Don't shoot +Ps in Airweight J frames!

delzo · June 5, 2006, 05:07 PM

I bought this Model 38 S&W recently from a neighbor. It was unfired the whole time he owned it,,, since the late 1950s. I had no intention of using +P ammo in it very often but wanted to see how it handled them. Well, it DIDN'T handle them. I shot it a total of FIVE times and something told me to do a quick inspection.

Darn.

Doug.38PR · June 5, 2006, 05:11 PM

YIKES!!!

Are you saying that standard .38 Specials alone did this before you even decided to go ahead and try .38 Special+P or are you saying that +Ps did this to the gun?

I understand +Ps are safe for more recent models of the S&W airweight but not for those made in the 50s and 60s.

delzo · June 5, 2006, 05:23 PM

For over 40 years, my neighbor said he carried +P ammo in the revolver but never shot it. It had a full load of some mysterious Winchester hollowpoint +Ps with pretty little silver bullets. I shot those 5 and the weapon was history!

Edit to add,,,,, before I tried it out I asked my ammo dealer his opinion on +Ps in the airweight. He said "frame stretching was not a problem on any Smith made from the 50s on".

Wrong!

SAWBONES · June 5, 2006, 07:19 PM

Smiths can be nice, but the little Airweight J-frames are a bit wimpy when shot much with full power loads.
I prefer the all-steel examples, or for pocket carry, the scandium alloy types.

Laz · June 5, 2006, 08:44 PM

Delzo - I agree with you on the use of plus P in older airweights, but the picture is not frame stretching. There are threads on smithwessonforum.com about the cracked frame under the forcing cone on some, usually older airweights. The consensus seems to be the cracks occurred by over-torquing the barrel in the frame and then shooting makes it worse and visible. Not sure if that's the case but that's what folks say. I think hot loads probably are a factor also if there is a hairline crack there in the first place. As I understand "frame-stretching" it is the slight and progressive elongation of the top strap from using too hot loads which eventually causes headspace problems, light strikes, and eventually regular misfires.

18DAI · June 5, 2006, 09:05 PM

Frame stretching occurs on the topstrap. You've got a frame crack from an over torque as was previously mentioned. Call S&W customer service tommorow, they may want you to send it in. Who knows, people have gotten brand new guns to replace the destroyed ones before. You might be lucky, of course it will have a lock. Regards 18DAI.

chrisandclauida2 · June 6, 2006, 12:55 AM

as said 2 times this is from over torque of the barrel to frame. smith should replace this for free or a small fee to transfer serial number to new weapon.

and dont tell them you were shooting +p in this weapon they will say so sorry your screwed.

delzo · June 6, 2006, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I did as instructed and called Smith & Wesson this morning and the guy told me to send it in. He said they'd analyze it, see what it'd take to fix me up and call me back with the options.

Gee, I sure like that little titanium 342PD!

JNewell · June 6, 2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Gee, I sure like that little titanium 342PD!

No good, been out of production for a couple of years now, replaced (in effect) by the 360 which is basically the same but shoots .357 Mag.

delzo · June 15, 2006, 03:42 PM

SEVEN days after my Model 38 was sent, my gunsmith called and said my NEW Model 638 was waiting for pick up!

Shoots great! My hat is off to S & W customer service. I'm impressed.

357 Plato · June 15, 2006, 04:15 PM

Taking your hat off and all that, I take it you got it free of charge?

If yes: Wow

Nice little revolver by the way

delzo · June 15, 2006, 05:16 PM

Yep,,,, free.

Well,,, the shipping was $48. No sweat!

skeeter1 · June 15, 2006, 07:50 PM

I was concerned about using +Ps in my Smith 60-3, so I queried them directly. They told me it was OK to use +Ps.

I know my Smith is stainless steel, and quite different from your airweight, but I was quite impressed that S&W support got back to me within a few hours.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10504

Svarthek · June 15, 2006, 07:59 PM

I'm impressed with that support. Nice replacement.

