Open Carry

[erh]

JoshB - Everyone has their own thoughts & opinions... Mine are this: "I go out of my way NOT to try and intimidate people; doesn't work too well I'm a 235 pounder anyway... But, I don't personally agree w/ open carry except out in the "Boondocks", because I always go out of my way to NOT let people know, or notice that I am armed (always..!) Just my simple .02 cents...
Eric

[NRAhab]

I loved VA's open Carry laws. Having lived the better part of two years in the Megopolis of NoVA, I could and would open carry into Harris Teeter in Reston to buy groceries.

I probably made some people uncomfortable, but at the same time; a young man in a tie with a gun isn't that uncommon in Reston/Herdon.

[USP.40]

I usually don't open carry. I do when I hunt though. I prefer to have the advantage of a bg not knowing I'm packing. My friend does it all the time though.

[918v]

If anyone panics or has a seizure,you sure can be sued.

You mean I have to cover-up just because some defective freak of nature has a seizure? Do you have any caselaw to that effect? What would be the theory of recovery? Negligence? So we now have to be sensitive to every possible psychological anomaly?

[Baradium]

In my opinion,i'm against open carry unless the state like arizona requires it.
Even if its legal,that means legal for right now (until a rule change comes into effect) If anyone panics or has a seizure,you sure can be sued. I started carrying in 1990 with my CCP. I learned about it from a husband of one of my wifes friends....
He showed up at my house with a Taurus PT 92 in a shoulder holster. Just a few months later he lost his CCP,he walked into a bank open carry and the police were close by and were called in. No badge,the people panicked and thought he was doing a stick up.
The first thing he said when he was being arrested in handcuffs is hey i can do this its legal,i have a permit.

But he broke the law if I read that correctly by *not* having a permit. Let's not confuse breaking laws with following them. If he was within the law I doubt he'd have been charged if he didn't do something. If he wasn't breaking the law then you are talking about him being arrested exercising rights, and I'm sure there would have been some pro gun groups making a fuss.

I think open carry is legal here in Alaska, but I'm still kinda iffy about doing it myself. I'd really hate to draw attention to myself, and make someone think that I'm a bad person, or have a cop ask me why I'm carrying a gun on me. I do carry concealed though, which I think is better anyway. Out of sight, out of mind!

Open and concealed carry is legal without a permit. It's ruled as an expressed right in Alaska to do either. Alaska is a very gun friendly state. In the cities people might notice, but I doubt it'd raise eyebrows too much (except maybe looks from tourists). The police there know about carry laws and know that open carry is legal per http://www.opencarry.org/ (and that also fits in with my observations). It's your right (and specifically granted as such) by state law and you have no need to worry about exercising it.

In Ohio, open carry is technically legal, but just not done. Perhaps there are some rural communities where everybody knows everybody else where it's tolerated, but then, one wouldn't probably feel a need to carry in a place like that. A couple years ago, I saw a guy wearing a holstered pistol leaving an ice cream shoppe in our community, but just that one instance. Never saw him again.

I suspect if an average Joe type guy were to open carry, a lot of people he encountered might assume he's a plain clothes cop. Others would probably call in to report a "man with a gun." If the guy were a dirtball or gangbanger type, there would probably be a lot of freaking out.

A cop friend of mine told me cops would certainly stop an open carry and probably arrest them for disorderly conduct or inciting panic.

Your cop friend is saying that he would make up his own laws because he does not approve of the current ones. That is a violation of rights and the laws.

I'm frankly surprised by the number of people who say "just because it's legal doesn't mean you *CAN* do it." Maybe people would rather you not, but if it's specifically allowed by law, it is *allowed* and should not be prohibited.

------------------------------------------------

In my case, my first firearm that I'll have access to in Alaska is going to be too big to conceal carry, so it'll be open carry or not at all. Granted, I live in the "bad" area of Fairbanks right now... and the bad area of fairbanks doesn't make me feel too nervous.

I believe the key to open carrying is that you need to act like you're allowed to have the firearm. Not like you're showing off, but not like you're afraid people will notice. As long as you carry yourself like what you're doing is a normal everyday thing and you're allowed to do it, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

As far as those that say some states allow it but people "just aren't used to it." I think that is all the more reason for as many people as possible to open carry to get people used to it again. There's no reason to surrender a right just because you're worried of offending someone.

