What's Up With The Colt Bashing and Boyycotting???

[Unckie Bub]

What is it with all the Colt bashing??? Boyycotting??? For Christ Sakes...Dont everybody remember what in the hell they went thur just to keep there doors open???
Damn Liberial Lawyers and people who think "Guns" kill people are the cause behind Colt's thinking towards the public.

If you were stock holder or Owner of the company..

What would you do???

Were damn lucky to have what we have from such a historical gun maker.

What is your view on this...http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/americas/471003.stm

Regards...

[Eghad]

UB, the date on that article is 1999.........

Sunday, October 10, 1999 Published at 22:04 GMT 23:04 UK

Our Congress has sinced passed laws on firearms law suits to protect against such.

[Unckie Bub]

Yes I understand exactly that but People still kicking there doors down. Saying this saying that..

One of the lasT "Truely American Companies" and we Americans are still kicking the mud off there tires after they ran away..

Guess I dont understand..

[Eghad]

I dont either because Colt is still selling Pistols and some Revolvers and folks are buying them.

[Unckie Bub]

Goes further then just pistols...They hitting the AR 15 and everything about the company..its all over this forum...

We as a people, as a country have to stop this!!! I truely feel in my Heart it will be the demise of our great nations industry!!!
.
We lost Winchester here in USA. Good ole NAFTA!!!
We are about to lose GM...Ford is dying and well Chrysler, Whirlpool is gone! To name a few............

When we going to wake up...my my..



Thanks for Input...

[Eghad]

There have been negative opinions on a lot of firearms and companies posted in this forum.

If American companies are making products that dont sell is it the public's fault? I dont feel obligated to keep Winchester or Colt in business. I feel that it is Wnchester's or Colt's obligation to make a product that I want to buy that is a good value for a fair price.

[Eightball]

If American companies are making products that dont sell is it the public's fault? I dont feel obligated to keep Winchester or Colt in business. I feel that it is Wnchester's or Colt's obligation to make a product that I want to buy that is a good value for a fair price.

Amen to that. Colt is expensive, and from what i've heard, has some relatively spotty Customer Service. That, and they can't make up their mind if they want to be military-only suppliers, or civilian suppliers as well (though, that's more for the longarms). However....I see nothing wrong with a legit Colt, other than the price.

[croyance]

We lost Winchester here in USA. Good ole NAFTA!!!

Your hysterics have poor aim. Were people buying Mexican or Canadian products that replicated the Winchester line? How many Winchesters were you buying each year? Why not blame gay marriage? Just as irrelevant.
Make a good, usable product I want.

[aspen1964]

..I don't buy new guns period..because the vintage guns have what I like..so I don't support any foreign gun-makers either....nor do I have any desire to buy a foreign-made gun..IF by chance American gun companies began making something with the style and quality of yesteryear that appeals to me, I will be looking in the new department instead of used department...I like non-blocky, non plastic-framed, non-warning inscribed, finely polished blued firearms...

..and I don't particularly like Japanese cars or trucks..neither...one problem is the business mentality of today's business world...pride of a name on a product isn't what it used to mean....it's more of how cheaply-made a product you can convince the consumer to buy..not paying for better quality..and the consumer doesn't appreciate truly fine qaulity like yesteryear...more interested in squeezing money..even for lesser quality...

...there are a handful of American companies that still try to do this in an ever-chintzy world..but their numbers are getting smaller every year...more than anyone else..I wish that 'Made in USA' meant what it used to...If Americans don't support America than who will????

[Sarge]

Colt makes a real decent product these days; I just reviewed a 1991A1 which was about as good as you could hope for. Good finish, no malfs, sub 4" 50 yard groups- and it shot to the sights. This from their 'price point' model, to boot.

Colt's has been their own worst enemy in some regards. Just about the time the nationwide CCW blows wide open, what do they do? Drop their bread & butter CC guns, instead of bringing out an all-business model (like the Cobra perhaps?) sans the locks and Jimmy Neutron emblems that keep me from buying a S&W. Winchester is another prime example.

Of course I don't run their business, but it would be a damn shame if they went under. I felt that way about Winchester too.