NRC · June 16, 2006, 11:26 AM

Delzo -

Can you let me know how you initially contacted them (a phone # and maybe even an employees name at SW would be awesome)?

I have a Mod 66 that has the same issue and after reading this I am considering sending it back to them.

Thanks in advance -

Nate

Fer · June 16, 2006, 12:19 PM

Delzo!!,

You lucky you!!! what a beauty, I bet you felt bad after shooting those 5 +Ps and messing up your revo, but how do feell now!!!!. How much did you pay for the 1950 38? plus $48, that is the cost of that brand new beauty!!.
Does it have a lock?? I heve never seen that darn lock, I hear everyone talking about it, can you post a pick of the other side if it has a lock please.
I bet that if does have a lock it cant messup the looks of that nice little revo.
For free I cant believe it, some guys have all the luck!

NRC · June 16, 2006, 12:27 PM

the lock is shown in the pic - its that little black dot right above the cylinder release.

-

delzo · June 16, 2006, 02:16 PM

I contacted customer service by phone. 1-800-331-0852. I don't remember the guy's name I spoke to but he was very pleasant and I have no reason to think everyone would not be treated the exact same.

Yep, the black hole above the cylinder release is the lock. It came unlocked and will stay unlocked!

I'd say the whole ordeal was pretty good since I only gave $250 for the Model 38. I was pretty bummed at first but see how lucky I was now. The 638 is actually easier to shoot with the larger grips it came with. The tiny ones on the Model 38 was tough to grip with my large hands. It wanted to twist in my grip. I am more than satisfied!

Detective_Special · June 16, 2006, 03:18 PM

I've found S&W service to be outstanding, I needed a higher front sight on my 3914 9mm. When I called customer service to find out what was available, they had all the info, from the different heights to the proper installation. All the info provided in the same day by E-mail, and delivered ( in Canada) to my door within the week. Which brings me to your beautiful 638, looks great. Congrats

Fer · June 16, 2006, 04:10 PM

Well that lock aint as bad as I tought, from all the fuzz I´ve heard I tought it looked like one of those antic key holes used in middle age locks seen in movies. Is it similar to the Taurus lock? is it just placed on the side instead of the hammer? does it use like a hex key?

NRC · June 16, 2006, 04:30 PM

Fer -
yup its on the side instead of the hammer. i have the same 638, and love it. first thing I did was make sure it was unlocked, then throw the key in the safe where I can find it if I ever trade it or decide to use it...

Not to open a can of worms - when sw first started issuing these locks, I was more than a little annoyed with them. seems like a gimmick to me

i feel like some folks will take the lock as a substitute for responsible handling *likewise* if you are responsble in the first place then items like these aren't required...

anyway, they are great pistols and I got over my initial issue with the lock, and I just choose not to use it. Its a great ccw / backpacking / tacklebox piece.

regards -

Nate

GreenFlash107 · June 16, 2006, 09:27 PM

Delzo, you made out like a bandit. Very nice replacement. As for the Lock, small price to pay for what you ended up with.

Glockamolie · June 16, 2006, 11:32 PM

WARNING - just a thought...

If you shot those 40-year-old Plus Ps, couldn't this have something to do with it? I know there's a lot of old ammo that still gets shot, but some powders are unstable over time, or so I've read. But, then again, I've read a lot of things.

Al Thompson · June 18, 2006, 05:39 AM

Glockamolie, in a word, no. BTW, powder gets weaker, not stronger with age. I've fired ammo loaded in WWII, only issue was misfires.

As posted, it was a manufactoring error.

June 5, 2006, 05:07 PM	#1
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	Don't shoot +Ps in Airweight J frames! I bought this Model 38 S&W recently from a neighbor. It was unfired the whole time he owned it,,, since the late 1950s. I had no intention of using +P ammo in it very often but wanted to see how it handled them. Well, it DIDN'T handle them. I shot it a total of FIVE times and something told me to do a quick inspection. Darn.