[AFshooter]

Open carry is legal in Nebraska, and I would say less than 5% of the population knows it. Open carry here and you will find yourself on your face taking commands from a LEO. Of course I am speaking the western most part of the state (where over 85% of the population lives).

The new CCW is coming in 01/07 but the most dangerous areas (North Omaha) are exempt because they already have laws against CC, even though it is illegal statewide. (?)

The local news stations are so anti-gun that they use language like "Nebraskans will soon be able to roam the streets with hidden guns"
and "you have little to worry about, Omaha is exempt."

The polls are very positive for CCW. I can't wait to see what happens when thousands of Omaha and Lincoln residents get there CCW permit.

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by Baradium

As far as those that say some states allow it but people "just aren't used to it." I think that is all the more reason for as many people as possible to open carry to get people used to it again. There's no reason to surrender a right just because you're worried of offending someone.

Which is just what I say in the story I related earlier, either in General or L&P, IIRC. Since it was some time ago, I will relate it again:

When I first moved to Idaho, back in the start of the eighties, it was all too common to see people driving around with shotguns and rifles tacked up in their trucks. Farmers would come to town with their pistols strapped to their legs. It turned no heads. Caused no commotion. Was the accepted mode of everyday attire. Of course, you didn't need to lock your cars or trucks back then. Heck, you didn't need to lock your house up when you left it for a bit.

No one was bothered. Thefts of property were rare. Burglaries even rarer.

Slowly, as more and more people moved in from other more restrictive states; as the gangs moved in with them; as the druggies became more of a problem; this lifestyle began to come apart. Too, we had young men join our Police Force. Some, not all, came from other ares that were much more restrictive, as far as guns go. These younger LEO's brought their restrictive ideas with them.

I watched the neighborhood, where I bought my house, change from mostly older white folk (with a few of us "youngsters," peppered here and there), turn into Mexico North. As the older citizens died off and their "kids" didn't want the old houses, the hispanics would buy them up and move in. For some reason, this intimidated the few younger whites who remained. They sold their houses and moved out. It was immigrants and migrants that bought them up also.... Till I found that I was one of the very few whites that still lived in the area.

Many of these folk were migrants from the Central Valley of California. With them, they brought their families. Among these families were young bucks who thought they had to make some sort of social statement... Like "we own this turf."

That didn't set well with me or most of my immediate neighbors. That was when my wife and I started carrying openly, as we went about our daily routines in our yard. Some of the local kids, thought it was fun to raid other peoples gardens. Or paint graffiti on outbuildings facing the alleys. Most of them decided that they didn't want to mess with crazy white folk that walked around with guns on their hips.

So pretty soon we could be found, out and around town, with our guns strapped on. Didn't seem to bother anyone... At least no one ever commented on this. Not the stores, not the gas stations, not even the banks.

But the wannabe gangsters were beginning to take over our part of the town. That's when I started noticing that my immediate neighbors began wearing their guns. It soon got to the point where the presence of the city police was everywhere in our neighborhood. Shootings started occurring, as one gang invaded another's turf. Almost always at some big fiesta.

With the increasing gang activity, you know it just had to happen. Came one day, when my wife and I were working in the front yard, we saw a bunch of guys walking up the street, a couple of blocks away, picking up small rocks and throwing them at parked cars as they moved towards my block. Well, we stood out towards the street, making sure the thugs could see us. Suddenly, I noticed that all my neighbors were standing out by their yards. All of them were armed. Pistols, shotguns and rifles. We looked at each other and smiled, then watched as the thugs came closer. They came to the intersection that led to our street and saw us. They dropped their rocks and decided to walk in another direction.

We ended up doing this about three more times that year. Never been bothered by these cretins since. Our other neighbors down the street saw what happened and they began to do the same thing. Now, we hardly ever see these thugs. Oh, they make their presence known from time to time, but so do we. No trouble. They've got guns, we know this. But so do we, and you know? They don't seem to want to be the first to throw lead. Suits me just fine.

I may be the only Anglo left in the area, where we live, but I get treated with the same dignity and respect that I show my neighbors. We all watch each others houses. We all make it a point of telling each other when we will be gone for more than a few hours.