But the market drives the product.

[pumpkinheaver]

In my opinion the problem with colt is that you can get better products for the same or for even less money from other manufacturers. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna pay a bunch extra just because the name colt is stamped into the slide.

[Eightball]

Hey Aspen--buy Uberti. Yeah, they're italian, but their 1873 replica's parts will fit in an original 1873---how's that for authentic?

I doubt that american companies can make good products anymore, on average. Unions came along and demanded higher pay, safer work environments where they wouldn't die, etc (just minorly important). Gov.t comes along and increases price of regulating things (take the way you dispose of bluing salts, for example), and regulates more things. Your product is in a competitive world of knock offs, so you can't raise the price (unless you're Colt), and you're already making minimal profit. In order to survive, do you A) more meticulously make a better product, for which you have to pay for skilled labor and slow sales, B) cut corners and stay in the US, or C) move outta the country with cheap labor and no "regulation"? Just some thought.

As for "cheaper made products that don't last as long".....nowadays, in the penny-conscious world, companies are using computers to calculate exactly how much steel they need to just pass muster. Compare that to, say, the millions of k98s out there, that were over-engineereed to withstand parade grounds, conscripts, wartime conditions, etc etc etc that are still working fine today. "Oldie but goodie" has merit, even in the firearm world.

But the market drives the product.

That right there could be argued as the culprit for the "evils" behind many brands. Whose to say that economics isn't to blame for Colt's price and thus, "Colt-Bashing"?

I'll get off my soapbox now, hope I didn't offend anyone.

[Majic]

That article is not only old, but from the British of all people. Just what do they know about the American gun market?
Colt has had problems for a few decades and worrying about lawsuits was the least of them. Colt has been fighting financial and management problems since the 1980s and it all has caught up with them now. They are still in the commercial market since they still make the 1911s and SAA, but it's the double action revolvers that they have given up on. They still made a quality product and some of them at prices that did compete in the market, but the market favored other manufactors. The King Cobra equaled or exceeded S&W, Ruger, and Taurus medium framed revolvers, but was out sold by the M686 and the GP-100. The CCW market was addressed with a new and improved Detective Special and the new Magnum Carry (for all those who wanted powerful small guns), but they to were out sold. With money troubles and your product not selling well you have no choice but to get out of the market.
Military contracts have continually been a big part of Colt's business since the Civil War so you can't really fault them for focusing on that market as that is their real "bread and butter".
Now I am a Colt fan and have been one for many moons, but to be honest I see no more or even new Colt bashing that have been going on for the last 20 or so years. The 1911s need work out the box for them to even shoot, the Python goes out of time and is way to expensive, the SAA is not only too expensive it's to delicate, Bushmaster and others build a better AR-15, and on and on. I most likely have heard it all and now since so many models are out of production it's becoming common to hear how all Colts are getting too expensive to own even though that is not true. Certainly the like new models are skyrocketing for collectors purposes, but there are still thousands of battle scarred workhorses out there for decent prices.

[18DAI]

I like Colt's. I have a few, and if they would come back out, with a revolver, I think they could clean up. I'd love a few new revolvers. I just wish someone would make a traditional one I could buy.

I don't get the idea that I should prop up manufacturers, who produce products, that I neither like, nor need. If a manufacturer makes products that nobody wants, they should go under. Adapt to the market or go away. There's always another manufacturer who will pay attention, and produce a product the market wants. So, Sig Sauer, whens that lock free, one piece barrel revolver coming out? Regards 18DAI.

[PinnedAndRecessed]

A) The article is ancient history. Worthless for consideration.
B) Who cares what the British think? About anything?
C) Decaf coffee will taste just as good as the high test you appear to be drinking.

[Sarge]

Well P&R, you are right about the first two- but decaf sucks.

[WESHOOT2]

I have no loyalty to any gun brand other than Caspian ('cause they're best, AND local, see?).
I have no interest in 'reputation'.
I don't care squat about 'looks' (exception: womens ).
I don't care about 'historical significance', 'American legend', or 'what our fathers used'.
I really don't.