June 5, 2006, 07:19 PM	#4
SAWBONES Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: The third dimension Posts: 670	Smiths can be nice, but the little Airweight J-frames are a bit wimpy when shot much with full power loads. I prefer the all-steel examples, or for pocket carry, the scandium alloy types. __________________ "Humani nihil alienum"

June 5, 2006, 08:44 PM	#5
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	Delzo - I agree with you on the use of plus P in older airweights, but the picture is not frame stretching. There are threads on smithwessonforum.com about the cracked frame under the forcing cone on some, usually older airweights. The consensus seems to be the cracks occurred by over-torquing the barrel in the frame and then shooting makes it worse and visible. Not sure if that's the case but that's what folks say. I think hot loads probably are a factor also if there is a hairline crack there in the first place. As I understand "frame-stretching" it is the slight and progressive elongation of the top strap from using too hot loads which eventually causes headspace problems, light strikes, and eventually regular misfires. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.

June 15, 2006, 07:50 PM	#13
skeeter1 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2006 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 3,403	Ouch! I was concerned about using +Ps in my Smith 60-3, so I queried them directly. They told me it was OK to use +Ps. I know my Smith is stainless steel, and quite different from your airweight, but I was quite impressed that S&W support got back to me within a few hours. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...ectionId=10504

June 16, 2006, 11:26 AM	#15
NRC Member Join Date: August 31, 2000 Posts: 17	contact info? Delzo - Can you let me know how you initially contacted them (a phone # and maybe even an employees name at SW would be awesome)? I have a Mod 66 that has the same issue and after reading this I am considering sending it back to them. Thanks in advance - Nate __________________ Train hard.

June 5, 2006, 05:11 PM	#2
Doug.38PR Junior member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Posts: 3,298	YIKES!!! Are you saying that standard .38 Specials alone did this before you even decided to go ahead and try .38 Special+P or are you saying that +Ps did this to the gun? I understand +Ps are safe for more recent models of the S&W airweight but not for those made in the 50s and 60s.

June 5, 2006, 05:23 PM	#3
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	For over 40 years, my neighbor said he carried +P ammo in the revolver but never shot it. It had a full load of some mysterious Winchester hollowpoint +Ps with pretty little silver bullets. I shot those 5 and the weapon was history! Edit to add,,,,, before I tried it out I asked my ammo dealer his opinion on +Ps in the airweight. He said "frame stretching was not a problem on any Smith made from the 50s on". Wrong!

June 5, 2006, 09:05 PM	#6
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	Frame stretching occurs on the topstrap. You've got a frame crack from an over torque as was previously mentioned. Call S&W customer service tommorow, they may want you to send it in. Who knows, people have gotten brand new guns to replace the destroyed ones before. You might be lucky, of course it will have a lock. Regards 18DAI.

June 6, 2006, 12:55 AM	#7
chrisandclauida2 Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2005 Posts: 312	as said 2 times this is from over torque of the barrel to frame. smith should replace this for free or a small fee to transfer serial number to new weapon. and dont tell them you were shooting +p in this weapon they will say so sorry your screwed.

June 6, 2006, 10:40 AM	#8
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I did as instructed and called Smith & Wesson this morning and the guy told me to send it in. He said they'd analyze it, see what it'd take to fix me up and call me back with the options. Gee, I sure like that little titanium 342PD!

June 15, 2006, 03:42 PM	#10
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	SEVEN days after my Model 38 was sent, my gunsmith called and said my NEW Model 638 was waiting for pick up! Shoots great! My hat is off to S & W customer service. I'm impressed.

June 15, 2006, 04:15 PM	#11
357 Plato Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Posts: 178	Taking your hat off and all that, I take it you got it free of charge? If yes: Wow Nice little revolver by the way

June 15, 2006, 05:16 PM	#12
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	Yep,,,, free. Well,,, the shipping was $48. No sweat!