In other parts of our town, the thugs walk about like they own the place. Maybe they do. They paint graffiti on many of the buildings and fences facing the alleys. But not here. Not in our neighborhood. Most, if not all of us are armed and we're not afraid to show these punks, we mean to protect what is ours. All of us go to the stores and gas stations and banks, armed. Openly carrying and it bothers no one.

(continued)

[Al Norris]

(continued from previous post)

Oh to be sure, every once in a while, someone is hassled about their guns. It's usually by some young LEO who didn't grow up in rural Idaho and therefore is not familiar with our laws. It's also taken care of real quick. The older officers make sure they get educated... One day, a couple of years ago, my son was home on leave. He had just bought a new 300 Weatherby and found a scope for it. He walked over to the town square where our gun dealers has his shop and purchased the scope and had Dave, the owner, bore sight it. Then he walked back home. Seems that as he was crossing the square, some young transplant saw him and his shouldered rifle. This must have given her a case of the vapors, as she called the police to report a "man with a gun." Well the young officer called Dave at the Trading Post, because the lady said the "gun guy" came from there. The officer wanted to know if a young man had just left there with a rifle. Dave replied that, "yes a client had just left. What was the problem?" The officer said that he "was walking through town with it on his shoulder." Dave says, "And so, what's the problem?" The officer says, "He's Got A Gun!" Dave asked the young officer if the man was threatening anyone? Was he pointing the rifle at anything? No? Then what's the problem? Dave says that he proceeded to inform the officer of the rights of Idahoans. Dave knows the laws. Not only is he an FFL holder, he's a retired Idaho State Policeman.

Over the years, I've taken many of my neighbors out to our range and taught them proper handling and safety. Today, when I go to the range, I'll inevitably get asked by someone what I'm shooting today, and more often than not, take someone with me.

A visibly armed society is a polite society.

We seldom have city cops come around our neighborhood any more. Those people that belong to gangs, just don't seem to want to cause any trouble... At least not here. We still have many fiestas during the summer weekends, but no more shootings. We still get a little gang activity, but they know better than to do more than just walk through the neighborhood.

I guess what I'm trying to show, is that the loss of open carry occurs because it simply goes out of favor as a society evolves. First it occurs in the major metropolitan areas and spreads out as urbanites spread to suburbia and the rural environs.

And just the reverse needs to happen, in order to bring it back. It was easier here, because it was "out of favor" for only a short period of time. Oh to be sure, it is still not as commonplace as I would like to see it, but it is happening. Despite the fact that it "scares" the bliss ninnies here (yes, we have them... too many, if you were to ask me!).

For those of you that live in states that actually have laws against common folk being armed, it will take a concerted effort. But it can be done.

Of course, their is still the question of, "Should it be done?" Some people will tell you that by openly carrying, you are inviting trouble. You are making yourself a target, afterall any bad guys will see you're carrying and shoot you first. And so on and so forth. There may be some truth to what these people say (even though it is a false assumption, here, in rural Idaho).

But I tend to think, that those bad guys would generally leave you alone, most especially if there are more than one of you. The risks to them are too great, when confronted by more than just one person with a visible gun. Consider that the police can walk around, armed, and for the most part, they are safe. Why wouldn't the same hold for citizens? In theory, it should.

Yet still, it comes back to what some folks are trying to say... That the will of the public is what determines normality. Here in Idaho, I have the unadorned right to carry openly, should I so desire. Brandishing laws cannot be used to curtail that right, even if it scares someone.

Having said that, if I were to go from where I live to Boise, Pocatello, Idaho Falls or Coeur d'Alene, I would probably find myself facing down the cops. They don't like it. It's just not done. And many of the younger guys just don't know the law or our history. I have done this in Boise, only to be asked, politely, to conceal it, if I have a license (and they know I do, as they check my DL, which my CWP is connected to), so as not to scare the "sheep." Depends upon what I'm actually doing as to whether or not I can or will comply.

