Long-range handgunning. Useful or just for show?

[marlboroman84]

I was reading an article earlier in one of my gun mags that was lying around and found an article about long range handgunning. I thought I'd get some perspectives from all of you on the subject.

I always hear alot of people say they got such and such group at 25 yards or 50 yards with a handgun and it kinda makes me wonder what the point is? Now, I'll definitely say it's impressive to run a target out to 75 feet and get a 1 inch group, but what really is the purpose of this?

In my range drills I shoot at no more than 50 feet. Generally, the target stays between 15 and 30 feet. I'm a really good shot at these distances and not terrible at farther distances, but I fail to see a self-defense type application that makes a case for being able to shoot at football field distances.

I don't want anyone to think I'm downing long ranging. I'd just like some feedback as to why you do it and what some good applications are for training at long distances with a handgun.

Regards,
Chuck

[Ben Shepherd]

I hunt with my hadguns. So, I shoot clear out to 200 yards.

Useful? Sure. I've put a few hundred pounds of venison in the freezer that way.

Not to mention- When you start consistently hitting your targets wwaayyy out there, shooting them with a scoped rifle gets boring.

[marlboroman84]

Thanks Ben. So that's one I should have thought of is hunting. So hunting and competition are practical, but what about for defensive purposes?

Please no one come back with a sniper in a tower and you gotta take him out with your .45. I wanna keep this in the real world lol.

[Ben Shepherd]

If you can hit at 75-100 yards, hitting at 20 feet is a lot easier, no?

Although the loads I hunt with are not for urban defense carry. Way too much penetration.

[marlboroman84]

If you can hit at 75-100 yards, hitting at 20 feet is a lot easier, no?

Like I said earlier I'm not downing practicing it. I'm just curious if there is a real need for it. Is this something that should be taught heavily in handgun classes? Granted if you can hit at 100 yards you should be able to hit at 20, but not always. I'm talking about for real-life scenarios what would be some PRACTICAL applications of long range handgunning.

Again I say, I'm not downing it. I'm just asking about it.

[sterno]

Actually, shooting long range with a handgun doesn't make you as better as you'd think at hitting short range targets.

I shoot fairly long range (100 yards) with my Ruger, but 25 yard shooting is awful mainly because it's sighted in for 100 yards. I guess a .357 bullet does some moving and shaking in 75 yards. Sometimes for fun I shoot my Makarov at the 100 yard targets. It has fixed sights so when I come back to the 25 yard line, I haven't improved that much. I think it's because I have to adjust my point of aim to compensate for wind and bullet drop at 100 yards and it's different at 25.

Overall, long range handgun shooting has made me a better shooter. It's made me abit more steady and really got me thinking about the bullet and it's relationship between the muzzle and the target.

[Candiru]

I find that as I get better with handguns it helps to move the targets out farther so that I can see what I'm doing wrong. It also helps stave off the tendency to achieve a satisfactory level of skill at a certain distance and cease to pursue improvements. Plus, it's always fun to go back to an earlier distance and see how easy it now is.

[Majic]

There is more to handgun shooting than self-defense. It's a shame that so many people fail to see other reasons for shooting a handgun. Everything doesn't have to be practical. Some things are done just for fun.

[JJB2]

ya like shooting ihmsa matches!! if you like long range handgunnig this is the game for you.........

[RevolverLover]

I also hunt with my handguns and shoot some informal silhouette matches.

[Samurai]

Long range can, in some instances, become relevant in self-defense of third parties. An example is if your loved one is across the yard/field/parking lot/whatever and being assaulted. In this case, you may need to make a shot at long range to protect them.

In general, you will operate your handgun at that which you perceive to be your "effective range," be that at 5, 15, or 150 yards. If you train to shoot targets far away, then you will be willing and able to engage a threat at those far distances. But, if you do not train regularly at distance, then you will not engage the target at distance. Rather, you will attempt to close the distance to your target until you achieve your personal "effective range."

Summary: Training in pistol marksmanship makes you a more effective weapon. It's good.