I care only for function.

As I wandered the gunshops I'd touch a Colt 1911 and come away less than impressed (I still remember hanging around friend's shop, guy comes in to pick up his ordered-new Colt, takes it from the box, rattling barrel-flopping junk, back to Colt for a 'swap'. Was there again the day this same guy came back! to pick up his 'new' new Colt; worse than the first. Took his money back and left. I then had an opportunity to examine #2 (oh how descriptive) and see his concerns, like barrel fit from 8th-grade shop class, sharp and overhanging edges, I mean worse than my Witnesses ).
Sad.

Management and union labor in the adversarial position, I'm sure.
NO excuse, though. Make me want to buy your prodfuct through superiority, not 'history'.

I would most certainly buy a Colt product if they were to offer something that fit my need.
I keep hoping.....

[Tamara]

What "Colt bashing and boycotting" are you talking about? Are we even reading the same forum?

Last I checked, Colt AR's and 1911's were some of the best and most often recommended guns in their respective classes.

[Unckie Bub]

Hmm, If I was to use a American article would that have made a difference??? I think not. It was put on there for ease of reading.
I'll do better next time...as long as you KEY IN ON WHATS BEING SAID...not the authors.
Also Yes it a older article, but NYC is still fighting over sueing Colt and others even so if congress has past those laws. I heard speak of it the other day about a NYC Judges comments about so on MSNBC.

Again SCREW the liberials and there pissy media.. Still doesnt give any solid grounds for us shooters or gun owners to bash or boyycott Colt! They want all the companies to go belly up!!

I enjoyed reading also about how some of us american workers whom seem to be two faced and we will make the products but wont buy the products we make cuz there is a better deal out there in a import...there must be a hidden message or agenda there I missed as a American consumer! Perhaps this is the cause of all the outsourcing the American companies are doing now..I can see (BIG BUSINESS) thinking here....Hmmm cant beat em...Join em??? That issue will have to take place in a different subject line...

I think in a nut shell "WeSHOOT2" has basicly the out look of most towards all the Colt bashing...
Colt's QC practices not so long ago and he states some good pointers That I also remember. Inturn tho, them practices dont exsist on the Colt pistols today. Guess we are hard to forgive once we been had once or twice.

But he didnt bash em...Colt that is...he said he didnt care for anything but Caspian!

Nevertheless sure got some attention on this topic..

Hope it continues a bit longer...

BTW: Hold the coffee turns yer teeth yellow..Make mine a Diet Coke with some Nitro-Methane!!

Enjoy yer shooting weekend whats left of it.

~UB~

[Unckie Bub]

I am not going to stick anyone person out TAM...

Root around you will see it.. just look down the page here....

Yer right tho...they are some of the best...I love em dearly!!

~UB~

[ChrisTx]

If American companies are making products that dont sell is it the public's fault? I dont feel obligated to keep Winchester or Colt in business. I feel that it is Wnchester's or Colt's obligation to make a product that I want to buy that is a good value for a fair price.

couldn't agree more. i carried two 1991A1 orm colts for duty guns. they were reliable, accurate, and morst importantly, affordable. when i was allowed to carry 1911s on the street again, i figured i knew where to turn. unfortunately for me, colt released the nrms and decided right before my purchase that they were worth $200-$300 more, and that was if you could find one. i'm buying duty guns, not show pieces. my new springfield GI has been every bit the colts were, so i have no reason to send colt anymore of my money. they no longer make anything i'm interested in. apparently they shut down their R&D and marketing departments to save money. they have nothing new or appealing, and their prices are way out of whack.

another issue i have is their customer service is at the lower end of the industry. i have 3 colleagues who required colt service. not only does it take forever, but you might get it back with a new problem that wasn't there before. they don't take care of your guns when they have them.

colt is putting themselves out of business.

[hpg]

Unkle Bub,

I think what part of the problem is that Colt has always been a little higher priced than the rest of the gun manufacturers. I know they are supposed to make a higher quality firearm, which I will argue with on some of their 1911's. I have had several issues with a few of them.

