary bypass in the midst of a myocardial infarction. It's not a moral decision, it's a practical, life saving decision.

I'm sorry 25. I utterly fail to see your point, and your continued attempts at mind reading and morality assignments reveal more about yourself than anyone else.

[model 25]

Not everyone carries a gun because they believe there are a lot of immoral people running around.
Some people carry a gun because they must venture into areas that are inherently dangerous to do their jobs.
Some people carry a gun because they travel with large amounts of cash, precious stones or narcotics.
Some people carry a gun because they have been victimized and do not want to be victimized again.
All of these are understandable reasons for carrying a gun, but the fact is, a person does not need a reason to exercise a constitutional right.
Nor does a person does not need a reason to preserve their own life.

Every act you just discribed is a reaction to an imoral act by another person. The job is dangerouse because someone is imoral enough to hurt you.
They carry a gun in a high crime area because of the imorality of the people there.
Some person chose an imoral path that harmed the victim and so on.
Do you choose to carry a gun because an imoral person may harm you or do you carry a gun just because you can?

Assigning morality to carrying a gun for protection is akin to assigning morality to going in to get a flu shot for protection. It is not a moral decision at all. It is a practical, realistic decision.

When you get a flu shot it doesn't envolve killing someone else, carrying a gun does when protecting your life. Tells me alot that you see the enemy more like the flu than a human

Assigning morality to the use of a weapon to preserve one's life is akin to assigning morality to undergoing a coronary bypass in the midst of a myocardial infarction. It's not a moral decision, it's a practical, life saving decision.

Again this is wrong as you say saving your life by medical help equals saving your life by killing another. But if you need a heart bad enough

I'm sorry 25. I utterly fail to see your point, and your continued attempts at mind reading and morality assignments reveal more about yourself than anyone else.

Nice effort to demonize my life but I understand the world you come from. People don't like to think about morality of what they do because they are in general self centered. You best discribed it yourself, you fail to understand.

Since you chose the path to degrade me I have given back what I got. Now they will shut down the thread (are you happy) and no one will gain from it but you in shutting down someone you disagree with. The censors will save you further embarassment.


25

[Marlboro Man]

I carry all the time, everywhere. It's my god given right!

[mec]

When I think I'm going to need a gun, I stay at home. All other times, I carry a gun. The morality comes when some dude convinces me to shoot him. He would have to work at it because I don't want to shoot anybody and don't need the agravation, but the decision would be his.

[XavierBreath]

Every act you just discribed is a reaction to an imoral act by another person.

No, they are a reaction to the realities of the world, not the morals of the world, or an immoral act of another person.

When you get a flu shot it doesn't envolve killing someone else, carrying a gun does when protecting your life. Tells me alot that you see the enemy more like the flu than a human

Again your clairvoyance fails you. I lost three patients so far this winter to influenza. All refused flu shots. Failure to recieve a flu shot, like failure to carry a gun may result in your own death.

Again this is wrong as you say saving your life by medical help equals saving your life by killing another. But if you need a heart bad enough

You are a bit to focused on taking a life my friend. Try to focus on saving a life instead.

Nice effort to demonize my life but I understand the world you come from. People don't like to think about morality of what they do because they are in general self centered. You best discribed it yourself, you fail to understand.

Wow, I do not know what to say. Your statements have gone from confusing to insulting, and neither of us deserve that. I will not insult you in return, but I will say that I have walked the path that you are so worried about. You can call me moral, immoral, call me a sinner, a savior, or whatever you want. I don't care. I am just glad my oldest daughter can call me on the telephone, and my youngest can call me alive. I do not know who you think you are that you have the right to judge other people, but I am glad that you will never serve on a jury of my peers.

I have not tried to degrade you, but rather discuss these issues with you in an intelligent manner. I will not degrade you, but I should mention it's spelled immoral.

[model 25]

I met a criminal who was convicted under the Habitual Criminal Act that gave him a bigger sentence because they said he was crime prone. I asked why he turned to crime? He said " his father died and left the family penniless and without hope or help. He turned to crime as it was easier than begging along with that was the opertunity of the moment to stay alive.

He was a bad man and he said what really made him more offensive is that when he was young he stole a car to get somewhere and when the cops chased him they shot at him trying to kill him. He said " can you imagine someone trying to kill a fourteen year old kid over a stolen car. It convinced him society as we see it wasn't for him. Crime was his path. He is dead now.

Dead is dead, would he be better dead early on before the crime? Well I guess that is what abortion is about,kill em before they grow up unwanted to be criminals.

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[The Immortal]

Good post mec.

[model 25]

I have not tried to degrade you, but rather discuss these issues with you in an intelligent manner. I will not degrade you, but I should mention it's spelled immoral.

Clever use of words, glad you mentioned it. Hey I don't mean to degrade you but here let me degrade you Sharp, guess that's why your a doctor. Now I understand how you view human life and that is all I need to know why the discussion of morality bothers you. Nothing personal, just my view

25

[XavierBreath]

guess that's why your a doctor.

Your clairvoyance fails again 25.

He said " his father died and left the family penniless and without hope or help. He turned to crime as it was easier than begging along with that was the opertunity of the moment to stay alive.

Most criminals have excuses. Many orphans grow up to be productive citizens.

Well I guess that is what abortion is about,kill em before they grow up unwanted to be criminals.

No need to bait with straw men.

Now I understand how you view human life and that is all I need to know why the discussion of morality bothers you. Nothing personal, just my view.

No sir, you do not. You obviously have no inkling how I view human life. Not a clue. Nada. You simply desire to use the value I assign to all human life to try to bait me into debating your ideas regarding the morality of self preservation.

You fail to see any point other than your own, so I will cease trying to share an alternate view. Having reviewed my previous statements, I believe my points are clear, concise, and accurate as to my beliefs. If you can tolerate a difference of opinion, go back and examine them. If not, then take some more personal cheap shots at me.

The ball's in your court 25.