[marlboroman84]

Thanks Samurai. That was more the answer I was looking for.

Majic, I see your point, but if you read over my first 2 posts I clearly state that I understand the reason for doing it in competition and hunting or just for fun. My question was is long range handgunning something that everyone who carries a gun should devote a large amount of time to or is it a smaller percentage.

I constantly read statistics and reports that say "the majority of attacks happen in 3-5 seconds and within 21 feet". I'm not saying long range handgunning is useless. I'm just curious as to what portion of your time at the range should be devoted to shooting at distances upwards of 50 feet?

[Samurai]

There are multiple answers to that question, Marlboroman. Your training time should push your limits as a handgunner. If you are the kind of shooter that can place shots accurately at 50 feet, then ALL of your training time should be spent shooting at greater than 50 feet. If you can't hit a silouette at 5 yards, then you don't need to devote ANY time to shooting at more than 50 feet.

The point isn't to try to shoehorn everyone into a one-size-fits-all training regimen. Rather, your training should challenge you, personally. If you hunt wild Wombat at 200 yards with a handgun, then I would practice shooting baby Wombat at 220 yards.

Me personally, I'm gonna practice shooting a silouette at 10 yards. That's about right for me.

[BoneDigger]

Consider that there are more than one type of animal that you may have to defend yourself against. You mentioned hunting earlier, but I use my pistol as a backup while hunting, but not as the primary weapon (I hunt with archery).

Now consider, let's say I shoot a wild boar with a bow and arrow and then start to approach that boar from a distance. At 25 yards, the boar jumps to his feet and starts to charge. I better dang well hope I don't wait until he is 15 ft before making a shot.

Consider attacks by wild dogs or trained defense dogs. Again, better hope to get that first shot off well in advance of 15 ft, or you may not have a chance at a second shot.

Rabid dog? I don't want one of those ANYWHERE NEAR ME!!!

Bears, lions, BigFoots (Bigfeet?), chupacabra, mountain lion?

Todd

[HiBC]

How about for fun ? If I can hit at 200 yds with a handgun and nobody else is watching,its not for show.
It is hard to imagine someone at 200 yds is going to meet the legitimate self defense criteria unless they are shooting at me with a rifle.
I just don't spend much time watching those cartoons.I shoot for fun and practice.I have some iron that is a comfortable tool in my hand.Has been for 30 years.When I Kentucky all the front blade,the ramp,and part of the barrel for elevation and fling a chunk at a rock on the next mountain,it feels good to only miss by a foot or two.Doesn't have to be for show,I can be by myself.And the rock is just a rock,not a "bad guy".A 200 yd clay pigeon is satisfying from a field position.Its just a target.

[BillCA]

marlboroman,

Obviously if your purpose is self-defense, then you won't be practicing at ranges of 100 yards or longer. Even 75 yards is something of a stretch.

The 25 yard range has been a "standard" pistol distance for many generations for match shooting. In reality, 25 yards is not that far. It turns out that 25 yards (75 feet) is a good representation of some common distances you may encounter.

Take a few minutes to do an exercise. First, measure your stride. For me, a long stride is 3-feet or 1 yard (plus/minus 2 inches). Next, pace off the distance from your front door to the street. Or from curb to curb on your street. Also pace off the distance from the front of your house to the rear or side to side. Lastly, pace off the distances inside your home, such as the hallway to your bedroom, the distance from the front door to the hallway or kitchen, etc.

I live in a townhome complex and the streets, curb to curb, are about 12 yards (36') wide. From my front door to the curb is about 20 yards (60'). The distance from one corner of the house to the other (plus fencing near the driveways) is about 22 yards (66').

Indoors, it's 7 yards from front door to kitchen. The short hallway is only 3 yards long. So about 10 yards from front door to bedroom door, plus/minus.

This will give you an idea of distances you can eyeball around your home and neighborhood. Shooting from my front door to the curb is 20 yards, however if I have to shoot to the far side of the street, that's actually 32 yards. That's a distance where I want to be able to hit an 8" pie-plate.