I have made a post or 2 recently about someone wanting advice ona some rifle made by CZ vs. a Ruger 77 Varmint rifle, boy did I get flammed for mentioning Ruger and trying to get the CZ fixed under warranty. It has happened several times when I mentioned buying American made firearms.

Yes I own Glocks and an XD9, that is the only foreign produced firearms I own. Only because the reliability is above average on any US made semiauto.

I think it all boils down to price anymore, not just with Colt but all manufacturers. This is why the import cars have done so well here. The US automobile industry had gotten into the disposable car sundrome for several years and people were tired ot it.. My .02 worth. hpg

[jhco50]

The annomosity towards Colt goes back to the 70s-80s when Colt all of a sudden decided to quit selling guns to the public. They had several contracts with the government and felt that they were set. They made a big deal out of there decision and made the shooting fraturnity rather irritated, ok POed. That is when their troubles began. A few years later they revealed their work on the smart gun. They were working with the enemy. I really think they were expecting us to lose the gun ownership fight. In any case, they had insulted their consumer base and they quit buying from them. As part of the first salvo at the public, Colt quit making production guns and you could only buy from the custom shop at higher prices. A couple of years later they lost the contracts with the government for manufacturing the M-16s. This was finacially crippling for the company. The company has had problems ever since.

[johnbt]

They quit selling guns to the public in the '70s and '80s? I thought they introduced the Series 80 guns then. I keep seeing guns from the '70s & '80s for sale. I'm confused.

John

[Heist]

As a public service, I am proud to present an English Language translation of "Unckie Bub's" posts.

What is it with all the Colt bashing? Boycotting? For Christ's sake, doesn't everybody remember what in the hell they went through just to keep their doors open?

Damn liberal lawyers and people who think "Guns" kill people are the cause behind Colt's thinking towards the public.

If you were the stockholder or owner of the company, what would you do?

We're damn lucky to have what we have from such a historical gun maker.

Yes, I understand exactly that but people are still kicking their doors down, saying this, saying that.

One of the last "truly American companies" and we Americans are still kicking the mud off their tires after they ran away. Guess I don't understand.

It goes further than just pistols. They're hitting the AR15 and everything about the company. It's all over this forum.

We, as a people, as a country, have to stop this! I truely feel in my heart that it will be the demise of our great nation's industry!

We lost Winchester here in the USA, thanks to NAFTA! We are about to lose GM, Ford is dying, and Chrysler and Whirlpool are gone, to name a few.

My, my, when are we going to wake up?

Thanks for the input.

If I were to use an American article would that have made a difference? I think not. It was put there for ease of reading. I'll do better next time as long as you key in on what's being said, not the authors.

Yes, it's an older article but NYC is still fighting over sueing Colt and others, even if congress has passed those laws. (?) I heard about a NYC judge's comments about that on MSNBC.

Again, screw the liberals and their urine soaked media. They don't give any solid grounds for us shooters or gun owners to bash or boycott Colt. They want all companies to go belly up!

I also enjoyed reading about how some of us American workers seem to be two faced and will manufacture products but will not buy products made in this country because an import may be a better deal. There must ba a hidden message or agenda there that I missed as an American consumer!

Perhaps this is the cause of all the outsourcing the American companies are doing now? I can see big business thinking here, "Hmm, can't beat them, join them?" That incoherent rant will have to take place in a different thread.

I think in a nut shell "WeSHOOT2" has basically the outlook shared by most people towards all the Colt bashing. Colt's quality control practices were indeed slipping not so long ago and he states some good pointers that I also remember.

In turn though, those practices don't exist within Colt today. I guess we are slow to forgive once we have been had once or twice. But he didn't bash Colt, he said that he didn't care for anything but Caspian!

Nevertheless, this topic certainly got some attention. I hope it continues for a bit longer.

By the way, hold the coffee. It turns your teeth yellow. Make mine a Diet-Coke with meth!

Enjoy your shooting weekend, or what's left of it.

I'm not going to point out any one person, blonde goddess of the gunshop. Look around and you will see it, just look down the page here.

You're right though, they [Colt] are some of the best, I love them dearly!