June 15, 2006, 07:59 PM	#14
Svarthek Junior Member Join Date: June 15, 2006 Posts: 10	I'm impressed with that support. Nice replacement.

June 16, 2006, 12:19 PM	#16
Fer Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2005 Location: Honduras, Central America Posts: 360	Delzo!!, You lucky you!!! what a beauty, I bet you felt bad after shooting those 5 +Ps and messing up your revo, but how do feell now!!!!. How much did you pay for the 1950 38? plus $48, that is the cost of that brand new beauty!!. Does it have a lock?? I heve never seen that darn lock, I hear everyone talking about it, can you post a pick of the other side if it has a lock please. I bet that if does have a lock it cant messup the looks of that nice little revo. For free I cant believe it, some guys have all the luck!

June 16, 2006, 12:27 PM	#17
NRC Member Join Date: August 31, 2000 Posts: 17	the lock is shown in the pic - its that little black dot right above the cylinder release. - __________________ Train hard.

June 16, 2006, 02:16 PM	#18
delzo Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2005 Location: Knee deep in Galveston Bay Posts: 144	I contacted customer service by phone. 1-800-331-0852. I don't remember the guy's name I spoke to but he was very pleasant and I have no reason to think everyone would not be treated the exact same. Yep, the black hole above the cylinder release is the lock. It came unlocked and will stay unlocked! I'd say the whole ordeal was pretty good since I only gave $250 for the Model 38. I was pretty bummed at first but see how lucky I was now. The 638 is actually easier to shoot with the larger grips it came with. The tiny ones on the Model 38 was tough to grip with my large hands. It wanted to twist in my grip. I am more than satisfied!

June 16, 2006, 03:18 PM	#19
Detective_Special Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2004 Posts: 293	M638 I've found S&W service to be outstanding, I needed a higher front sight on my 3914 9mm. When I called customer service to find out what was available, they had all the info, from the different heights to the proper installation. All the info provided in the same day by E-mail, and delivered ( in Canada) to my door within the week. Which brings me to your beautiful 638, looks great. Congrats

June 16, 2006, 04:10 PM	#20
Fer Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2005 Location: Honduras, Central America Posts: 360	Well that lock aint as bad as I tought, from all the fuzz I´ve heard I tought it looked like one of those antic key holes used in middle age locks seen in movies. Is it similar to the Taurus lock? is it just placed on the side instead of the hammer? does it use like a hex key?

June 16, 2006, 04:30 PM	#21
NRC Member Join Date: August 31, 2000 Posts: 17	Fer - yup its on the side instead of the hammer. i have the same 638, and love it. first thing I did was make sure it was unlocked, then throw the key in the safe where I can find it if I ever trade it or decide to use it... Not to open a can of worms - when sw first started issuing these locks, I was more than a little annoyed with them. seems like a gimmick to me i feel like some folks will take the lock as a substitute for responsible handling likewise if you are responsble in the first place then items like these aren't required... anyway, they are great pistols and I got over my initial issue with the lock, and I just choose not to use it. Its a great ccw / backpacking / tacklebox piece. regards - Nate __________________ Train hard.

June 16, 2006, 09:27 PM	#22
GreenFlash107 Member Join Date: June 16, 2006 Location: North GA Posts: 87	Delzo, you made out like a bandit. Very nice replacement. As for the Lock, small price to pay for what you ended up with.

June 16, 2006, 11:32 PM	#23
Glockamolie Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 359	WARNING - just a thought... If you shot those 40-year-old Plus Ps, couldn't this have something to do with it? I know there's a lot of old ammo that still gets shot, but some powders are unstable over time, or so I've read. But, then again, I've read a lot of things. __________________ Brandon

June 18, 2006, 05:39 AM	#24
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Glockamolie, in a word, no. BTW, powder gets weaker, not stronger with age. I've fired ammo loaded in WWII, only issue was misfires. As posted, it was a manufactoring error. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/