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June 15, 2006, 10:49 AM | #1 | |
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Just a "Minor Setback" for Fourth Amendment Rights
Fox News breaking Story....looking for more on it now.
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June 15, 2006, 11:04 AM | #2 | |
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Detailed Overview:
http://docket.medill.northwestern.ed...ves/002753.php Quote:
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June 15, 2006, 11:06 AM | #3 | |
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noto bene...the crux of the argument:
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Rich
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June 15, 2006, 11:13 AM | #4 |
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It's Will Get Worse Before it Gets Better
There is no such thing as a "minor" setback for ANY of the rights enumerated in the BOR. Its guarantees are directly responsible for more human freedom than those contained in any other single document in the history of man.
I haven't read the opinion yet, but I'm under the impression is says "It's wrong to bust in without knocking, but we're not going to suppress the evidence because that's just too severe a sanction". WITHOUT severe enough a sanction to deter it, such violations will explode. There are a LOT more reasons to excoriate the decision as well. Did those five wise Solons also explain the implications of this fine decision for the Castle Doctrine? Or announce ITS new parameters? I doubt it. Say the Police get the wrong house. If you try to defend yourself, which is your absolute !#$$##$%^ right, you will die. My guess is that the new policy is: "Submit to wrongfully exercised power or die". A "free" country? What is happening to us?
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June 15, 2006, 11:18 AM | #5 |
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In a police state - why should the police have to knock?
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June 15, 2006, 11:19 AM | #6 |
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June 15, 2006, 11:21 AM | #7 |
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Huge Libertarian here but I gotta ask:
If a judge has issued a warrant and probable cause has been demonstrated....why is it 'unreasonable' to crash the gate? I personally don't have an answer for that.
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June 15, 2006, 11:23 AM | #8 | |
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nagant-
The title of the thread is sarcastic. From what I can glean, the argument hinged on "inevitable discovery"; ie: that the Police would have discovered the crack rocks in the perp's pocket anyway, had they not violated his rights. Well, of course they wouldn't have. He'd have flushed them. Most readers here, I suspect, will call it a "good" ruling", because they see its ramifications only in light of the conviction one crack user. They will fail to see the doors this opens to other situations. GoSlash- Good point. By the same logic, they caught the guy "red-handed". Why even have a jury trial when a Judge might just as easily hear argument, convict and sentence? Quote:
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June 15, 2006, 11:24 AM | #9 |
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Slash, it's unreasonable because not all warrants are obtained legally, and not all warrants are accurate. Ask anyone who's been murdered by SWAT JBTs who kicked in the wrong door.
Oh wait, you can't ask them, because they're dead.
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June 15, 2006, 11:35 AM | #10 | |
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June 15, 2006, 11:39 AM | #11 |
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And the underlying theme why we sacrifice our 4th Amendment rights against warrentless searches and seizures????
The narcotic laws in this country in almost every court justified police intrusion! Do away with these silly drug laws and we'll be a much more free society. |
June 15, 2006, 11:59 AM | #12 | |
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June 15, 2006, 12:01 PM | #13 | |
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June 15, 2006, 01:35 PM | #14 |
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June 15, 2006, 01:39 PM | #15 |
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Rich,
It's not logic. It's an honest question. How, exactly, is it a violation of my civil liberties if the police execute a warrant against me without knocking? I'm inclined to agree with Martigan here; the people who suffer from not knocking first are ultimately the cops themselves. Somebody crashes into my house like that without announcing themselves....well, let's just say I'm a dead man and I'm not alone.
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June 15, 2006, 01:51 PM | #16 | |
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June 15, 2006, 01:59 PM | #17 | |
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- How exactly is it a violation of your rights to muzzle you if you're engaging in "Hate Speech"? - How exactly is it a violation of your rights to have Full Gun Registration if you're law abiding? - How exactly is it a violation of your rights if .gov chooses to use your spare bedroom to quarter a soldier, so long as they pay you rent? - How exactly is it a violation of your rights to demand strip searches of "suspicious" characters at the subway station? - How exactly is it a violation of your rights to try you without allowing you to face your accuser, so long as the Judge "knows you're guilty"? That's BoR 1-5. Need I do 6-10? Rich ps: The answer: It's a violation of your rights because it can easily be abused but the most minor functionary; it's a violation because it puts .gov above its Master.
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June 15, 2006, 02:06 PM | #18 |
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I have just finished reading the full story and all I can say is that it is taking most of my willpower to not go off my meds, move to a cabin in the woods and start writing manifestos.
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June 15, 2006, 02:07 PM | #19 |
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I would have thought the publisher of SWAT mag would have applauded the ruling. Good to see I would have been mistaken.
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June 15, 2006, 02:10 PM | #20 |
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Does it actually say in the fourth amendment that--- A warrant must be preceeded by a knock on the door?
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June 15, 2006, 02:21 PM | #21 |
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Contender-
What it says is: "...no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." But we have long since dropped those standards. Why should the traditionally required knock stand in this time of Perpetual War? I assume you ask from a position of enlightenment, yes? You do know the history of Warrants as they led to the requirement to Knock, followed by No-Knocks, followed now by what may well be "Never Knock"? Rich
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June 15, 2006, 02:22 PM | #22 | |
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June 15, 2006, 02:24 PM | #23 |
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The problem, as I may have metioned before, is the nebulous nature of the 4th amendments determination of reasonableness.
One mans reasonable is anothjer mans unreasonable. The key then is drafting a statue that is constitionally acceptable state and federal and gives detailed guidelines. Compare Chapter 35 of the Alaska Code of criiminal Procedure (woefully nebulous) to NY CPL 690 (somewhat more detailed). WildpolicelikeguidelinesAlaska |
June 15, 2006, 02:25 PM | #24 |
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Clearly the appropriate response is for us to have stronger doors. Whether or not we have anything to hide. By the way, who said, "Live free or die?"
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June 15, 2006, 02:28 PM | #25 | |
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Lot of door busting going down in the 1920s WildnotthatiamoldenoughtorememberAlaska |
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