Parking lots are another place you can judge distances and it may be easier to do than you think. Figure each "standard size" parking stall is 8' wide. Length will vary some, but figure about 18' to 20' long.

Now, in your favorite parking lot, stop by your vehicle parked in a slot and look down the row of parked cars. How far away would you want to be able to shoot a BG in that lot? 3 Cars? That's 24 feet or 12 yards. 6 Cars? 48 Feet or 16 yards. If you can make hits at 25 yards that's a little over 9 car stalls way.

Go the other way too. From the row you're on to the other row is about 40 feet or 13 yards. In a simulated "drive by" the target vehicle will be about 16 yards away and the driver another yard. Because the width of parking lot aisles varies, figure at least 15-18 feet wide, so taking a shot across the next asile to someone near a driver's door is going to be about 63 to 66 feet or about 21-22 yards.

All these exercises do is show you that focusing your training on distances from 0 to 15 yards will be inadequate for some of the common distances you see every day.

[Jkwas]

Yes, of course. Recall the final part of "Blazing Saddles" when the Waco Kid squeezed off a shot to set off the dyneemite and blew up all the bad guys!

[GoSlash27]

I shoot out at that range because the berm is out at that range. If I happen to miss, I can see exactly where my shot went. It also helps instill an "aim small, miss small" mentality. A torso target at 200 yds is pretty darn small

The downside to doing this is it can cause you to start focusing too much on accuracy at the expense of speed.

[Majic]

How much time you devote to what you call long range shooting is up to the individual. I know some who enjoy the challenge and others who hate it (they generally aren't very good at it). I think everyone should at least give it a try. It's just something else you can put in your little bag of skills. You are only placing limits on yourself by not learning.

The downside to doing this is it can cause you to start focusing too much on accuracy at the expense of speed.

Not always true. As the closer target will be much larger and your basic shooting skills are honed because of the long range shooting you can snap off a quick shot accurately without much thought.

[clayking]

I do it because I like it. If I like it, then it makes me happy, therefore, it feels a need. There's my purpose.

Shooting a target at 15-50 feet for self-defense might be worthless also unless the target is moving and shooting back. When you can simulate that, then you are practicing self-defense. So, I would ask, what's the use of shooting at short distances over long?...........................ck

[Ausserordeutlich]

I consider self-defense as just a potential "plus" for my handgunning hobby. If you get in a real bind, mindset will govern the situation, to a large degree. I shoot my handguns out to 100 yds, just because I shoot a lot and find shooting repeatedly @ 7 yards to be REALLY boring.

I don't have to convince myself that the rounds that I put downrange have any potential self-defense applications.

[bigautomatic]

Marlboroman- it sounds like you are asking if there is a point to practicing self defense shooting at long range. If you think you could ever be in that situation in real life, then why not? But most folks (not all) that you see shooting SD type handguns at longer distances are just honing their skills or just having fun. Or both!

[JJB2]

samurai i'm thinkin that your shooting across a river or whatever to defend someone just wouldn't hold up in todays courts........ you just might find yourself rotting in prison somewhere..............

[tony pasley]

Ishoot long distance for fun and to get to know my weapon better. point shooting close range up to 10 yards front and full sights 10 to 25 yards, 50 to 100 yards are to know my weapon and myself better and it feels great to hit at those distances. Just my IMO.

[azredhawk44]

I practice the longer distances with everything but my .22 pistol.

If I am going to carry it, I wanna know what it does out to my own limitations and out to the cartridge's effective range. My current goal (not yet fully acheived) is to be proficient with all my guns out to 100 yards. XD9, redhawk, sp101... whatever.

The other day I hit a crow at about 50 yards with my redhawk.

I was out in the desert this past summer, blasting away with my xd9, shooting at a 12"x12" sheet metal plate at about 75 yards. ping! ping! ping! ping! I'd miss maybe one out of every five shots or so, and it was my arm getting tired or something else in my form that caused me to miss.

Learning what the sights on a pistol do out past 25 yards is really interesting... the xd9 requires a significant hold-under to be on target, while the redhawk's gold bead typically will cover the target directly.