I always open carry when I'm in Blaine County (Hailey/Sun Valley), however. I will admit I do this to spite the bliss ninnies there. It's a mean streak I let loose. Actually, it's quite satisfying. These are the same people who on the one hand, helped to stamp out camping, fishing and hunting to a large extent, on the upper reaches of the Big Wood River. All so that they could enjoy the beauty of the natural forests and all those wonderfull creatures that inhabit it... Now that the Brown Bears have come back, they are complaining how dangerous it is becoming! HAH! The mountain lions are coming back also, they are just naturally more stealthy than those big lumbering bears. At any rate, I've gotten into many a fine discussion with the police there. Guns, rigs, shooting, hunting and the attitude of the transplants towards the locals.

But then again, this is Idaho and by and large, we're pretty cavalier about guns in general everywhere outside of our "big cities." Carry 'em if ya got 'em, especially in Sun Valley!...

[Jack Malloy]

The only real "problem" with Open Carry is
• The Sheeple who have been programmed by PC society to panic over the sight of a gun.
• Rookes who have not figured out that the law abiding citizen is often their only back up when the real crap hits the fan and there are no other LE officers around to save their bacon.

[Mikeyboy]

Quick legal question. Are you allowed to open carry if your not a resident of that state? I would just wait for the permit to come in.

[doubleR]

Antipitas... All I can say is, Thanks! - 'Nuf said.

[Al Norris]

Mikeyboy, the answer in Idaho is: Yes.

DoubleR, you're welcome.

[johnsonrlp]

What other states can you open carry in without a permit? What about concealed w/o permit?

[Pampers]

While Tennessee is not a "Concealed Only" State, Open Carry is not really encouraged. And while Open Carry is not unlawfull, it'll certainly get you noticed in the local Kroger or Wal-mart. The least it'll do is get some Kid yelling "Look Mommy, he's got a GUN!" At worst, they'll have some (Maybe not so nice Policeman) come tell you you're a very rude fellow. And remember, even if the Business isn't posted, if they ask you to leave, you have to leave ,,, immediately!

The purpose of our Law is to prevent some local Barnie Fife from busting you should your coat blow open and expose your Piece.

If you live in an area where it's common and accepted to cary open, GREAT! If it's not common and you (conspicuously) are the only one with a Gun at an armed robbery, guess who the robbers (or the Cops) will cap first!

Remember, SUPRISE is your greatest weapon!

[Brent]

"I find open carry to be a bit of a risk, since citizens never use police type retention holsters."

Absolutely NOT true. I use a Don Hume 727.



http://www.donhume.com/Products/Prod...fm?ProductID=1

[Duxman]

Antipitas - your novella has brought tears to my eyes....that is beautiful man.

But enough of this sentimental stuff:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...rry+open+carry

I too have chronicled my open carry experiences in Northern Virginia. And it was
been extremely positive. If the sheepies dont like it, they can move to Maryland.

[Jack Malloy]

I did see an interesting gun review one time of a camo sig. Mass Ayoob pointed out that for somebody doing the open carry thing that the gun worn in an uncle mikes camo holster on camo clothes would be fairly inconspicuous....

Years ago, I saw a Camo Colt Govt. Model that struck me as pretty nice looking and I generaly don't like Camo anything. To my way of thinking, Camo is something you do, not something you buy....
Like tactical, LOL....

[Jack Malloy]

http://www.ohioccw.org/index.php?opt...3613&Itemid=83

[JesseL]

Whoops, disregard.

[RangerHAAF]

I love the concept of open carry and I look forward to my next trip to Virginia. I haven't been there since the late 90's, I like Virginia and the only traveling drawback for me is that radar detectors are illegal.

[WhiteFeather93]

Antipitas as always your views on OC are a warm ray of acceptance.

Just a few thoughts to add to the conversation...

Read the state laws regarding all forms of carry and verse yourself because you will be questioned sooner or later. When I OC I prepare myself mentally and keep a pamphlate or some sort of information on me to further the education of self defense and law regarding both forms of carry. When you OC aside from other advantages you have in regards to defense you also gain the chance to educate people on the carry of firearms. I feel it is the responsibility of everyone to educate those who wish to be educated. If someone asks a question try to answer it.

Check out http://opencarry.org/ click on the state, read the information and then go to the forum. Many of the members have mad handouts that you can print out and take with you to help inform the populace.

Taking some time to learn some weapons retention skill and proper holster will go a long way. But remember that you must be aware of your surroundings.

Good luck and most of all enjoy life.